The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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No. Its mostly considered foolishness by those who are perishing.

Only to those who are saved, regenerated, believe, is it the Power of God.
According to your beliefs, no one lost can understand anything from Scripture.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Roger.

What do you tell someone who says the theology derived from scripture is unbiblical?

I look at it and try to find the reason someone would say that. Its obviously biblical. So there must be some other reason to state a lie like a lot of people have done.

So what is the reason for the lie? It obviously goes against peoples self-will. People don't like that.
I would rather not say something is biblical or not and try to push it in someone’s face
no matter what side of the debate you are on
I am sure u have done it before and I hope someone stopped Me
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The dangerous road is the belief that someone is saved and born again before hearing the gospel of their salvation.
Who says this?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Not hearing.

You can hear all you want.

Understanding and receiving is what I am talking about. The dangerous road would be saying, against scripture, that you understood and received the Spiritual things of God, by your own wisdom and your own understanding.

Everything from God is a gift. A man can receive nothing unless it is given from heaven.
Here we go

If people would understand we both agree with this. We just disagree on when and how God gives us this wisdom enlightens us
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What was it that showed the man he needed to be rescued in the first place?

His own wisdom and understanding? Or was it REVEALED to him by God?

If it is the mans own wisdom and understanding, and the man has to have this wisdom and understanding in order to "choose" God then only the Wise and Knowledgeable can be saved.

If it is God who reveals to man his poor condition WHICH LEADS TO HIS SALVATION, then Salvation truly is not of works, nor of mans wisdom or understanding. But wholly of God.


Not sure why this is so controversial to Saved Christians... Why can't God be in Charge? And why can't we just simply be grateful for the gifts and blessings He has bestowed on us?
It was revealed by god

It can be done without having to regenerate a person. I believe god has that power to act as a spirit to convince if sin righteousness and judgment. I know he did me
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
No. Its mostly considered foolishness by those who are perishing.

Only to those who are saved, regenerated, believe, is it the Power of God.
That has justification happening after regeneration. It has a man made alive in sin. Then having his sin forgiven

That is the main issue
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,000
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It was revealed by god

It can be done without having to regenerate a person. I believe god has that power to act as a spirit to convince if sin righteousness and judgment. I know he did me
Scripture says that the natural man cannot receive what the Spirit of God is giving him. Not only that but the natural man cannot understand the things that are spiritually discerned.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Scripture says that the natural man cannot receive what the Spirit of God is giving him. Not only that but the natural man cannot understand the things that are spiritually discerned.
Paul is stating that those who rely on human wisdom instead of the spiritual truths brought by the inspired apostles will see the cross as foolish and perish as a result.

The same in 1 Cor2:14.

The contrast in context is human wisdom and divine revelation .. the access point is divine revelation ... hearing the Gospel, not human wisdom... since the Gnostics thought they could know god through human wisdom.

Context.. what did Paul's audience need to understand!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Uhhh, Scripture. Do you believe you were born again before you even heard the gospel?
That’s not what I asked. I asked who believed one can be saved and never heard the gospel
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Scripture says that the natural man cannot receive what the Spirit of God is giving him. Not only that but the natural man cannot understand the things that are spiritually discerned.
They can’t unless god acts

Like he did me. He does not have to make me alive first he just has to help
Me understand. It’s up to me what I do with that understanding if I do not want to believe no matter what God does. I will Never believe
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,000
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They can’t unless god acts

Like he did me. He does not have to make me alive first he just has to help
Me understand. It’s up to me what I do with that understanding if I do not want to believe no matter what God does. I will Never believe
I think you can choose to believe what you think are theories. Like the theory of relativity and the theory of evolution. And for some, the theory that Christ existed and exists.

I don't think you have any choice when it comes to facts. Once you know something as a fact you can't un-know it or pretend you don't know it.

But that's just my theory...:LOL:
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
859
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How about this thought.

Another member posted about (1 Cor. 2:14):

"what scripture is presumed to teach. " But the unsaved man cannot receive Jesus nor the Gospel of God:for it is foolishness unto him : neither can he know it ,because it is spiritually discerned. NSV ( Non scriptural version. )
Here we see this verse used to teach the Calvinistic idea of ' regeneration precedes faith ' And the T in TULIP . But let's look at what the verses actually say . "


Because if they teach what they clearly seem to say, then those in opposition to salvation being all of God, are once again in trouble. This is why we are having this circular discussion about this one area of Scripture and many others. A discussion that on one side needs to prove, "natural man" means something other than what it does.

Whether you want to call it Calvinism or Free Grace, etc... there are too many Scriptures to ignore, or try to explain away. Why not just let Scripture speak and then do your best to harmonize these two great points of Salvation.

On one side:
1) Does Scripture teach being Chosen? YES
2) Does Scripture teach Election? YES
3) Does Scripture teach that there is God given Faith? YES
4) Does Scripture teach Predestination? YES
5) Does God know the exact number of Believers in the end? YES

On the other side:
1) Does Scripture teach that God demands everyone to Repent? YES
2) Does Scripture teach that the Gospel is offered to everyone without exception? YES

Finally, Does Scripture teach that God takes no pleasure in pouring out His Wrath? YES

NOW, Harmonize these facts, without doing damage to either.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
How about this thought.

Another member posted about (1 Cor. 2:14):

"what scripture is presumed to teach. " But the unsaved man cannot receive Jesus nor the Gospel of God:for it is foolishness unto him : neither can he know it ,because it is spiritually discerned. NSV ( Non scriptural version. )
Here we see this verse used to teach the Calvinistic idea of ' regeneration precedes faith ' And the T in TULIP . But let's look at what the verses actually say . "


Because if they teach what they clearly seem to say, then those in opposition to salvation being all of God, are once again in trouble. This is why we are having this circular discussion about this one area of Scripture and many others. A discussion that on one side needs to prove, "natural man" means something other than what it does.

Whether you want to call it Calvinism or Free Grace, etc... there are too many Scriptures to ignore, or try to explain away. Why not just let Scripture speak and then do your best to harmonize these two great points of Salvation.

On one side:
1) Does Scripture teach being Chosen? YES
2) Does Scripture teach Election? YES
3) Does Scripture teach that there is God given Faith? YES
4) Does Scripture teach Predestination? YES
5) Does God know the exact number of Believers in the end? YES

On the other side:
1) Does Scripture teach that God demands everyone to Repent? YES
2) Does Scripture teach that the Gospel is offered to everyone without exception? YES

Finally, Does Scripture teach that God takes no pleasure in pouring out His Wrath? YES

NOW, Harmonize these facts, without doing damage to either.
Good post
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
16,178
7,976
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If you don't believe the T then you end up having men giving God help in Salvation.
No. You end up denying the power of the Gospel. And unless you yourself had obeyed the Gospel, you could not have been saved.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
On one side:
1) Does Scripture teach being Chosen? YES
2) Does Scripture teach Election? YES
3) Does Scripture teach that there is God given Faith? YES
4) Does Scripture teach Predestination? YES
5) Does God know the exact number of Believers in the end? YES

There is only one side.


NO a certain group are not chosen while others are not,
NO certain people are not elected while others ore not,
NO God does not predestine a favoured few while others are not,
NO God does give faith after regeneration

All the terms of Calvinism like election, predestination, chosen etc are not the biblical meanings of the words.

It is very clear that God is desiring that all should come to repentance and belief but not all do.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:3-4).
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
No. You end up denying the power of the Gospel. And unless you yourself had obeyed the Gospel, you could not have been saved.
And this is the exact truth of it, they would not be saved unless they chose to obey.