The Battle for the Beginning

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G

greatblue

Guest
#1
First, how can the invent of the Internet not be a sign that the end is near. I have spent a few hours reading and researching varying accounts of Genesis, which includes alternative views on creation, Adam, a supposed "8th day", theories that the commandment of not eating from the tree and fruit was actually a commandment to not commit "adultery" with Satan, which leads to allegations that Cain's father is Satan, and just a whole slew of other minority views. I say this because almost all of these study sites begin with some type of hook purporting, "Christians have forever been taught false myths and half-truths about what really happened in the beginning and we're writing this study to open your eyes to the real truth!" And they all go on to include numerous passages citing false teaching and false Christs, and Jesus' call to watch out for these things. Now...and I want to just assert this point here--it is 2012 and these alternative views are contrary to, not only what I have been taught/understood, but what centuries of men following God with the trust of a child have believed as God's word. And, what has passed down from the beginning. So, this being said, somewhat outlandish tales coming toward the end...well, shouldn't that strike a warning sign?

So the first issue is Genesis 1's account of creating the Heavens and the Earth and supposed 6th day creation of all races, and then 1000 "Earth orbit" years (where He rested on the 7th day), and then a separate 8th day of creating Adam in Eden. Now all of these sites/studies I've viewed also either publish it as fact that original sin is Eve's adultery with Satan, or as "this is our opinion". So the push to dispel an actual tree of knowing Good v Bad & Right & Wrong in favor of a metaphor for Satan being the tree and his "semen" being the fruit. Which Adam partook of as well, so I guess there's our homosexuality in Eden that I had never heard of before...but hey "it's all happening". So...wait...where are the other races from 1000 years earlier? Was it still just that one generation, because from Adam to Noah God's Spirit carried man's lifetime in the 900 year range...but only because of sin and death. So...the other races are "free from sin"? And, as much as these authors try to use scripture..their entire idea is through human narrative. It's all "God did this" and "God did that" and "God would never have done this" and "Carbon dating shows..." I mean...it feels heavily world-influenced and a "new agey" attack at the foundation. But...there were just so many purported ideas where I could see human error stamped all over and things that didn't even make sense. And I would be happy to draw up arguments to any points of these individuals...scripture-based of course and in a thread dedicated to it (like this one). But until then I have nothing scrtiptutal to argue/defend.

So I am just going to just come right out and say it...I have sinned before. Yep. And, there have been times when I have sinned and because of the sin, hid from God. I have and He knows. I hope I won't ever again and may say I won't ever again...but I'm a "Peter". But, the guilt and shame of sinning can produce two results...continue to sin in self-destruction, or immediately confess, repent and present to God. For option A, it really depends on how long you try to hide your sin...which equates to how far you will wander from Him. Obviously, option B is His desire for us that we may experience His grace, love, and mercy...and victory over death, including sinful inclinations. Now I bring this to light because when I read these ideas purported I feel like the rabbit hole just drifts further away from God as the attempt to "re-create Genesis" goes on. And, it scares me for those/these people because they are teaching/spreading something that...well...I haven't heard. I've traveled many countries, and lived full-time in both American and Australia, and I've attended many churches and learned from many teachers...and they aren't holding the Genesis narrative that these 8 day people are. So what "gets" me is where this is coming from. Like...doctrine and theology is passed down through the church, from Jesus and the Apostles, to Luther and Calvin, etc. so where did this new fancy choose-your-own-adventure book come from? Well...I have read others say "God revealed/showed it to me." To which I usually respond, "And that is where you lost me."

Now...and I have rambled and if you as a CC reader have stuck with me, then thank you. I felt urged to write about this...though I have never had the relationship with God where I could say, "He told me to". I felt urged and I'm doing so with hopeful transparency that this isn't about me or pride/ego, but about a potential "weed" I see on the Internet that seems to be growing among christians in this millennium. Now don't get offended...and I'm "taking heed" (which is common language on these sites), but obviously the Internet is the world system pushing this "teaching", rather than "the church".

My final point. I prayed and asked God to give me wisdom, understanding, and faith while reading my bible, studying the alt. ideas being presented, then re-reading both, and always trying to be open. However, in the end, it is as it smelled to be at first, folly. I liken it to the fruit Adam was told not to eat. And, the final point that resonates with me is this. Such a site(s) causes confusion, possible tampering/deception/alterations to what God has established in the church through His word, which, if the authors of these ideas care to admit, presents a God who isn't sovereign or in control at all.

Praise be to the name of Jesus Christ, the way, the truth, and the life!
 

Ibe

Banned
Apr 29, 2012
78
0
0
#2
LOL, 38 views and nobody but me, oh my well our Father said many not a few,

First, how can the invent of the Internet not be a sign that the end is near. I have spent a few hours reading and researching varying accounts of Genesis, which includes alternative views on creation, Adam, a supposed "8th day", theories that the commandment of not eating from the tree and fruit was actually a commandment to not commit "adultery" with Satan, which leads to allegations that Cain's father is Satan, and just a whole slew of other minority views. I say this because almost all of these study sites begin with some type of hook purporting, "Christians have forever been taught false myths and half-truths about what really happened in the beginning and we're writing this study to open your eyes to the real truth!" And they all go on to include numerous passages citing false teaching and false Christs, and Jesus' call to watch out for these things. Now...and I want to just assert this point here--it is 2012 and these alternative views are contrary to, not only what I have been taught/understood, but what centuries of men following God with the trust of a child have believed as God's word. And, what has passed down from the beginning. So, this being said, somewhat outlandish tales coming toward the end...well, shouldn't that strike a warning sign?
Hi Great Blue,
If I may, There is a lot to the story flow of the three Earth Age’s, and why we are here today in the Flesh, the Sin in the Garden, First and foremost one needs to understand the simplicity our Father’s teaches, Please allow me to point to our Father’s , words, on these subject’s you have no understanding with.
Now we have already open up 6day creation man and woman, our Father rested 7th day,
Then "Man became a living soul" that’s Flesh, Spirit Man became a living Soul,
Again Great Blue I’m a 53 year old white male, with no education so please forgive me if I mess this up. But can you please tell me what these words mean to you (Man became a living Soul) Gen 2:1-7
My Brother when I was very young and my first Bible was gave to me, my grandpa said “Son” don’t ever forget the story flow of the 3-Earth Ages
Then I was told about the Sin in the Garden, Then I was told to read nothing but what’s written RED
So now I ask my next question tell me what these words mean to you?
John 8:43-44-45
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

This is Jesus Talking Great Blue Please explain for me.
Thanks
“Ibe”

 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#5
Matthew 13

35That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
 
Jul 12, 2012
933
2
0
#7
On the topic of the internet, knowledge has been increased.
Most of us now have little excuse for not using the internet to cross reference the mistranslations of scripture, and to delve as deep as we can into uncovering the meanings of words, symbols, names, etc. in scripture. False doctrines expose themselves when love for enemies becomes a "token gesture" instead of real love.

As we watch corrupt messages online, we are to discern the truth by their example. And they ALL have some part of the gospel wrong, sometimes all of it.

Elijah:

2 And the word of the Lord came unto him, saying,
3 Get thee hence, and turn thee eastward, and hide thyself by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan.
4 And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there.


And the "symbol of salvation" was revealed to him, saying,

Go away towards the "rising of righteousness", and hide in a place that is "cut off from religion", the one that is within sight of "death to self."
And you will "be refreshed" by being "cut off from religion."

And I have arranged for the "unclean prophets with unsavory calls" to be a learning experience for you.


All will be revealed.
 
May 25, 2010
373
1
0
#8
It is no surprise that people add to, and diminish from the Word of GOD, but they have to in order to come up with ridiculous interpretations of scripture: and no where is it more prevalent than in GENESIS 1. If we accept GEN 1 as the complete and perfect account of all GOD created and made (He even mentioned creating insects), then those who believe in 'angel creation' are without a witness to such, and cannot prove they exist. Did GOD not tell us ALL HE created and made, which we so summed up in GEN 2:1, or has the scriptures been misinterpreted? I tell you the TRUTH, Adam and Eve were the first angelic beings, having been created in the Image and after the Likeness of the LORD , which are man and light respectively (Ez1:26-28)! Furthermore, since Adam was the only one present when GOD spoke the Commandment to him (he was the only one created, according to scripture), he is the only person who could have told Eve what she quoted to the serpent, which she said GOD said, but, because it is not entirely true, had to come from Adam. This of course means the Adam is the devil (and the serpent who deceived Eve), because the Devil told the first lie (Jn8:44).

A third grader can read the bible and believe the simple truths in it, but the wise are confounded by it (IS28:13), and they are always making mountains out of mole hills. So, for those who believe in angel creation (apart from Adam and Eve), you are without foundation, and have been deceived.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#9
It is no surprise that people add to, and diminish from the Word of GOD, but they have to in order to come up with ridiculous interpretations of scripture: and no where is it more prevalent than in GENESIS 1. If we accept GEN 1 as the complete and perfect account of all GOD created and made (He even mentioned creating insects), then those who believe in 'angel creation' are without a witness to such, and cannot prove they exist. Did GOD not tell us ALL HE created and made, which we so summed up in GEN 2:1, or has the scriptures been misinterpreted? I tell you the TRUTH, Adam and Eve were the first angelic beings, having been created in the Image and after the Likeness of the LORD , which are man and light respectively (Ez1:26-28)! Furthermore, since Adam was the only one present when GOD spoke the Commandment to him (he was the only one created, according to scripture), he is the only person who could have told Eve what she quoted to the serpent, which she said GOD said, but, because it is not entirely true, had to come from Adam. This of course means the Adam is the devil (and the serpent who deceived Eve), because the Devil told the first lie (Jn8:44).

A third grader can read the bible and believe the simple truths in it, but the wise are confounded by it (IS28:13), and they are always making mountains out of mole hills. So, for those who believe in angel creation (apart from Adam and Eve), you are without foundation, and have been deceived.

Wait...what did I just read?
 

Ibe

Banned
Apr 29, 2012
78
0
0
#10
Wait...what did I just read?

LOL Thats really great and just what our Fathers warnnings are about, , Dude this is the problim Jesus said Many will come and they are right here for sure.

"Ibe"
 

Ibe

Banned
Apr 29, 2012
78
0
0
#11
First, how can the invent of the Internet not be a sign that the end is near. I have spent a few hours reading and researching varying accounts of Genesis, which includes alternative views on creation, Adam, a supposed "8th day", theories that the commandment of not eating from the tree and fruit was actually a commandment to not commit "adultery" with Satan, which leads to allegations that Cain's father is Satan, and just a whole slew of other minority views. I say this because almost all of these study sites begin with some type of hook purporting, "Christians have forever been taught false myths and half-truths about what really happened in the beginning and we're writing this study to open your eyes to the real truth!" And they all go on to include numerous passages citing false teaching and false Christs, and Jesus' call to watch out for these things. Now...and I want to just assert this point here--it is 2012 and these alternative views are contrary to, not only what I have been taught/understood, but what centuries of men following God with the trust of a child have believed as God's word. And, what has passed down from the beginning. So, this being said, somewhat outlandish tales coming toward the end...well, shouldn't that strike a warning sign?

So the first issue is Genesis 1's account of creating the Heavens and the Earth and supposed 6th day creation of all races, and then 1000 "Earth orbit" years (where He rested on the 7th day), and then a separate 8th day of creating Adam in Eden. Now all of these sites/studies I've viewed also either publish it as fact that original sin is Eve's adultery with Satan, or as "this is our opinion". So the push to dispel an actual tree of knowing Good v Bad & Right & Wrong in favor of a metaphor for Satan being the tree and his "semen" being the fruit. Which Adam partook of as well, so I guess there's our homosexuality in Eden that I had never heard of before...but hey "it's all happening". So...wait...where are the other races from 1000 years earlier? Was it still just that one generation, because from Adam to Noah God's Spirit carried man's lifetime in the 900 year range...but only because of sin and death. So...the other races are "free from sin"? And, as much as these authors try to use scripture..their entire idea is through human narrative. It's all "God did this" and "God did that" and "God would never have done this" and "Carbon dating shows..." I mean...it feels heavily world-influenced and a "new agey" attack at the foundation. But...there were just so many purported ideas where I could see human error stamped all over and things that didn't even make sense. And I would be happy to draw up arguments to any points of these individuals...scripture-based of course and in a thread dedicated to it (like this one). But until then I have nothing scrtiptutal to argue/defend.

So I am just going to just come right out and say it...I have sinned before. Yep. And, there have been times when I have sinned and because of the sin, hid from God. I have and He knows. I hope I won't ever again and may say I won't ever again...but I'm a "Peter". But, the guilt and shame of sinning can produce two results...continue to sin in self-destruction, or immediately confess, repent and present to God. For option A, it really depends on how long you try to hide your sin...which equates to how far you will wander from Him. Obviously, option B is His desire for us that we may experience His grace, love, and mercy...and victory over death, including sinful inclinations. Now I bring this to light because when I read these ideas purported I feel like the rabbit hole just drifts further away from God as the attempt to "re-create Genesis" goes on. And, it scares me for those/these people because they are teaching/spreading something that...well...I haven't heard. I've traveled many countries, and lived full-time in both American and Australia, and I've attended many churches and learned from many teachers...and they aren't holding the Genesis narrative that these 8 day people are. So what "gets" me is where this is coming from. Like...doctrine and theology is passed down through the church, from Jesus and the Apostles, to Luther and Calvin, etc. so where did this new fancy choose-your-own-adventure book come from? Well...I have read others say "God revealed/showed it to me." To which I usually respond, "And that is where you lost me."

Now...and I have rambled and if you as a CC reader have stuck with me, then thank you. I felt urged to write about this...though I have never had the relationship with God where I could say, "He told me to". I felt urged and I'm doing so with hopeful transparency that this isn't about me or pride/ego, but about a potential "weed" I see on the Internet that seems to be growing among christians in this millennium. Now don't get offended...and I'm "taking heed" (which is common language on these sites), but obviously the Internet is the world system pushing this "teaching", rather than "the church".

My final point. I prayed and asked God to give me wisdom, understanding, and faith while reading my bible, studying the alt. ideas being presented, then re-reading both, and always trying to be open. However, in the end, it is as it smelled to be at first, folly. I liken it to the fruit Adam was told not to eat. And, the final point that resonates with me is this. Such a site(s) causes confusion, possible tampering/deception/alterations to what God has established in the church through His word, which, if the authors of these ideas care to admit, presents a God who isn't sovereign or in control at all.

Praise be to the name of Jesus Christ, the way, the truth, and the life!
Great Blue,

First, how can the invent of the Internet not be a sign that the end is near. I have spent a few hours reading and researching varying accounts of Genesis, which includes alternative views on creation, Adam, a supposed "8th day",

Here how GB, 2,000 years ago we had the walking word, now we have the written word, and the sign of prophesy that quotes the End times wont come till the Good News is Preached all over the World!!! Praise God, the Net is doing this for sure. So your right my Brother it’s a sign "Prophesy.

Now for about 38 years now I’ve spent at least 2-hours a day, every Day In the Word. Witch includes the book of Genesis, and for about 8 years My TV stays on a network of the Gospel, Where the Gospel Teaching of our Fathers Word is Book by Book, Line by Line, Scripture by Scripture, Verse by Verse

So to me when you say things like you’re a Teacher and spent a few hours reading, and researching, I hear words like alternative views on creation Adam a supposed "8th day" , and in our other discussions you stated a spirit body lost you. I’m concerned

So with out the understanding of what happened in the beginning, how can you understand the end?

Well where’s the Battle? Please answer my two qwestions in the prev post

“Ibe”
“Ibe a Disciple Of Jesus Christ”
“Ibe In His Service”
 
G

greatblue

Guest
#12

I understand this to be God's account of His sixth day work forming man from His created matter, Earth in Gen 1:10 on the third day. Much like God's Spirit speaking "light" into existence, He "breathed" His Spirit of life into man, which resulted in man's living existence. Contrast with 1:10 in that God "speaks" Earth matter into existence, and the speaks plant life matter into existence, Gen 2:7 shows God "breathing" His spirit in man. This matches Gen 1:26, "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” How did He make man in His (Our) image and likeness, He breathed His (Our) spirit him. Gen 2:7 shows why the sixth day, and the forming of man (Adam) is so different from the rest of creation. Man wasn't spoken or called into existence...he was "formed", meaning fashioned/crafted, and modeled after God's own "I am". Isn't man the only creation who can literally echo that cognizant thought of self-realization?


What is your understanding of Gen 2:7? And where/how do you create an 8th day in Gen 2:4 that God Himself didn't. If God sets the precedent for "yoms", wouldn't He have to continue it. Because, if you really want to get down to reading, you see Gen 2:4 says "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground." Now, does this not flash us back to "when man was created", past tense, to the 6th "yom" to "detail" that awesome event of not just "speaking" mankind to be, but actually forming matter and putting His spirit into it. I already showed this link in "our image/likeness of day 6" to "His breath" in 2:7, and then this is done by God Himself in Gen 5:1-5:2. To try then and isolate 2:7 from 1:24 is folly, if you're reading 5:1.



Now, let me dispel this clearly, if I can. Genesis 1:27 uses three clauses of 6th day created man, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The semicolon separates the two clauses "created him"; and "created them". This is not a simultaneous act, by definition of the grammatical device. It is a clearly an articulated separation, though showing they are linked. Also, Gen 5:1 should dispel the "made" / "formed" argument.



Let me finally say that I take "day" to mean "day", as I take "yom" to mean day. There is a specific account, from God, of seven spoken "yoms", or days. I do not take anything from 2Peter 3:8 because it is taken from Psalm 90:4 which is not "yom". I cannot transfer Psalm 90:4 to Genesis 1-2 because its is an incorrect assignment of language. I take the standard creationist approach to understanding Genesis that God rested on the seventh day, which we observe now.



Ibe, you say you had this Earth age flow understanding passed down to you from a grandfather. Now, I would very much like to hear how this has been taught to you through the scripture. For example, if you look at what I wrote above, where is the error?


And...true blessings to you. I have been urged to dig, think, rethink, ask God more, praise Jesus Christ...and you're belief has spurred me on to test my own. Thank you. And apologies for overloading your very small question :eek:
 

Ibe

Banned
Apr 29, 2012
78
0
0
#13
I understand this to be God's account of His sixth day work forming man from His created matter, Earth in Gen 1:10 on the third day. Much like God's Spirit speaking "light" into existence, He "breathed" His Spirit of life into man, which resulted in man's living existence. Contrast with 1:10 in that God "speaks" Earth matter into existence, and the speaks plant life matter into existence, Gen 2:7 shows God "breathing" His spirit in man. This matches Gen 1:26, "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” How did He make man in His (Our) image and likeness, He breathed His (Our) spirit him. Gen 2:7 shows why the sixth day, and the forming of man (Adam) is so different from the rest of creation. Man wasn't spoken or called into existence...he was "formed", meaning fashioned/crafted, and modeled after God's own "I am". Isn't man the only creation who can literally echo that cognizant thought of self-realization?


What is your understanding of Gen 2:7? And where/how do you create an 8th day in Gen 2:4 that God Himself didn't. If God sets the precedent for "yoms", wouldn't He have to continue it. Because, if you really want to get down to reading, you see Gen 2:4 says "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground." Now, does this not flash us back to "when man was created", past tense, to the 6th "yom" to "detail" that awesome event of not just "speaking" mankind to be, but actually forming matter and putting His spirit into it. I already showed this link in "our image/likeness of day 6" to "His breath" in 2:7, and then this is done by God Himself in Gen 5:1-5:2. To try then and isolate 2:7 from 1:24 is folly, if you're reading 5:1.



Now, let me dispel this clearly, if I can. Genesis 1:27 uses three clauses of 6th day created man, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The semicolon separates the two clauses "created him"; and "created them". This is not a simultaneous act, by definition of the grammatical device. It is a clearly an articulated separation, though showing they are linked. Also, Gen 5:1 should dispel the "made" / "formed" argument.



Let me finally say that I take "day" to mean "day", as I take "yom" to mean day. There is a specific account, from God, of seven spoken "yoms", or days. I do not take anything from 2Peter 3:8 because it is taken from Psalm 90:4 which is not "yom". I cannot transfer Psalm 90:4 to Genesis 1-2 because its is an incorrect assignment of language. I take the standard creationist approach to understanding Genesis that God rested on the seventh day, which we observe now.



Ibe, you say you had this Earth age flow understanding passed down to you from a grandfather. Now, I would very much like to hear how this has been taught to you through the scripture. For example, if you look at what I wrote above, where is the error?


And...true blessings to you. I have been urged to dig, think, rethink, ask God more, praise Jesus Christ...and you're belief has spurred me on to test my own. Thank you. And apologies for overloading your very small question :eek:
Great Blue,

Thank You I'll post later to night as I;m heading to town.
God Bless
"Ibe"
 
G

greatblue

Guest
#14
I didn't see this question before...I'll try to be brief. This is my understanding. John 8:43-45 fully explains what the Jewish leaders didn't understand, that Adam's disobedience = a new spiritual & biological relationship with Satan. Adam exchanged the truth command of God for the lie of the devil, and the genealogical line was given over to Satan. Obviously, from 8:11 there is a great deal of back and forth, where the leaders accuse Jesus of various falsehoods: demonism, illegitimacy, false testimony, etc., to which Jesus simply reasserts His identity and authorship. Jesus speaks God's truth while the leaders spew satanic lies. Jesus calls back upon the fall in Genesis 3:11 where Adam was not able to listen to God's word. Satan injected lying into God's procreation model the moment he infected Adam and Eve, so that while yes the Jews could call Abraham their ancestral father, but in a spiritual sense, it couldn't be farther from the truth.

How does this match with your interpretation?
 
May 25, 2010
373
1
0
#15
I didn't see this question before...I'll try to be brief. This is my understanding. John 8:43-45 fully explains what the Jewish leaders didn't understand, that Adam's disobedience = a new spiritual & biological relationship with Satan. Adam exchanged the truth command of God for the lie of the devil, and the genealogical line was given over to Satan. Obviously, from 8:11 there is a great deal of back and forth, where the leaders accuse Jesus of various falsehoods: demonism, illegitimacy, false testimony, etc., to which Jesus simply reasserts His identity and authorship. Jesus speaks God's truth while the leaders spew satanic lies. Jesus calls back upon the fall in Genesis 3:11 where Adam was not able to listen to God's word. Satan injected lying into God's procreation model the moment he infected Adam and Eve, so that while yes the Jews could call Abraham their ancestral father, but in a spiritual sense, it couldn't be farther from the truth.

How does this match with your interpretation?
Bet you can't put chapter and verse to all the ridiculous things you and your fellow believers call the truth.
When Jesus told those people that the devil was their father, HE meant physically, as being his (the devil's) children, for HE spoke of the flesh and it's lusts. He also said the devil was to abide in the same, single truth that was given to Adam, which was the Commandment; but, since he (the devil) did not, he too must have eaten the 'forbidden fruit'.

Now, since Jesus said the devil told the first lie, and, since there was only one truth in the Beginning, this lie had to be about it (the Truth). But, when one compares what Eve spoke as being the TRUTH (Gen 3:2-3), with what the LORD GOD spoke to Adam (Gen 2:16-17), it is evident that what she spoke is not entirely true, because the LORD GOD made no mention of touching the fruit. Obviously then, because she is not the first liar, she is not the one who added the restriction about touching the fruit; but also, the person who told her this is the first liar, and it is the first lie ever told. She believed what she was saying was the truth, which proves she was already deceived: and not only because she mention touching the fruit, but she neglected to name the forbidden tree, and her reference to it is wrong because she referenced it as being the only tree in the center of the Garden, when in fact there are two (Gen 2:9).

According to my Bible, The KJV, Adam was the only creation of GOD which was formed in HIS IMage, that of a man, and after HIS LIkeness, which is Light (EZ1:26-28; 1Jn1:5); and Adam was the only person to whom the LORD GOD spoke the Commandment; therefore, Adam is the only person who could have deceived Eve from the Beginning. Sorry bro, you are the son of the devil, same as all men, except Jesus, because GOD is HIS father, which means HE (Jesus) is not under the serpent's curse.

Since you disagree, please show me chapter and verse by which you think you can prove me wrong. I'm willing to 'listen'. Or can you tell me why so little is said about the devil in all the old testament. Did GOD wish us to remain ignorant of HIS and ours arch-enemy?
 
G

greatblue

Guest
#17
Bet you can't put chapter and verse to all the ridiculous things you and your fellow believers call the truth.
Friend, have I struck you? I had overlooked a post where Ibe asked me what a verse meant to me. Now I have you, serpentslayer, calling me (and others, as if suddenly I speak for other people) ridiculous.
Eph 4:14, "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ"


I do not profess to know anything other than my full surrender of life now and beyond to the Lord Jesus Christ. Full stop.


When Jesus told those people that the devil was their father, HE meant physically, as being his (the devil's) children, for HE spoke of the flesh and it's lusts.
I agree that he meant "physical". Do you think He didn't also mean spiritual? If mankind was not "spiritually" bound relationally to Satan, Jesus wouldn't have to redeem us physically. Or am I wrong? When they cite Abraham as their father (John 8:39), they think they are speaking in a spiritual sense. But Jesus tells them they have no clue about anything "spiritual".

He also said the devil was to abide in the same, single truth that was given to Adam, which was the Commandment; but, since he (the devil) did not, he too must have eaten the 'forbidden fruit'.
I am not sure of what you mean here. Are you saying the devil was commanded not to eat from the same tree in Eden? Can you explain your understanding of Eden, sin, etc. in an expository sense for me. By asserting an inference, "he must have" I cannot just "believe" it.

Now, since Jesus said the devil told the first lie, and, since there was only one truth in the Beginning, this lie had to be about it (the Truth). But, when one compares what Eve spoke as being the TRUTH (Gen 3:2-3), with what the LORD GOD spoke to Adam (Gen 2:16-17), it is evident that what she spoke is not entirely true, because the LORD GOD made no mention of touching the fruit.
Well since God's command was given before He had even "formed" Eve? To Adam only. And, isn't there something to teach in Eve's response, one also taught by our Savior when it comes to obedience and sin.
Matt 5:27, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Did Eve know "touching" would lead to "eating"; was she trying to "resist" the devil? If you are going to insert inferences, I truly think we should infer that God also didn't want them "touching" that fruit (Matt 5:27-28). And, Eve never references it as the "only" tree in the midst of the garden in 3:3. Obviously, the tree of eternal life, also in the midst, is one they were freely eating from, which is covered in 3:2.


According to my Bible, The KJV, Adam was the only creation of GOD which was formed in HIS IMage, that of a man, and after HIS LIkeness, which is Light (EZ1:26-28; 1Jn1:5); and Adam was the only person to whom the LORD GOD spoke the Commandment; therefore, Adam is the only person who could have deceived Eve from the Beginning. Sorry bro, you are the son of the devil, same as all men, except Jesus, because GOD is HIS father, which means HE (Jesus) is not under the serpent's curse.

Since you disagree, please show me chapter and verse by which you think you can prove me wrong. I'm willing to 'listen'. Or can you tell me why so little is said about the devil in all the old testament. Did GOD wish us to remain ignorant of HIS and ours arch-enemy?
I don't disagree with that much. I don't think I ever really considered the "no touching" comment from Eve to be a lie that Adam told, that the devil used to weed his way in to corrupt man. I guess I would like to see the devil use that lie..."He did not say you cannot touch", to which she would have then touched and eaten. But he didn't. He only attacked God's command, "You will surely die." But, I definitely am thinking about this more. Thank you...

Praise be to Jesus Christ, my God.
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#18
SerpentSlayer, God lived with Adam and Eve, He dwelt with them. Walking and talking amongst them.

Think of this. If I lived with my parents, and I write to you explaining a conversation I had with my father, though it be accurate, it is FAR from a complete account of all of our conversations.

God dwelt with Adam AND Eve. Regardless of if the bible says God told Adam "this", we have no way of knowing all of the conversations that took place in Eden. God very likely brought up the fruit on more than one occasion, and at least once when Eve was present, I'm sure He thought it was important enough to reiterate. Even a daycare worker will tell all of the children the stove is hot.

 
May 25, 2010
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#19
SerpentSlayer, God lived with Adam and Eve, He dwelt with them. Walking and talking amongst them.

Think of this. If I lived with my parents, and I write to you explaining a conversation I had with my father, though it be accurate, it is FAR from a complete account of all of our conversations.

God dwelt with Adam AND Eve. Regardless of if the bible says God told Adam "this", we have no way of knowing all of the conversations that took place in Eden. God very likely brought up the fruit on more than one occasion, and at least once when Eve was present, I'm sure He thought it was important enough to reiterate. Even a daycare worker will tell all of the children the stove is hot.

But you can read what the LORD GOD commanded Adam, and you can clearly see that what Eve said does not agree entirely. You must not ASSUME GOD said anything to Eve, but her words are the proof she was already deceived. Why put your head in the sand? The story is simple because the TRUTH is simple: and it can be easily seen if one does not add to, nor diminish from, what is written.

Did GOD tell you all the LAW, or did you have to get it from someone else? Adam was the first minister of the LAW, and he was responsible for both the Garden and the LAW; so why should GOD have to be His own minister when HE had Adam? Again i say, since it is IMPOSSIBLE to deceive someone who knows and believes in any truth whatsoever, but Eve was deceived, then it is IMPOSSIBLE she knew the ABSOLUTE TRUTH (don't eat - period, but she did believe a perverted one. Furthermore, Adam is the only one who could have deceived Eve from the Beginning: for if he had told Eve the absolute TRUTH only, she could never have been deceived about it.
 
May 25, 2010
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#20
I am not sure of what you mean here. Are you saying the devil was commanded not to eat from the same tree in Eden? Can you explain your understanding of Eden, sin, etc. in an expository sense for me. By asserting an inference, "he must have" I cannot just "believe" it.


Well since God's command was given before He had even "formed" Eve? To Adam only. And, isn't there something to teach in Eve's response, one also taught by our Savior when it comes to obedience and sin.
Matt 5:27, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Did Eve know "touching" would lead to "eating"; was she trying to "resist" the devil? If you are going to insert inferences, I truly think we should infer that God also didn't want them "touching" that fruit (Matt 5:27-28). And, Eve never references it as the "only" tree in the midst of the garden in 3:3. Obviously, the tree of eternal life, also in the midst, is one they were freely eating from, which is covered in 3:2.




I don't disagree with that much. I don't think I ever really considered the "no touching" comment from Eve to be a lie that Adam told, that the devil used to weed his way in to corrupt man. I guess I would like to see the devil use that lie..."He did not say you cannot touch", to which she would have then touched and eaten. But he didn't. He only attacked God's command, "You will surely die." But, I definitely am thinking about this more. Thank you...

Praise be to Jesus Christ, my God.
We cannot infer (assume) GOD said anything about touching the fruit, quite simply because HE didn't. Sure it seems logical that not touching the fruit would also be a 'righteous' decree; but, on the other hand, since GOD never said this, it could also be a lie with a purpose, as i believe. Adam told her this so that after he got her to say that touching the fruit would lead to death, he would take her to the center of the Garden (for the first time ever), and touch the fruit first, thereby proving her wrong, and giving her reason to believe that maybe she could eat it also. This is the reason for the 'little white lie' which Eve was deceived by.

May GOD direct your study and prove my words are true, (excuse my boldness) for this truly is a revelation
from the LORD (2Thes2:3-8), and i am only a messenger who believes in GOD's WORD. i've called myself serpentslayer because by this revelation of 'That Wicked', who is the devil, we see he is just a man, and not a GOD, whereby we now have nothing to fear but our own sinfulness and disbelief, being the devil's own children. Now will you understand that the exclusion of the Serpent's seed in the Savior to come (Gen3) is the reason Mary has to be a virgin, by which man is the exclusion?