The bottomless pit, the sea, and the beast with seven heads and ten horns.

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louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#1
The beast who shall ascend from the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8 & 9:2, is the same beast who shall rise from the sea in Revelation 13:1. As such we then recognize these metaphors for something that will bring about the rise of the beast, and have the whole world worshipping the beast (Revelation 13:4).

Revelation 17:8 [FONT=&quot]The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 9:[/FONT]
2 [FONT=&quot]And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Revelation 13:1 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?[/FONT]
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
179
63
#2
The beast who shall ascend from the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8 & 9:2, is the same beast who shall rise from the sea in Revelation 13:1. As such we then recognize these metaphors for something that will bring about the rise of the beast, and have the whole world worshipping the beast (Revelation 13:4).

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 9:
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Do you have a comment or a question about these verses; or are you just pinning them up for us to look at?
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#3
Before going into what it is that will cause the beast's ascension that will have the whole world worshipping the beasts power, we need to see what events will have transpired on earth prior to the opening of the bottomless pit.
In Revelation 8:7 we see the first angels sounding/warning in which one third of earth's trees are burned, and all green grass is burned.
In Revelation 8:8 the second angel's sounding/warning shows something like a great burning mountain cast into the sea causing one third of earth's seas to turn to blood and killing one third of all marine life.
In Revelation 8:10 the third angel's sounding/warning shows a star burning like a lamp that falls on one third of earth's rivers and aquifers causing them to be poisoined and thereby killing many people.
In Revelation 8:12 the fourth angel's sounding/warning shows one third of the sun, moon, and stars being smitten, keeping one third of the light from these bodies from shining.

Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

If as in the case with the bottomless pit and sea from which the beast will rise we realize the descriptions in Revelation 8 as metaphors, we can then surmise what these metaphors represent by seeing what is currently transpiring on earth.
As to the first angel's sounding/warning we see that due to increasing global temperatures fire season in many parts of the world (i.e., California, Alaska, Australia, and others) is intensifying, covering greater swaths of territory, and lasting longer than previous fire seasons.
As to the second angel's sounding/warning we see in many parts of the world fertilizer runoff causing greater algae blooms in the worlds oceans and causing greater marine life die offs.
As to the third angel's sounding/warning we see in many parts of the world fracking operations poisoining fresh water rivers and aquifers.
As to the fourth angel's sounding/warning we currently see many cities that cannot see the light from the sun, moon, or stars due to industrial air pollution.

As the events in Revelation 8 then appear caused by fossil fuels, the fifth angels sounding/warning in Revelation 9:1 in which the bottomless pit will be opened indicates it as the power/energy that Satan will provide the beast causing it to rise from the sea.
Supposedly this power/energy from the sea will be a clean power source, thereby eliminating the damage that fossil fuels will have caused when the star/Satan provides the beast with the key to opening the bottomless pit.
This bottomless pit of energy is what will have all mankind worshipping the star/Satan for providing the beast with his power (Revelation 13:4).
Unfortunately, we see from the results in Revelation 9 that this power from the sea which science expects will be a clean source of energy, causes far greater damage than will have fossil fuels.

Revelation 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


 
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louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#4
So what is the power from the sea that will have the whole world worshipping the beast?
The holy grail for industry is and has been to obtain an unlimited amount of inexpensive energy in order to produce all the material goods/idols that mankind desires/worships (Revelation 9:20).
For many decades now science has been trying to unlock the secret to obtaining fusion energy.
Fusion is the same energy that powers the sun and stars.
To create fusion energy, hydrogen 3 atoms known as tritium are required.
The worlds oceans have a virtually unlimited amount (bottomless pit) of tritium.
However, fusion is currently impossible to create for anything more than a few seconds, and then at a greater expense of energy to produce than what the fusion reaction currently produces.
But when the levels of fossil fuel pollution in Revelation 8 are achieved, the dragon/the star Satan will then be cast to the earth (Revelation 12:9) where he makes his last stand by providing the beast with the key to opening this bottomless pit of energy that the sea will provide in order to produce fusion energy.


Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Revelation 12:
9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#5
Revelation 9:2 [FONT=&quot]And he opened the bottomless pit; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

The smoke of a great furnace.....Industry???[/FONT]
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#6
Revelation 17:8 This person is Satan. You know because he goes into perdition . He was around a long time.

Revelation 9:2 This is when Satan on earth, for the 5 months . Hes the king over the locust army. The names given there, in both hebrew and greek come from the base of perdition, or perish .
The smoke is symbolic of deception. Before the 6th Trump happens, he will confrim that coventnt with many for one week
Satan shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: It was a week of years, that was shortened to 5 months ..

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Whats happening here, are people are the greenery . Locust eat that . The deception is illustrated to show how effective Satan will be. Without the seal of God in the forehead, one will be stung with the miracles and lies from this army. Its a sting to the souls hurt.
God commands not to kill anyone in the chapter. The attack is upon the soul. Believer is warned here : because the Christian is the one with something to lose.


Revelation 13:1 Satan standing on the sea, observing and establishing the final beast of Daniel rise from the sea which is symbolic of the people and nations of the world.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The kings are explained further in chapter 17. They hate the whore. The whore were Christians .They burn her with fire. Remember Locust attack trees. trees burn .
Its an illustration in symbolic language , for what Satan will do to Christians when he gets here. Not to their body, but to their souls .




Revelation 12, explains the Dragon is Satan. Its how the system forms and works . He is the second beast its how the system works. Because they worship the Dragon.
Christ calls Him antichrist, or false Christ .



Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.




Who is able to make war with the first beast ? No one, because its a one world system. Everyone is in agreement ..Its Daniels 4th beast.



Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The desolate, is really desolator because its Satan replacing Christ, ( the true daily sacrifice ) with himself as antichrist ( False Christ )
at the 6th Trump . It goes from political to Religious .Because he claims to be the lamb slain . Again the daily sacrifice ceases . Another way to say that is Apostasy .
Paul explains in 2 thess 2. Satan has to do with the pit, If hes rising up, hes already on earth by the end of the 5th Trump. Then sets up as False Christ at the 6th Trump.

Christ returns at the 7th. No rapture in any of this .


 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#7
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was , and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


Satan was in the Eden .
Yet hes not here now : but in heaven as Rev 12 states as The Accuser .
Satan shall ascend out of the pit, ( Revelation 9:1, and 2, )
Satan will go to perdition"After the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the Lords Day ( the 1,000 years )

Satan is the son of perdition pretending to be Christ, that these verses warn about. Like in Luke 21 Mark 13, Matthew 24 etc,.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
158
63
#8
Revelation 17:8 This person is Satan. You know because he goes into perdition . He was around a long time.

Revelation 9:2 This is when Satan on earth, for the 5 months . Hes the king over the locust army. The names given there, in both hebrew and greek come from the base of perdition, or perish .
The smoke is symbolic of deception. Before the 6th Trump happens, he will confrim that coventnt with many for one week
Satan shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: It was a week of years, that was shortened to 5 months ..

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Whats happening here, are people are the greenery . Locust eat that . The deception is illustrated to show how effective Satan will be. Without the seal of God in the forehead, one will be stung with the miracles and lies from this army. Its a sting to the souls hurt.
God commands not to kill anyone in the chapter. The attack is upon the soul. Believer is warned here : because the Christian is the one with something to lose.


Revelation 13:1 Satan standing on the sea, observing and establishing the final beast of Daniel rise from the sea which is symbolic of the people and nations of the world.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The kings are explained further in chapter 17. They hate the whore. The whore were Christians .They burn her with fire. Remember Locust attack trees. trees burn .
Its an illustration in symbolic language , for what Satan will do to Christians when he gets here. Not to their body, but to their souls .




Revelation 12, explains the Dragon is Satan. Its how the system forms and works . He is the second beast its how the system works. Because they worship the Dragon.
Christ calls Him antichrist, or false Christ .



Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.




Who is able to make war with the first beast ? No one, because its a one world system. Everyone is in agreement ..Its Daniels 4th beast.



Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The desolate, is really desolator because its Satan replacing Christ, ( the true daily sacrifice ) with himself as antichrist ( False Christ )
at the 6th Trump . It goes from political to Religious .Because he claims to be the lamb slain . Again the daily sacrifice ceases . Another way to say that is Apostasy .
Paul explains in 2 thess 2. Satan has to do with the pit, If hes rising up, hes already on earth by the end of the 5th Trump. Then sets up as False Christ at the 6th Trump.

Christ returns at the 7th. No rapture in any of this .


another Shepherd's Chapel/Arnold Murray student.
sigh
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#9
Revelation 8 understand its the same idea, the soul of the people are being attacked. 1/3rd of the worlds population today identify as Christians . If the waters are turning blood, because of a star, Satan, hitting them, it means they die spiritually. No longer have Salvation. Because the hit was actually Satan claiming to be Jesus, and all the Christians believing he'll rapture them.

In light of this, read 1 Thess 5. Those who watch and know the signs of the time Christ gave, know its going to take many by surprise, Satan the thief stepping in , before Christ gets here, Because they want peace and safe doctrines .

Instead they'll all be a whore at after Satans through with them... Wait on Christ, to avert His Wrath.
 
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OtherWay210

Guest
#10
zone okay you recognize when people actually quote. bible.
If you're not into that, then just ignore this talk, because i posted scripture.
Im not here to talk about my church is better then yours or my doctrine is better then your doctrine .

People who have approached me with guilt by association tactics, ive never been able to get along with,.
So maybe you can go talk to someone else.

if you want to actually talk about the bible address the passages and stay on topic .
 
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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,081
2,332
113
#11
Happy New Year OtherWay210!

Revelation 17:8 This person is Satan. You know because he goes into perdition . He was around a long time.
Satan is not the beast who comes up out of the Abyss, but another fallen angel referred to as Abaddon/Apollyon which means destroyer. The scripture below states that at that time Satan will give the beast his power, throne and great authority. which demonstrates that the beast is another entity, another fallen angel.

" And the dragon gave the beast his power and throne and great authority."

"They worshiped the dragon who had given authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can wage war against it?”

"They were ruled by a king, the angel of the abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek it is Apollyon."

The scripture above has Satan giving the beast his power, throne and great authority, demonstrating that they are two separate entities.

As further proof of Satan and the beast being two distinct beings, scripture reveals that at the time when Christ returns to the earth the beast is thrown into the lake of fire, while Satan is thrown into and locked up in the Abyss:

"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

"He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete."

It is impossible for Satan and the beast to be the same being, since each one is sent to a different place at Christ's return. Furthermore, in order for Satan to be the beast, he would currently have to be in the Abyss, which we know is not possible because he is currently very active in the world.

Revelation 9:2 This is when Satan on earth, for the 5 months . He's the king over the locust army. The names given there, in both Hebrew and Greek come from the base of perdition, or perish .
The five months mentioned is the length of time that those demonic beings that resemble locusts are given authority to torment the inhabitants of the earth with their stings and has nothing to do with the shortening of that last seven years. Regarding the time being shortened, the meaning is that if that time of wrath was allowed to go on any longer than the specified time of 3 1/2 years, then there would be no one left alive on the earth.

The smoke is symbolic of deception. Before the 6th Trump happens, he will confirm that covenant with many for one week Satan shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: It was a week of years, that was shortened to 5 months ..
When the star/angel comes down and opens the shaft to the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, literal smoke will come billowing out of it, as well as those demonic beings. There is no reason to interpret the smoke as being symbolic, but as being literal.

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

What's happening here, are people are the greenery . Locust eat that . The deception is illustrated to show how effective Satan will be. Without the seal of God in the forehead, one will be stung with the miracles and lies from this army. Its a sting to the souls hurt.
The scripture which says "they were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads," is referring to literal grass, plants and trees, because that is normally what locust would do. However, these are not locusts, but are demonic beings that resemble locusts, as well as horses prepared for battle having something like breast plates of iron. These are not your garden variety locusts.

Scripture also demonstrates that they are intelligent, for they are told not to harm the grass, plants or trees, but only those who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Only those 144,000 who will have previously been sealed with the seal of God in Rev.7 will be protected from these demonic beings and their stings, since they are the only ones who will have been sealed. Everyone else will be exposed. Also, the stings that they inflict like that of a scorpion will be literal stings that torment the flesh and therefore it is not symbolic for stinging their souls. These will be literal demonic beings, that will come up out of the literal Abyss, their sole purpose being to torment the inhabitants of the earth with literal stings for five months.

It is also important to understand that this trumpet belongs to God's wrath and therefore the church will not be on the earth during that time.

The desolate, is really desolator because its Satan replacing Christ, ( the true daily sacrifice ) with himself as antichrist ( False Christ ) at the 6th Trump .
The "desolation" is in reference to the Woman/Israel fleeing out into the desert in the middle of the seven years when that abomination is set up in the holy place where she will be cared for during that last 1260 days which is that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns.

Christ returns at the 7th. No rapture in any of this
First of all, there is nothing in the context that states that Christ returns at the 7th trumpet. You would also have to ask yourself the question that, if Christ returns at the 7th trumpet, how then could he make the following announcement at the 6th bowl judgment, which takes place well have the 7th trumpet:

"Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

It demonstrates that Christ has not yet returned at the pouring out of the 6th bowl judgment. By the way, the beast comes up out of the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, not before. As for Satan, he is already on the earth and will not go into the Abyss/pit until after Christ returns to the earth to end the age.

"
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
106
63
#12
The beast who shall ascend from the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8 & 9:2, is the same beast who shall rise from the sea in Revelation 13:1. As such we then recognize these metaphors for something that will bring about the rise of the beast, and have the whole world worshipping the beast (Revelation 13:4).

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 9:
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The beast is Rome, the iron legs/toes and the 4th beast of Daniel 7.

Unless you get that, you just won't get it.
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#13
To Ahwatukee

What you've given us here, is your Commentary . You rely either so much on commentary, and seem to neglect a lot of scriptures. I cant write out the entire bible for you. Without all the words of God, the Bible and Christ Himself becomes a stone of stumbling .. More true in the last days, during the tribulation of Satan. Which No one will be raptures from.

When you say things like "" Rev 11:15 is not really about the last trump and Christs return"" . That bad fruit ..

Lets read it :
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

All can read this i assume ? ..So the only logical explanation for why one would not accept what is written here as its written, is because of a convoluted commentary convinces one to interpret this passage, rather then accept Christs words. No prophecy is given for Private interpretation !

The same problem arises as you apply the commentary to everything .

The "beasts" take on two definitions : Revelation 13 is clear . ( 1 )The world political system,
and (2) Satan himself as the second religious beast ( aka false Christ ).
The description is plain.

How can Satan be synonymous with the pit you ask ? Because Revelation 20 says it .. Do you take Christs' words in revelation for fact not ? Or do you interpret ? Because what im seeing is a resort to ignoring the Bible which define these passages for us ; in favor of a commentary .

Satan in his roll as fake Christ over the world ( The second beast of Revelation 13 )
doesn't come into effect until the 6th Trump.
You're reading in the 5th Trump when Satan has not yet been established in full as false Christ.
Christ warns about this in the gospels as well. Its not difficult .
The 5th Trump in Revelation 9 , is explained in Revelation 12, as Satan himself, is put on the earth to deceive the world. Im not going to get into the shortening of time, since you wont even acknowledge Christ said He will .
Michael explains, he has a short time as Christ also taught . Revelation 9 informs us of what exactly that time was shortened to .




You want us to believe this is a nondescript name Abaddon/Apollyon so that you can say well its some other angel ;
when the Bible plainly informs us the name means destroyer .

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.


The Prince of princes is Christ. Everyone should know that is who destroys Satan . Satan is the destroyer , and he himself ultimately will be destroyed in the lake of fire , that is what those names mean .

You also state that this is not using symbolic language to convey this, which beyond a confusing statement .

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.



Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.




Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.


Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.





Again without commentary, just reading the passage for what it says, The first beast is the political system Daniels fourth beast.

The second Beast is Satan in his roll as false Christ. Satan is himself as false Christ ( 2 thess 2 ) is in charge of that world system . That is eluded to before the second beast is mentioned with simply saying the worshiped the Dragon. Revelation 12 documents who the Dragon is beyond a shadow of any doubt.
its that simple .

Again, the beast is a roll or title Satan plays the second beast.. So when Christ gets here, Satan is not able to pretend to be false Christ 2 thess 2 and or God . Christ returns to dispel the lies. .Satan is placed into the pit, wile the first and second beasts deceptions are tossed into the lake of fire eluding to Satan himself who will Perish in the lake of fire .

To repeat all these titles are one individual Satan .
The dragon,
the false prophet,
and the second beast

:is Satan's counter to:
The Father,
The Son, and
The Holy Spirit.


Ill make one last comment, you said """the smoke that comes out of the pit cant be symbolic. ""

Only a commentary would tell some one otherwise.
The Symbolic language Revelation uses conveys teaching of the last days .

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.


Since the passage is comparing people to TRESS AND GRASS, what does fire do when it hits trees ?
Its not hard .
Its symbolic language for lies which deceive, to the hurt of the soul when that lie is about worshiping christ, who is really Satan in disguise .

The first comes from their Mouth. Just as the Sword of Christ, the living word comes from the Mouth of the True Christ..



If you want to believe, the passage is talking about locusts and real grass, then theres nothing i can do to help here. The rest of what you wrote is equally as confused...

Put down the commentary people . We are in the last days, commentary if you value that over Jesus words and definitions ;
then if you are here when these things go down, will set you up for apostasy to Satan.





Christ comes as a thief was a negative statement, for those who are ignorant about what He taught. 1 1 Thess 5, and Christ;s address to the churches, such as Sardis explains, you do not want to chant Christ comes as a thief. Because it was a negative.

When He said as a thief, it was done so with the back drop of all the teachings he taught concerning the SIGNS, that lead to his return, which describe Satan as the thief, stepping in calming to be Jesus to rapture everyone away .


Jesus NEVER said hes coming to rapture everyone before the trib so i come as a thief. Never said that.
 
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louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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#14
Who do you think these are in Revelation 11:18 who are destroying the earth, if not those who are destroying the earth through industrial pollution?

Revelation 11:18 [FONT=&quot]And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward [/FONT][FONT=&quot]unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest [/FONT][FONT=&quot]destroy them which destroy the earth.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
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#15
The beast is Rome, the iron legs/toes and the 4th beast of Daniel 7.

Unless you get that, you just won't get it.
If the 4th beast is Rome, then how does Rome devour the whole earth as indicated in Daniel 7:23?
The beast with ten heads who ascends from the bottomless pit to wage war against the two witnesses in Revelation 11:7, is to be destroyed, because his system of consuming/devouring of the whole earth's natural resources results in the earth's destruction (Revelation 11:18). Rome is not consuming/devouring the whole earth's natural resources causing its destruction.

Daniel 7:23 [FONT=&quot]Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]shall devour the whole earth[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces[/FONT]

Revelation 11:7 [FONT=&quot]And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.[/FONT]

Revelation 11:18 [FONT=&quot]And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward[/FONT][FONT=&quot] unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]destroy them which destroy the earth[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
106
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#16
If the 4th beast is Rome, then how does Rome devour the whole earth as indicated in Daniel 7:23?
Because it is the world of Israel, not the planet. The other beasts didn't rule the planet, they ruled the world of Israel. The world known to Israel at that time.

At the time of the writing of the Revelation, Rome already ruled the earth of Israel, shown in the statue of Daniel 2. It ruled the earth/world of Israel for 2000 years until Israel was restored to Jerusalem.


The beast with ten heads who ascends from the bottomless pit to wage war against the two witnesses in Revelation 11:7, is to be destroyed,
The beast is the iron legs/toes of Dan 2 and the 4th beast of Dan 7. Rome, a city that sits on the 7 heads/hills/mts. of the beast.

This beast city, the hills/mts are also 7 heads, one "is" at John's time. (Caesar)

Then there is an 8th head. He goes from the death of the 7th head, unto perdition (spiritual destruction, eternal).

That is when the Roman beast is destroyed, when Jesus comes at the rapt/resur and this planet is destroyed.

That is the stone striking in the Dan 2., statue. Then we see a new earth after the judgment.

---

The iron is solid, from the beginning to the toes. It doesn't stop and then start up again. So who was the iron, 700 years ago?

Who is the iron nation that sits on 7 hills, right now?

Who sits on the seat of the beast right now? The city? Who sits on the throne of Caesar at this very minute?

When did the image of Caesar, return to sit in the very spot that he did, 2000 yrs ago? 1929.

The beast ascends out of the abyss..



because his system of consuming/devouring of the whole earth's natural resources results in the earth's destruction (Revelation 11:18). Rome is not consuming/devouring the whole earth's natural resources causing its destruction.
It's not the earth's resources, it's Israel. The people of Israel. Not the material planet.

Rev 11:18, Jesus is stopping the attacks on the people of Israel, forever, eternally, after everyone on this planet is dead and we begin eternity.

See the resurrection of the 2 witnesses and others, see the judgement. This is the eternal judgment when Jesus comes for the kingdom. This is "the end" after the resurrection when Jesus comes for the kingdom 1 Cor 15:23-28.


Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces

What was the whole earth when this was written? The whole planet, or the whole known world of Israel? Did Rome devour Israel? The whole/all of Israel?


Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Israel of the broken natural branches, is witnessing right now in Jerusalem.

They were in mourning sackcloth while they were not in Jerusalem.

After 1929, the lying Satan did make war on the broken natural branches, driving them back to Israel.

But now he has no military power (image of the beast), he must deceive the kings of the east (Iran), into attacking Israel and restored Jerusalem.



Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The earth is Israel, broken natural branches, and the kingdom, wild and natural branches.

This is a picture of the end of the planet and the last judgment. (Rev 20:11-15)
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#17
Because it is the world of Israel, not the planet. The other beasts didn't rule the planet, they ruled the world of Israel. The world known to Israel at that time.

At the time of the writing of the Revelation, Rome already ruled the earth of Israel, shown in the statue of Daniel 2. It ruled the earth/world of Israel for 2000 years until Israel was restored to Jerusalem.




The beast is the iron legs/toes of Dan 2 and the 4th beast of Dan 7. Rome, a city that sits on the 7 heads/hills/mts. of the beast.

This beast city, the hills/mts are also 7 heads, one "is" at John's time. (Caesar)

Then there is an 8th head. He goes from the death of the 7th head, unto perdition (spiritual destruction, eternal).

That is when the Roman beast is destroyed, when Jesus comes at the rapt/resur and this planet is destroyed.

That is the stone striking in the Dan 2., statue. Then we see a new earth after the judgment.

---

The iron is solid, from the beginning to the toes. It doesn't stop and then start up again. So who was the iron, 700 years ago?

Who is the iron nation that sits on 7 hills, right now?

Who sits on the seat of the beast right now? The city? Who sits on the throne of Caesar at this very minute?

When did the image of Caesar, return to sit in the very spot that he did, 2000 yrs ago? 1929.

The beast ascends out of the abyss..





It's not the earth's resources, it's Israel. The people of Israel. Not the material planet.

Rev 11:18, Jesus is stopping the attacks on the people of Israel, forever, eternally, after everyone on this planet is dead and we begin eternity.

See the resurrection of the 2 witnesses and others, see the judgement. This is the eternal judgment when Jesus comes for the kingdom. This is "the end" after the resurrection when Jesus comes for the kingdom 1 Cor 15:23-28.




What was the whole earth when this was written? The whole planet, or the whole known world of Israel? Did Rome devour Israel? The whole/all of Israel?




Israel of the broken natural branches, is witnessing right now in Jerusalem.

They were in mourning sackcloth while they were not in Jerusalem.

After 1929, the lying Satan did make war on the broken natural branches, driving them back to Israel.

But now he has no military power (image of the beast), he must deceive the kings of the east (Iran), into attacking Israel and restored Jerusalem.





The earth is Israel, broken natural branches, and the kingdom, wild and natural branches.

This is a picture of the end of the planet and the last judgment. (Rev 20:11-15)
I prefer to acknowledge the devouring/destruction of the earth as described in Revelation 8, 9, and 16 caused by mans love for the works from his hands as Revelation 9:20 testifies.
As such this Word corroborates the beast's devouring of the worlds natural resources causing its destruction.

We are supposed to watch for the signs indicated in Mark 13, Luke 21, and Matthew 24, which are augmenting on the earth today due to mans industries.


Revelation 9:20 [FONT=&quot]And the rest of the men which were not [/FONT][FONT=&quot]killed by these plagues yet [/FONT][FONT=&quot]repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship[/FONT][FONT=&quot] devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

[/FONT]
Mark 13:37 [FONT=&quot]And what I say unto you I say unto all, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Watch[/FONT][FONT=&quot].

[/FONT]
Luke 21:36[FONT=&quot]Watch ye therefore[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

[/FONT]
Luke 21:25 [FONT=&quot]And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the sea and the waves roaring[/FONT][FONT=&quot];[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.[/FONT]
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
106
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#18
I prefer to acknowledge the devouring/destruction of the earth as described in Revelation 8, 9, and 16 caused by mans love for the works from his hands as Revelation 9:20 testifies.
As such this Word corroborates the beast's devouring of the worlds natural resources causing its destruction.
Brother louis,

The plagues, etc., are brought by God, not by man using the earth's resources.

Gen 1:28, Tells man to "subdue" the earth. That tells of a time when the earth is "subdued", brought under the control of men.

There was a time when the planet was not even explored, but now man can be anywhere, and have control of the area, in a very short time, say 48 hours to establish a military camp.

Even in the deepest part of the oceans, to the jungles of the Amazon, etc., man is in control of the earth.

This is the fulfillment of this prophecy. It basically means that the fulfillment of the time of man is......finished.

You see, I believe that the time has come also, but not for the same reasons you do.


We are supposed to watch for the signs indicated in Mark 13, Luke 21, and Matthew 24, which are augmenting on the earth today due to mans industries.
We both see that the pollution of man is destroying the lives of our descendants. It may be that man has already passed the point where the changes cannot be altered that lead to the extinction of humans.

This is just another sign that Jesus is coming for the kingdom, as this world will end soon.

--

But that is not the message of the seals, trumpets, etc. To bring repentance, yes, but the events are not a result of man carrying out what God has said, subdue the earth.

The events fall on Israel primarily, for rejecting the gospel kingdom, and continuing to reject it.


Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

If Israel would accept Jesus and the kingdom, then they would be repenting of these things. But this shows that at the 6th trumpet, Israel has still not accepted Jesus and the gospel kingdom.



Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Luke 21:36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Read Lk 21:20-24, This is 70 ad stuff. Jerusalem surrounded, flee to the mountains, times of the gentiles, fall by the SWORD, all 70 ad.

But not everything was finished by 70 ad., the times of the gentiles had just begun, they lasted until Israel was restored to Jerusalem.

Knowing the difference is the key, what has happened, and what has not.

Jesus has not come for the kingdom yet, and the resurrection unto salvation has not happened yet, but they are closer than ever.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
684
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#19
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

John's revelation reports nohting more than all things that were written in the old testament - therefore all prophecy was fulfilled when Jerusalem was compassed by armies in the war of 66-70 AD.

ALL means all.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
106
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#20
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

John's revelation reports nohting more than all things that were written in the old testament - therefore all prophecy was fulfilled when Jerusalem was compassed by armies in the war of 66-70 AD.

ALL means all.
I've already proven to you that not every prophecy was fulfilled by 70 ad.

It's only saying that the dest had to happen. Just like Jesus had to die so that all things written may be fulfilled.

You have let the misinterpretation of this one verse, warp the entire time line of your prophecies.

We are still fulfilling prophecies today, when we become Christians and enter the kingdom.