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What do you make of this verse?
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore comfort one another with these words.
This scripture is one the reasons that I say that the phrase "second coming" is not used in the bible. I do believe that we do have hope. And I do believe that Jesus will come again. We are not condemned if we are in Jesus Christ (John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.).
And I know this is coming so I will go ahead and address it:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [SUP]2 [/SUP]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? [SUP]6 [/SUP]And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; [SUP]9 [/SUP]that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, [SUP]12 [/SUP]in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
Some say that the lawless one is Satan, but as we see in verse 9 that he "was" in accord with Satan. We also see that Paul says "what restrains him now", meaning that he was there in the first century (either that or not a man, as people tend to look for).
I would actually like to see what Larry_Stotle has to say about this post, since we seem to be pretty much on the same page with regard to prophecy. I am open to correction - if I can make sense of the correction.
Who is the lawless one? I have my suspicions, but most won't like one of them. The other would probably not be accepted, but people wouldn't be as bothered by him.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore comfort one another with these words.
This scripture is one the reasons that I say that the phrase "second coming" is not used in the bible. I do believe that we do have hope. And I do believe that Jesus will come again. We are not condemned if we are in Jesus Christ (John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.).
And I know this is coming so I will go ahead and address it:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [SUP]2 [/SUP]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? [SUP]6 [/SUP]And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; [SUP]9 [/SUP]that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, [SUP]12 [/SUP]in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
Some say that the lawless one is Satan, but as we see in verse 9 that he "was" in accord with Satan. We also see that Paul says "what restrains him now", meaning that he was there in the first century (either that or not a man, as people tend to look for).
I would actually like to see what Larry_Stotle has to say about this post, since we seem to be pretty much on the same page with regard to prophecy. I am open to correction - if I can make sense of the correction.
Who is the lawless one? I have my suspicions, but most won't like one of them. The other would probably not be accepted, but people wouldn't be as bothered by him.
L
Re - Thessalonians. Until the futurist camp can come to terms with the imminence statements in the NT trying to discuss Thessalonians would be futile because those letters hinge on understanding and accepting these statements and others in the NT.
Until the foundation is set properly any "theology" built on them is not going to "sit" right:
(Mat 24:21 KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(Mat 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Ignoring time statements just leads to misunderstanding:
(Rom 13:12 KJV) The night is far spent, the day is at hand....
(Phil 4:5 KJV) .......The Lord is at hand.
(1 Pet 4:7 KJV) But the end of all things is at hand....
(Rev 1:3 KJV) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand..
If one can't understand simple statements such as "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" how can you hope to understand the rest?
Until the foundation is set properly any "theology" built on them is not going to "sit" right:
(Mat 24:21 KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(Mat 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Ignoring time statements just leads to misunderstanding:
(Rom 13:12 KJV) The night is far spent, the day is at hand....
(Phil 4:5 KJV) .......The Lord is at hand.
(1 Pet 4:7 KJV) But the end of all things is at hand....
(Rev 1:3 KJV) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand..
If one can't understand simple statements such as "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" how can you hope to understand the rest?
O
OK, now for the rest of the story,
the text:
[h=3]Prophecy of the End Time[/h]12 “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”
Ok, what is he talking about, numbers and a time bracket. The Ache Angel Michael guards over the "Book of Life" (our names and the other blood bought are written therein) until that time wherein we will be redeemed and those that are not in the book of life will be judged. And we will shine in the darkness, our righteousness (in Christ Jesus) will that is, and we will shine as the stars in heaven (numbers thereof). But here Daniel is told to "seal the book up until time and time again." During the tribulations and the knowledge thereof will come to be known to all and then we are again at the time point where this prophet end the story, the Arch Angel Michael opens the books.
The important thing to do in God's word is not to take a verse or a couple of them and question them, because the rest of the story found before them and after them tells the real message. Be blessed brothers and sister in Christ Jesus, and why not?
the text:
[h=3]Prophecy of the End Time[/h]12 “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”
Ok, what is he talking about, numbers and a time bracket. The Ache Angel Michael guards over the "Book of Life" (our names and the other blood bought are written therein) until that time wherein we will be redeemed and those that are not in the book of life will be judged. And we will shine in the darkness, our righteousness (in Christ Jesus) will that is, and we will shine as the stars in heaven (numbers thereof). But here Daniel is told to "seal the book up until time and time again." During the tribulations and the knowledge thereof will come to be known to all and then we are again at the time point where this prophet end the story, the Arch Angel Michael opens the books.
The important thing to do in God's word is not to take a verse or a couple of them and question them, because the rest of the story found before them and after them tells the real message. Be blessed brothers and sister in Christ Jesus, and why not?
I agree, though I don't know, that it seems that the end of the week (I believe we've talked about this) is close to an end. But, I believe that most of what people believe is coming has already come (70AD). The message of the OT was Jesus. I think we can agree with that. Jesus made it possible for the whole world to become God's children.
When you see the apostles ask when Israel will be restored, you will remember that God said, "And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also." (Jeremiah 3:8) (You can't help but notice that He also called Judah and Israel harlots - as He did in Revelation). God restored the Israel of the promise in the establishment of the church and He destroyed any possibility (without Him being directly involved - though I don't believe He has any intention) of the animal sacrifices to continue. God had the temple and the lineage of the priests destroyed so that the abomination would end - (Isaiah 66:3-4) “But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck; He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood; He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol. As they have chosen their own ways, And their soul delights in their abominations, So I will choose their punishments And will bring on them what they dread.
When you see the apostles ask when Israel will be restored, you will remember that God said, "And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also." (Jeremiah 3:8) (You can't help but notice that He also called Judah and Israel harlots - as He did in Revelation). God restored the Israel of the promise in the establishment of the church and He destroyed any possibility (without Him being directly involved - though I don't believe He has any intention) of the animal sacrifices to continue. God had the temple and the lineage of the priests destroyed so that the abomination would end - (Isaiah 66:3-4) “But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck; He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood; He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol. As they have chosen their own ways, And their soul delights in their abominations, So I will choose their punishments And will bring on them what they dread.
I just posted this in the Bark thread; I think it might apply here as well.
Another thing to consider is that God's word is eternal. It doesn't have a use-by date on it. It echoes throughout time, that's what's behind the phenomenon of history repeating itself. And likewise, God's word is fulfilled in repetitions. He says Jerusalem will be sacked. And indeed it was in 70 ad. But the truth is it's been surrounded several times, and will be once again. Just a little more so than ever before. 70 ad was just a precurser, and now a tool of the devil to get your mind off of what's ahead.
You can't scratch God's words out of the Book just because they came true once. The truth is, It's coming true all the time.
Another thing to consider is that God's word is eternal. It doesn't have a use-by date on it. It echoes throughout time, that's what's behind the phenomenon of history repeating itself. And likewise, God's word is fulfilled in repetitions. He says Jerusalem will be sacked. And indeed it was in 70 ad. But the truth is it's been surrounded several times, and will be once again. Just a little more so than ever before. 70 ad was just a precurser, and now a tool of the devil to get your mind off of what's ahead.
You can't scratch God's words out of the Book just because they came true once. The truth is, It's coming true all the time.
Just to be safe that wasn't meant as a jab at anyone. It's just to say that you're not going to prepare for something you don't think you're going to have to face.
And who is it that doesn't want us prepared?
And what happens to those who aren't?
Yeah. Kinda makes it a little more serious than a little passing debate.
Timeline, my brother, for someone who doesn't really know what comes next, you seem pretty sure about what doesn't. I'd hate to think preconceived ideas are keeping you back from that...
And who is it that doesn't want us prepared?
And what happens to those who aren't?
Yeah. Kinda makes it a little more serious than a little passing debate.
Timeline, my brother, for someone who doesn't really know what comes next, you seem pretty sure about what doesn't. I'd hate to think preconceived ideas are keeping you back from that...
Well, if you will allow me a cut and past from a larger piece I wrote about the 'rapture', maybe this will explain. (While the timing of the rapture is the initiator of the piece, just recognizing that it is post-70 ad will be good for now).
Allow me to explain a moment here WHY it is so important. Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the tribulation? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah[1]. Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But it was dependent upon Noah being obedient and faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn’t important, ‘God will save me’, and he didn’t build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dogpaddle those 40 days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was, after all, being judged for disbelief and disobedience.
Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation, and we’ve seen a multiple of others that back that up. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass earth upheavals, yada yada yada. If we expect to have to survive it all we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? Suppose He wants us to stockpile food, water, and medical supplies. That may not be so easy to get our cooperation with if we don’t think we’re going to need it. God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are to respond to what God would have us do to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.
And more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him. Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, and when the heat’s on those who are not prepared will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren’t trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy (which is the mass turning away from and rejection of God) and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy. Paul put them on an equal footing.
Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared or we will fail Him!!!
Sorry. It’s just really important that we all understand that.
In 1 Peter 4:12-13 we are told not to think strangely about the time of trial that is to come upon us. And Jesus Himself prayed that we not be taken from the world, but delivered from its evil[2], and commanded us to pray for the strength to endure. Remember ol’ Noah? He was probably pretty glad he’d built the boat when those raindrops started falling and the waters started welling up. But he had to believe he was going to see it happen or he’d have never driven the first nail. Jesus says we will be in much the same boat.
[HR][/HR][1] Matt. 24:35-39
[2] John 17:15
Allow me to explain a moment here WHY it is so important. Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the tribulation? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah[1]. Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But it was dependent upon Noah being obedient and faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn’t important, ‘God will save me’, and he didn’t build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dogpaddle those 40 days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was, after all, being judged for disbelief and disobedience.
Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation, and we’ve seen a multiple of others that back that up. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass earth upheavals, yada yada yada. If we expect to have to survive it all we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? Suppose He wants us to stockpile food, water, and medical supplies. That may not be so easy to get our cooperation with if we don’t think we’re going to need it. God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are to respond to what God would have us do to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.
And more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him. Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, and when the heat’s on those who are not prepared will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren’t trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy (which is the mass turning away from and rejection of God) and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy. Paul put them on an equal footing.
Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared or we will fail Him!!!
Sorry. It’s just really important that we all understand that.
In 1 Peter 4:12-13 we are told not to think strangely about the time of trial that is to come upon us. And Jesus Himself prayed that we not be taken from the world, but delivered from its evil[2], and commanded us to pray for the strength to endure. Remember ol’ Noah? He was probably pretty glad he’d built the boat when those raindrops started falling and the waters started welling up. But he had to believe he was going to see it happen or he’d have never driven the first nail. Jesus says we will be in much the same boat.
[HR][/HR][1] Matt. 24:35-39
[2] John 17:15
John says, "I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus,".
I know, many do not believe that he was referring to the same tribulation. But he was, in my opinion.
And God did speak to Noah. I suppose that if He wants me to buy a bus He will tell me. But I suppose, I should save up so that I will have enough money to buy a bus. Or can He not provide in the same way that He provided for the 4,000 and 5,000. Or in the way that He provided for the widow of Zarephath.
I know, many do not believe that he was referring to the same tribulation. But he was, in my opinion.
And God did speak to Noah. I suppose that if He wants me to buy a bus He will tell me.
But I suppose, I should save up so that I will have enough money to buy a bus. Or can He not provide in the same way that He provided for the 4,000 and 5,000. Or in the way that He provided for the widow of Zarephath.Exactly. The tribulation affects us all - clear back to John. Jesus said that in this world we will see it because of Him. But that it will culminate in a Biblical-proportioned event before He returns. God's word was fulfilled in 70 ad, but that wasn't the end of it. It is eternal and echoes thru time and is about to reverberate again. Big time.
But again, if you don't believe such a thing, you won't get ready, and again, who wants you unprepared?
Jus' sayin.
But again, if you don't believe such a thing, you won't get ready, and again, who wants you unprepared?
Jus' sayin.
B
This is good teaching. There is a time coming and I fear for my children when it does.
Just to add my two penny's worth, when it speaks of the two witnesses in Revelation (Christianity, and Judaism) they had to be killed first before the rapture so the rest of the world could see their destruction and gloat, after this they were "Taken up". I am convinced that firstly there will be an outpouring of the spirit so huge on all aspects of society that this will be the catalyst for these things to start.
Just to add my two penny's worth, when it speaks of the two witnesses in Revelation (Christianity, and Judaism) they had to be killed first before the rapture so the rest of the world could see their destruction and gloat, after this they were "Taken up". I am convinced that firstly there will be an outpouring of the spirit so huge on all aspects of society that this will be the catalyst for these things to start.
I want to be clear here. I do not think that Hitler was prophesied, but when I think about Hitler, it reminds me of Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, etc. I find it funny (not ha ha) that Hitler was half Jew and that he focused on Jews for extinction. Again, not prophecy, but it does sound OT. And I cannot say that I see the improbability of the reemergence of Israel in its own nation, but that has happened as well. Again, not prophecy (in my opinion). I know, God said that He doesn't do anything without telling the prophets. But do we still have prophets that tell the future through inspiration from God. I don't know. If there are, and we heard them, would we listen or even acknowledge it as a prophecy? There are so many people that teach false doctrines, how would I know that they were real, outside of them performing miracles (and in this day and time we would be skeptical when seeing a real miracle because we know that there are so many ways to produce illusions - Is it a prophet or David Copperfield or Chris Angel). I am rambling, but I think you understand where I am coming from, even if you don't agree.
I would say that we prepare ourselves through understanding scripture as well as we can; but more importantly, establishing a relationship with Jesus Christ. Living our lives as Christians. Being led by the Holy Spirit. Learning to love - this is something we really need to work on - Loving with a Godly love. And understanding that we use gentle words, but standing firm in the word of God. Love does not mean that we bend for the immoral teachings that we see running rampant through our society and world. It also means that we should be a little more kind to a fellow Christian that doesn't have exactly the same understanding as we do, correcting with kind words, and testing our own faith/understand to make sure we are believing what is true.
I want to say first that I want to discuss and not attack. First I do understand how you come to this conclusion (at least I think I do)
Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Revelation 11:1-8
Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. [SUP]6 [/SUP]These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
I guess I would like to hear your understanding of all of this, but mainly the points in bold.
Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Revelation 11:1-8
Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. [SUP]6 [/SUP]These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
I guess I would like to hear your understanding of all of this, but mainly the points in bold.
Heh I was reading over this exact chapter last night and thinking on such. Let us read Jesus reply to the disciples.
Luke 9:55-56
[SUP]55 [/SUP]But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
[SUP]56 [/SUP]For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
Luke 9:55-56
[SUP]55 [/SUP]But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
[SUP]56 [/SUP]For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.