The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

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throughfaith

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Arminianism departs from Calvinism in a couple crucial points.

I tried to read Arminius writings but I just couldn't get into it. I have a hard time reading stuff that I know is incorrect.
I agree . The issues are seen when you completely lay aside both systems ( 5 points of calvinsm and the 5 points of Arminism ) Arimianism s weakness is that its calvinstic presuppositions influence the least problematic elements . They both agree on the T so straight away there s going to be a problem. Jacob / James never quite figured it out .He was taught under Beza ( hard-core calvinist) before his issues surfaced with calvinsm ,but is never quoted as disparaging towards calvinism ultimately nor does He leave the calvinist ' hive ' . I believe both systems are a 'in house ' squabble .
 

Grandpa

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I agree . The issues are seen when you completely lay aside both systems ( 5 points of calvinsm and the 5 points of Arminism ) Arimianism s weakness is that its calvinstic presuppositions influence the least problematic elements . They both agree on the T so straight away there s going to be a problem. Jacob / James never quite figured it out .He was taught under Beza ( hard-core calvinist) before his issues surfaced with calvinsm ,but is never quoted as disparaging towards calvinism ultimately nor does He leave the calvinist ' hive ' . I believe both systems are a 'in house ' squabble .
Yes. Kind of a what came first the chicken or the egg argument.
 

ForestGreenCook

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These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13)

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. (1 Peter 1:23-25)

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. (Rom 10:17)

It is TOTALLY ABSURD to claim that anyone receives the Holy Spirit without FIRST having repented and believed on Christ. Which means that TULIP is absurd.
All of mankind cannot hear, John 8:43, John 10:26-29, John 8:43, & 47, John 10:3, Rom 11:8,
 

Grandpa

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I agree . The issues are seen when you completely lay aside both systems ( 5 points of calvinsm and the 5 points of Arminism ) Arimianism s weakness is that its calvinstic presuppositions influence the least problematic elements . They both agree on the T so straight away there s going to be a problem. Jacob / James never quite figured it out .He was taught under Beza ( hard-core calvinist) before his issues surfaced with calvinsm ,but is never quoted as disparaging towards calvinism ultimately nor does He leave the calvinist ' hive ' . I believe both systems are a 'in house ' squabble .
If you don't believe the T then you end up having men giving God help in Salvation. You end up causing some scripture to contradict other scripture in order to get rid of T.

In order to not have this happen you have to start out with T. And, as you have seen, once you have the T the rest falls into place....
 

throughfaith

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If you don't believe the T then you end up having men giving God help in Salvation. You end up causing some scripture to contradict other scripture in order to get rid of T.

In order to not have this happen you have to start out with T. And, as you have seen, once you have the T the rest falls into place....
The Calvinst understanding of Total depravity/ inability is what I reject but is shared by Arminains also .
 

throughfaith

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If you don't believe the T then you end up having men giving God help in Salvation. You end up causing some scripture to contradict other scripture in order to get rid of T.

In order to not have this happen you have to start out with T. And, as you have seen, once you have the T the rest falls into place....
With respect you just made my point . This is why Arminism is a branch of Calvinistic thinking, and it is wrong for all the same reasons that Calvinism is wrong. I used to think I was maybe a 3 point calvinist but by the time I was done looking into it , I realised we don't want to be an ' any point calvinist. All 5 are unbiblical . If a system is led by its strongest point, but that point is wrong ( T ) then naturally everything that cascades from that will be off also .
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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If you don't believe the T then you end up having men giving God help in Salvation. You end up causing some scripture to contradict other scripture in order to get rid of T.

In order to not have this happen you have to start out with T. And, as you have seen, once you have the T the rest falls into place....
Do you believe one must have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit first before they understand Scripture, specifically the gospel of Jesus Christ?
 

crossnote

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Arminianism is a branch of Calvinistic thinking, and it is wrong for all the same reasons that Calvinism is wrong.
Mainly Rome sees them as from the same branch, the Reformation branch, that rebelled in the 15th century.
Is that what you are saying?
 

throughfaith

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Mainly Rome sees them as from the same branch, the Reformation branch, that rebelled in the 15th century.
Is that what you are saying?
No . Just from studying both systems.
I would lump Catholics and Lutherans into the mix and track it all back to Augustine.
 

crossnote

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Do you believe one must have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit first before they understand Scripture, specifically the gospel of Jesus Christ?
It's the Holy Spirit that first must convict one of their sin in order to see 'their need of a Savior.
 

crossnote

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No . Just from studying both systems.
I would lump Catholics and Lutherans into the mix and track it all back to Augustine.
When it comes to the article of Justification, Rome and Lutherans are on 180 deg. opposite poles. Many Evangelicals are closer to Rome today than the Lutheran were during the Reformation.
 

throughfaith

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When it comes to the article of Justification, Rome and Lutherans are on 180 deg. opposite poles. Many Evangelicals are closer to Rome today than the Lutheran were during the Reformation.
Absolutely. On justification . But I don't think Luther fully escaped rome any more than Jacob left calvinsm . The issue we have today is ,why are people still following these systems ? why do we have people following these men ?
 

John146

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It's the Holy Spirit that first must convict one of their sin in order to see 'their need of a Savior.
Yes, but do you believe one must be regenerated first by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
 

Grandpa

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With respect you just made my point . This is why Arminism is a branch of Calvinistic thinking, and it is wrong for all the same reasons that Calvinism is wrong. I used to think I was maybe a 3 point calvinist but by the time I was done looking into it , I realised we don't want to be an ' any point calvinist. All 5 are unbiblical . If a system is led by its strongest point, but that point is wrong ( T ) then naturally everything that cascades from that will be off also .
They're not unbiblical.

The rejection of the points of Calvinism is unbiblical.

I'm not saying that Calvinism is perfect. But TULIP is completely biblical.

People who reject Calvinism don't do it because it is unbiblical. They reject it because they don't like its implications.
 

Grandpa

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Do you believe one must have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit first before they understand Scripture, specifically the gospel of Jesus Christ?
Yes.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
 

throughfaith

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They're not unbiblical.

The rejection of the points of Calvinism is unbiblical.

I'm not saying that Calvinism is perfect. But TULIP is completely biblical.

People who reject Calvinism don't do it because it is unbiblical. They reject it because they don't like its implications.
I'm fine with ' implications ' so long as its true . But all 5 points are demonstrably false ,therefore I reject them , not because I'm a lesser mortal that cannot swallow ' hard truths ' . No I cannot believe them because there not biblical .
 

Grandpa

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I'm fine with ' implications ' so long as its true . But all 5 points are demonstrably false ,therefore I reject them , not because I'm a lesser mortal that cannot swallow ' hard truths ' . No I cannot believe them because there not biblical .
They are biblical. Very easily shown.

The reason you can't handle these biblical truths is because you don't want to believe the bible is against your own philosophy.

But it is.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Inability. Shown in one verse.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


I'm sure you have seen these scriptures before....
 

John146

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Yes.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
So, basically no one before the cross could grasp anything from God. The disciples did not have the Holy Spirit. In your view, they could not grasp anything Jesus was telling them. Is this accurate?
 

Grandpa

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So, basically no one before the cross could grasp anything from God. The disciples did not have the Holy Spirit. In your view, they could not grasp anything Jesus was telling them. Is this accurate?
That's one BIG assumption. Not one I would make.

How could you read the Psalms and think no one before the cross had the Holy Spirit?

But yeah. The disciples rarely understood anything the Lord told them. Until after His crucifixion and resurrection.