The burden of the Lord

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#61
You know all this confusion over whether to keep the law or not is deliberate.
God is testing us, to see who loves Him, and who loves Him not.

Even so, bless God
Paul
I don't think its that confusing.

Hebrews 11:6 [FONT=&quot]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

[/FONT]
Galatians 3:12 [FONT=&quot]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

[/FONT]
2 Corinthians 3:14-16
[FONT=&quot]14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Do you understand what these scriptures are saying?

Its saying only those who have not come to Christ are working at the law. Those who are working at the law haven't yet come to faith in Christ.

Ephesians 1:17-19
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Hebrews 7:18-19
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


But we can't take the vail off your heart and mind. You can have the answers staring you straight in the face but if you don't come to Christ you just won't understand any of it. He is the only One who can give you understanding. All we can do is point you in His direction.[/FONT]
 
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#62
Hey mate....unless you keep every jot and tittle 24/7/365 your whole life you are guilty of breaking all of it.....
G'day dcontroversial. But it doesn't apply to you?

You could transgress every point of the law, and still not be guilty?


The righteousness of Christ WITHOUT the law is imputed unto all who exercise faith.....the law was designed to prove your guilt and that which is designed to prove guilt will NEVER make your righteous before GOD...see above bolded point.
Anybody can just check by the letter, if His righteousness is upon you, or not.

Do you not realize that?
Paul

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law,
That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Romans 10:5
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,331
6,698
113
#63
Gal. 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

So Paul is talking to the Gentiles Galatians yes?

So you preach to everyone that listens that these Gentile Galatians were keeping the Commandments of God before and until Paul converted them. Now, after they have repented, they are free from God's Commandments and are not to be "Entangled Again" in those burdensome Yoke of God's Holy, Just, Good, Laws they obeyed before they knew Christ.

And lets not forget that the Mainstream Preachers of that time (The circumcision), the Pharisees were obedient servants of God entangled and trapped as poor slaves to God's Laws and Jesus came along and tried to get them to Transgress God's Commandments so He could free them from the Burdensome Commandments of God, but they refused to disobey His Father as He commanded so Jesus rejected them from the Kingdom of His Father.

But they are still trying to bewitching people into obeying God and His terrible burdensome laws. But Paul is going to make sure they stay in Transgression and not slip back to obedience.

Sorry G9, I don't think this is how it goes.
well, if you want, read the entire letter, and then if you disagree, take it up with Paul. he wrote these words, your precious KJV translates it that way. not my words.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#64
G'day dcontroversial. But it doesn't apply to you?

You could transgress every point of the law, and still not be guilty?


Anybody can just check by the letter, if His righteousness is upon you, or not.

Do you not realize that?
Paul

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law,
That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Romans 10:5
What is the purpose of the law...?

A school master to point us to Christ
The law condemns all who are lost
The law is for the lawless
The law is nailed to the cross
The law waxeth old and is being done away with
The law deems all guilty and stops every mouth
The law is weak through the flesh
The law is summed up in LOVING God and each other....

The LAW and the prophets were UNTIL JOHN.....we are now under the grace and mercy which came by JESUS....I.E. the NEW Covenant
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#65
That’s OK. The first sentence pretty much exposes your preaching that Gods Commandments are the yoke and burden that plagues mankind.

The fact that your not even curious about the points I have raised is telling. It’s OK though. Thanks for the conversation
 
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#66
Thank you, Grandpa.

I don't think its that confusing.
With all this contention, you don't see the confusion?

Of course, your side isn't confused,
but then, neither are the lawkeepers.

Hebrews 11:6
Galatians 3:12
2 Corinthians 3:14-16
Ephesians 1:17-19
Hebrews 7:18-19

Jesus is my teacher.
And He taught me to keep God's law.

I am not professing I am perfect, or keep it all perfectly,
but I am certainly a lot better at it than them who have faith they keep the commandments by faith.
In fact, Jesus set me as a teacher of it.

It is a pity you aren't interested in learning about God's law,
but I shall not pity you.
What mercy have you shown me?

Do you understand what these scriptures are saying?
If you can find confirmation for your gospel by showing me it from the law,
for God's word are my guide.
I want to be led to Jesus, not away from God's law.

I could probably find the corresponding verses to those verses in Lev or Deut for you,
but I really do feel I would be wasting my time with you.

You ears are blocked to the law. Yes?

Its saying only those who have not come to Christ are working at the law.
Really? I thought they were Atheists, that hadn't come to Christ yet,
and they don't even look at the Bible.

I should know, I was one.
When I decided I needed salvation, and decided to take look at Jesus,
the Christians thrust a book with a law into my hands and told me I had to keep it.
Even all of it.

Every time I had a question, read your Bible, believe the scriptures, was their answer.
Well I did, and Jesus saved me. It's true. It really does lead to Jesus, if we follow what it says with sincere heart.
But now when I go to show the commandments which helped me find Jesus,
Christians say, NOT THAT PART OF THE BIBLE!

I say, why not? That's what led me to Jesus.
What's your hurry to get out of school?
And why not let the Schoolmaster teach our children?
Do you think you are better than Him?

Those who are working at the law haven't yet come to faith in Christ.
You think a man would take on the law if he didn't have faith in Jesus?
Oh ye of little faith.

Consider that you be very wrong my friend.
It is the Atheists and the faithsayers that are equal in the law.
Their faith is equally strong when it comes to believing the need for God's words.
Their excuses are different, but their outcomes are the same.

Ignorance of the law.
Paul

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:
and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 2:12
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#67
Originally Posted by comingfrom
G'day dcontroversial. But it doesn't apply to you?

You could transgress every point of the law, and still not be guilty?


Anybody can just check by the letter, if His righteousness is upon you, or not.

Do you not realize that?
Paul

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law,
That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.


Romans 10:5
What is the purpose of the law...?

A school master to point us to Christ
The law condemns all who are lost
The law is for the lawless
The law is nailed to the cross
The law waxeth old and is being done away with
The law deems all guilty and stops every mouth
The law is weak through the flesh
The law is summed up in LOVING God and each other....

The LAW and the prophets were UNTIL JOHN.....we are now under the grace and mercy which came by JESUS....I.E. the NEW Covenant
You really don't realize that.
Wow.

Bless your cotton and nylon sox dcontroversial.
You really are opening my eyes.

Don't forget this purpose: that we might Praise the Lord!
Paul
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#68
Why did Jesus suffer? Because the Mainstream God of Abraham preachers were striving to serve God like Zacharias? Or because the Mainstream Preachers had created their own doctrine and Jesus exposed it as coming from man and not from God.

Did Paul make up his own doctrine, or did he preach from the Law and the Prophets?

What does it say about a people who would choose the Traditions and Doctrines of men over the righteousness of God to the point of killing anyone who would expose their preaching as false.

You are doing the same thing you accuse me of. Posting one sentence of many that I wrote so as to twist the meaning of my post. Why would you do such a thing?




I'm not doing the thing you did - which was to cut the scripture short before it proclaimed Christ.

Why didn't you answer any of my questions?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#69
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus,

and at Jerusalem,

and throughout all the coasts of Judaea,

and then to the Gentiles, that they(ALL) should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.


Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Isn't this part necessary FIRST in your preaching as it was in Christ's and Paul's? And what would you repent from and to?

Are we to repent from a Gentile who transgresses the Commandments of God by our own doctrines and Traditions, to a Gentile who Transgresses different Commandments by different Doctrines of men, by our own traditions, except this time in the name of Jesus?

And what are "Works worthy of repentance" that Paul taught? Man made traditions, man made doctrines, or the same works our Savior Jesus walked in that we are instructed to "Walk in" as well.
These are just baseless innuendo that i care nothing for godliness.

Still not one answer for my questions:

What is a 'Messiah' and why do we need one?
 
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#70
Thank you, posthuman.

I know you weren't addressing me, hope you don't mind if I butt in.

I'm not doing the thing you did - which was to cut the scripture short before it proclaimed Christ.

Why didn't you answer any of my questions?
Last page of our Bible is still saying to keep the commandments.

[FONT=&quot]Blessed are they that do His commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Revelation 22:14

These are just baseless innuendo that i care nothing for godliness.
If your godliness isn't by the commandments, it isn't really godly.

Why didn't you answer any of my questions?
What would you like to know?

This is my thread, and I am here to answer questions.

What about my scripture lessen on washing?
Did you like it?
Nobody questioned it, or even tried to critique it.
It must have been good.

Or why don't you tell us about your encounters with Jesus.

Jesus comes quickly
Paul
 
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#71
The topics I posted on this thread were about
how relatively easy the law is to keep, compared to what men have us believe,
and about the washing in Jesus' blood.

They were also my testimony or witness of Jesus,
or at least some parts of my journey with Him.

I offered them up in the midst of the children of God
for encouragement to keep God's words,
and to maybe hear your testimonies of Jesus too.

Was it naive of me to believe a believer would be treated as a believer among believers?
Like what happened to grace?
Thank you for your testimony, but it was in disagreement with what Jesus taught me,
or I admire your zeal but this verse you put was wrong for this reason.
or This is how the washing went for me.

I'm dreaming of course.
I am imagining all this Jesus love flowing around,
everyone being so polite and loving to each other.
Everyone being diligent when reading each others posts,
being careful not to misread, trying to see the other's point of view.
Everyone prayerfully contemplating before posting,
being careful not to post in anger or spite.
Everyone checking their own words.
Everyone praising and blessing Jesus.
Everyone loving every word that He said.
Everyone thanking each other for reproofs.
Everyone getting blessed for reproving.
Everyone praying in the Holy Ghost.

I think I was dreaming of a different heaven.
But this is heaven.
Merciless judgment abounds.
Beasts wading through the flocks swinging great swords.
Mighty warriors doing battle.
Their battles cross over from thread to thread.
They rarely glance to even see what topic they are in.
Their eyes are on their opponents.
Who dares to face their fierceness?
Many lesser men fall.

Welcome to land of Canaan, Paul.
I Love it, Lord.

I just wish they a red heart smiley.
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#72
And, I will add,
I don't always fulfill my own dream.

Reading back over this thread, I can see places where
I was harsh,
didn't contemplate long enough,
got offended,
could have said better.

Please forgive me.
It's the heat of the battle, you see.
The fire of the judgment.
The place where we offer up and kill animals and dash all the blood around.

You are all doing the law,
just not all as God says to.

And I do love you.
Paul
 
Oct 15, 2017
133
13
0
#73
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus,

and at Jerusalem,

and throughout all the coasts of Judaea,

and then to the Gentiles, that they(ALL) should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.


Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Isn't this part necessary FIRST in your preaching as it was in Christ's and Paul's? And what would you repent from and to?
Yes it is necessary. And all Gospel preachers worth their weight in salt do command by the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ all men everywhere to repent. You seem to think that everyone here is just a lawless antinomian?

Try listening to preachers like Paul Washer and Tim Conway, and then imply that we dont preach repentance.

It always comes down to the Glory, who gets it? Man or God? If you take the Pelagian view of I repent I follow I obey, you can get to the judgment seat and pat yourself on the back, atta boy you did it!
But thats not how it goes. Its God who saves, God who grants repentance, God who regenerates, God who gives a new heart.
Its all about WHO gets the Glory for man's salvation and the answer is always GOD.

Less man, more God.
 
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#74
Try listening to preachers like Paul Washer and Tim Conway, and then imply that we dont preach repentance.
Listen to Jesus.
Don't ever eat anyone else's blood except for Jesus'.

Jesus said unto them,Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Matthew 16:6

It always comes down to the Glory, who gets it? Man or God? If you take the Pelagian view of I repent I follow I obey, you can get to the judgment seat and pat yourself on the back, atta boy you did it!
But thats not how it goes. Its God who saves, God who grants repentance, God who regenerates, God who gives a new heart.
Its all about WHO gets the Glory for man's salvation and the answer is always GOD.

Less man, more God.
God is an everlasting commandment.
It always comes down to His commandments.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Ecclesiastes 12:13

Bless Jesus
Paul

Blessed are they that do His commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Revelation 22:14​
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,957
113
#75
You will be amazed, when you begin to get a handle on the law.
You will even be enraptured.

When you find out,
All the things the Christians wonder and bicker about,
and debate with each other in heated debates in the judgment,
are all plainly explained in the law.
No more guessing. No more wondering.
Just delightful things to do.

Just some of the things you will discover, in no particular order.

What God requires of us.
The blood of Jesus. What it is. How to obtain it.
The atonement. How to obtain it.
The washing, which is to be done after Jesus washes us.
The second coming. How it will come to pass.
The promised land, the kingdom of God, and how to become established in it.
Offerings and oblations. How to bring them to God, and how to do them for our fellowmen.
Power over devils. How to identify them, and how to cast them out.

I'll offer up a little scripture study now,
this is especially for those that are born again in Jesus.
If you haven't had that experience, this may be of interest, or you might not be able to relate.
It would be worth noting. for when Jesus does come.
I hope to prepare others that they be better prepared than I was.

I'll begin in the New Testament to show, that though this is a teaching of law,
the fact we have it confirmed in the New Testament shows that it still applies.

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,
and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.
Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father;
to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 1:5-6

A beautiful passage, you have to agree.
But I want to draw your attention to two things in those two verses.
Washed us from our sins in His own blood, and hath made us priests.
Yes, I know He says, kings and priests unto God, but for the next passage coming up,
remember He said I will make you a priest.

And the priest shall look on the plague, after that it is washed:
and, behold, if the plague have not changed his colour, and the plague be not spread;
it is unclean;
thou shalt burn it in the fire;
it is fret inward, whether it be bare within or without.

And if the priest look, and, behold, the plague be somewhat dark after the washing of it;
then he shall rend it out of the garment,
or out of the skin, or out of the warp, or out of the woof:

And if it appear still in the garment,
either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin;
it is a spreading plague:
thou shalt burn that wherein the plague is with fire.

And the garment,
either warp, or woof, or whatsoever thing of skin it be,
which thou shalt wash,
if the plague be departed from them, then it shall be washed the second time,
and shall be clean.

Leviticus 13:55-58

So, from the verse in Revelation, we know who the priest is, that is us.
And we are instructed to look upon our garments, after it is washed.
And Revelation told us Jesus washed us, and I know many of you have experienced it.
But you probably weren't informed by fellow believers to examine your garments.
I know I wasn't.
Now garments probably needs some explanation.
Either warp or woof or whatever thing of skin it be.
Well, it is whatever Jesus washed, for a start.
Mostly we say He washed our heart.
The phrase, "whatever thing of skin it be", kind of answers it for me.
We can't really know what it is, but it is the garment of our soul, or our inward parts.
When we say our heart, we don't really mean our fleshy muscle, do we.
Our aura, or mantle, also works for me.

OK, hopefully you are still following.
Did you check your garments, after Jesus washed you?
It took me a little while to find this law, but whence I did,
then I undertook to wash my robes.

So I looked, and even though Jesus had washed me, it was still somewhat dark.
You know, I felt so delivered, so happy, so renewed, after Jesus washed me,
I didn't even think to look.
But then, after coming across that scripture, then I did look,
and there were still some dark thoughts in me.
And I still, through habit, kept some falsehoods.
I couldn't identify them all yet, but some stuck out, so I knew there must be more.

I got to work burning them out.
Some took a fair bit of groaning in the spirit in order to rip them free.
And the more you wash, the more spot you see, the more you find to wash.
Hence the need for second cleaning, and maybe a third and fourth.

Every non Jesus saying had to come out.
Any little "but" against keeping any law, and any word of God, must go.
There are a few sabbaths necessary, to commune with Lord,
to help you get your cleaning done right and complete.

Now we can go back to Revelation, to see what we have done.

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me,
What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
These are they which came out of great tribulation,
and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 7:14

Again, the New Testament, for me at least, is confirming the need to do the law,
if we want to be among the white robes that is.
The washing is a commandment in the law, for we priests unto God to do,
after Jesus has washed us.

Now as if this wasn't surprise enough for me,
I found a really surprising description of what Jesus done, in the day that He washed us,
in Judges, of all places.
So don't think people didn't get born again by Jesus before He came as man, or before He died on the cross.
Abraham saw His day, and so did many others.
It is described in the Old Testament better than it is described anywhere else.

Now these are the nations which the LORD left, to prove Israel by them,
even as many of Israel as had not known all the wars of Canaan;

Only that the generations of the children of Israel might know,
to teach them war, at the least such as before knew nothing thereof;

Namely, five lords of the Philistines, and all the Canaanites,
and the Sidonians, and the Hivites that dwelt in mount Lebanon,
from mount Baal-hermon unto the entering in of Hamath.

And they were to prove Israel by them,
to know whether they would hearken unto the commandments of the LORD,
which he commanded their fathers by the hand of Moses.

Judges 3:1-4


You may have to try a bit here, the Lord is kind of speaking in tongues to us.
I'll put NT equivalent terminology to help.
Try also to see it in context with the whole story of His people.
He has just brought them out of Egypt, and they are in the new land.

So we are Israel (child of God), and the Lord (Jesus) left some nations (spirits) in us,
after He brought us to the kingdom of God.
So that we might learn war (but not as we knew war before).
This war is the period of washing, after the Lord delivered us from the main nations (devils),
which were preventing us occupying the new land (heaven).
But now we are in heaven, doing the commandments of that new land.
Washing the plagues out of our garment is one analogy,
driving evil tribes and wicked Lords out from within is another analogy for the same thing.
A period of cleansing.

You see, this is another thing that many Christians don't realize, don't teach.
Jesus talks about casting out devils or evil spirits,
but in the Old Testament Jesus goes into great depth on the subject.
Jesus didn't have to say much about the subject when He came as a man, because it was already covered,
and He knows His faithful followers will get to it, when they go to do His law.

And why does Jesus leave some devils in us?
To try us.
It is very clearly stated.
To know if we will keep the law that came by Moses, or not.
For a lot of people are insincere, but He delivers them from their main devils anyway, if they ask.
But if they are half-hearted, it doesn't take long for the relatively harmless ones He left to go get their mates,
and before you know, whole tribes are coming in through the gates of Hamath.
But those that go on to keep the laws of Moses, go on to clean all those Canaanites out of the land.
And have the pleasure of slaying those five Philistine Lords.

And yes, you can go into the terms used here, which are also revealing.
The devils enter in at Hamath, which makes Hamath the gate of our garments,
or the gate to the land that is us.
Mount Baal-hermon is the peak of evil in us.
But they are all over Mount Lebanon too, which you should have figured by now,
from other uses of the terms Mount Lebanon, and Cedars of Lebanon,
is the holy mountain in us.
It doesn't take much to decipher when you try.

And indeed, we are Israel,
the Lord has given us a great land,
and Jesus, seed of David, is our Lord and shepherd.
And He feeds us.

Thank God

I don't mind questions,
or you can try to kill my bullocks. I don't mind.
Paul

Woe!

Bad hermeneutics! Those first 2 passages are a great example of doing a word search in English, without looking at the context, first to the Jews, next to Jesus and the New Covenant, slamming them together, then pulling a verse from Revelation which is symbolic, being Apocalptic literature, and voilà! A new doctrine!

First, are we going to be actual Levitical priests, in Revelation? Jesus was of the order of Melchizedek, not the Levites! So right there, you have already lost your tenuous connection. Further, does calling the church "priests" really mean we are going to be checking people for whether they have leprosy on their bodies and clothes?

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Rev. 21:4

In fact, according to the rest of the Bible, including Revelation, there will be no disease or sickness anymore. So, bam! That is not and never will be a function for the priesthood of believers, under Jesus, our king and priest. We are washed in the Word, too! Not our physical garments, under Jesus!

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish." Eph. 5:25-27 ESV

Rev. 4:17 is obviously metaphorical. If you keep it literal, it means Jesus has to have an infinite supply of blood, that new believers keep draining. And if literal, then, probably it will make your literal robes, blood red, followed by that ugly brownish red when blood dries up. Let's give Jesus a break, assume that it is a means of expressing what the cross and the atonement did for us, and the on-going sanctification process by the Holy Spirit in our lives.

This war is the period of washing after the Lord delivered us from the main nation, (devils!)
Say what?? Please post a verse to support this fabricated nonsense. Wow, just wow! You really need to stop googling words, and then connecting them together. And this obsession with "washing?" All based on English word searches?

The washing is a commandment in the law, for we priests unto God to do,
after Jesus has washed us


Ok, so totally works salvation for us priests? I don't think so! I agree totally with obeying God, but not by interspersing it with Old Testament types, with totally different meanings and absolutely nothing to do with leprosy. Which, in this case in Leviticus, certainly is literal, but never literal in the New Testament especially in Revelation, a symbolic book, if there ever was one.

So, my suggestion is to stop thinking God has given you some great new revelation to support following the Levitical laws. And you do realize, there are 613 Levitical laws, which do not apply to us, because we are not from the tribe of Levi, and in fact, no Jew today knows which tribe he belongs to, since the genealogical records were lost when the Temple burned in 70 AD. And that was by God's design, so that people wouldn't come up with this kind of nonsense.

Eisegesis is when someone has a theory or half baked idea, and reads, into the Bible what they want it to read. I can honestly say, this post is one of the top examples of this very wrong way to do Bible study! Exegesis is the RIGHT way to read the Bible. It means reading the Bible over and over, and letting the words speak OUT to you, ex being "out of" in Greek. (Eis means into)


And then, read the whole Bible straight through about 10 or 20 times. Take a course on Bible hermeneutics, or Bible interpretation, and learn some of the things that have taken 3500 years to hammer out among scholars, clergy and laypeople. There are a number of people who post here sometimes we need to follow the law. But they know the Bible well, and do not just pull verses out of context and make up a bunch of utter disconnected nonsense.

Finally, I see you are flooding the forums with this nonsense. I loath putting you on ignore, but possibly reading all these ridiculous posts to tear them apart, because they are wrong from start to finish, is even less appealing. Again, put away the concordance, read up on hermeneutics, although a course or two would be better. Oh, and learn Greek and Hebrew, so that you can actually understand the intent of the authors to the audience in their time. And Biblical backgrounds.

You must get "How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth" by Gordon Fee, read it a few times. He gets into literary background, book backgrounds a bit, and genre. It is all important. And you appear to not know a thing about how to read the bible, in any way, shape or form!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,957
113
#76
Thank you, posthuman.

I know you weren't addressing me, hope you don't mind if I butt in.

Last page of our Bible is still saying to keep the commandments.

Blessed are they that do His commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Revelation 22:14

If your godliness isn't by the commandments, it isn't really godly.

What would you like to know?

This is my thread, and I am here to answer questions.

What about my scripture lessen on washing?
Did you like it?
Nobody questioned it, or even tried to critique it.
It must have been good.

Or why don't you tell us about your encounters with Jesus.

Jesus comes quickly
Paul

It took me a while to sort through your garbage, and critique it. Please see above for the complete version!
 
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#77
Hi Angela
It took me a while to sort through your garbage, and critique it. Please see above for the complete version!
Thank you for all your bullocks.

I'll take them by the horns a bit later.
It is going to take time, and I need to go offline just now.

God bless
Paul
 
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#78
Thank you, Angela.

Firstly, let me commend you.
You are the first to take my bullock by the horns.
That makes you the bravest so far.

Does that tell you something?


No. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad.

Bad hermeneutics! Those first 2 passages are a great example of doing a word search in English, without looking at the context, first to the Jews, next to Jesus and the New Covenant, slamming them together, then pulling a verse from Revelation which is symbolic, being Apocalptic literature, and voilà! A new doctrine!
The hermeneutics belongs to our Lord Jesus.
He is the one that revealed to me all that you read in my post.

So, the words of scripture don't actually mean what they say?
Is that what you are saying?
Or are you saying that it was different Lord back in those days.

For I am the LORD, I change not;
therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Malachi 3:6

For me, the Bible is two Testaments of the same God,
and He changes not.
The new covenant is when He places His eternal covenant in us.

First, are we going to be actual Levitical priests, in Revelation?
Did Jesus not make you a priest unto God?

And how come Revelations says the sames things as Leviticus then?
Priests. Washing. Robes. Blood.

Can you touch your garments?

They have wandered as blind men in the streets,
they have polluted themselves with blood,
so that men could not touch their garments.

Lamentations 4:14

Jesus was of the order of Melchizedek, not the Levites!
Melchizidek is Jesus.
The King of Salem, means King of Peace.
That is Jesus.

Besides that, how do you know Melchizidek wasn't a Levite?
Melchizidek would have been following God's law. Wouldn't he?
Or he wouldn't be in the Bible.

Peace I leave with you, My peace I give unto you:
not as the world gives, give I unto you.
Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 14:27

So right there, you have already lost your tenuous connection.
Connection with what?
I am still in God's word, and He is still in me.
God's word is Jesus too.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.
In Him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:1-4

Further, does calling the church "priests" really mean we are going to be checking people for whether they have leprosy on their bodies and clothes?
Jesus said we got to cast all devils out.
Casting devils out is house cleaning too.
So yes.

But hear what Jesus says...
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to Me:
seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Hosea 4:6

If we reject the law, then we won't be a priest unto God.

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Rev. 21:4
He didn't wipe my tears until I was well into His law.

About when I got to this part.
And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God,
ye, and your sons, and your daughters,
and your menservants, and your maidservants,
and the Levite that is within your gates;
forasmuch as He has no part nor inheritance with you.

Deuteronomy 12:12

In fact, according to the rest of the Bible, including Revelation, there will be no disease or sickness anymore. So, bam!
Look around you.
Is it so?

I see that even the Christians are getting cancer and dementia.
I'm in my last day now, so maybe I notice it more.
And they are dropping like flies around me.
I want to heal them, but they are still stiffnecked against the law,
even after the big C comes upon them.
And how can I heal them, if they won't even receive God's words?
God is still bringing the punishment on them.
They need to repent first.

That is not and never will be a function for the priesthood of believers, under Jesus, our king and priest.
I read Leviticus to know about God's priesthood.

And a lot of the sons of Aaron are playing with strange fire these days.
They're all believing they have something better than God's law and commandments.

We are washed in the Word, too!
But not this word.

But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law;
ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people,
according as ye have not kept My ways, but have been partial in the law.

Malachi 2:8-9


Not our physical garments, under Jesus!
You must of missed the part where I explained garments.
Here, I'll give it to you again (save you scrolling).

Now garments probably needs some explanation.
Either warp or woof or whatever thing of skin it be.
Well, it is whatever Jesus washed, for a start.
Mostly we say He washed our heart.
The phrase, "whatever thing of skin it be", kind of answers it for me.
We can't really know what it is, but it is the garment of our soul, or our inward parts.
When we say our heart, we don't really mean our fleshy muscle, do we.
Our aura, or mantle, also works for me.
"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish." Eph. 5:25-27 ESV
Thank you, I know this verse.
The word starts at Genesis 1:1, doesn't it?

You should make a teaching of how you and other new covenant Christians wash in the word.
Specially since you see how others have got it all wrong,
by using the whole of the word, instead of just the verses Christians say say to keep.

You see, I always had difficulty with that concept.
I see the New Testament is still full of exhortations to keep the law,
so how do you decide which words to wash in?
Rev. 4:17 is obviously metaphorical. If you keep it literal, it means Jesus has to have an infinite supply of blood, that new believers keep draining.
LOL. Sorry, excuse me, but that is so funny to me. I shouldn't laugh.
Jesus running out of blood?
Believers keep draining Him?
Oh thank you, what a good joke.
*when I stop laughing*

Let me give you a lesson on Christianity.
Some sects make their own Jesus blood out of an alcocolic beverage.
(The alcohol gives the little kiddies a bit of sting so they think something magic is happening.)
Other sects say that the blood is a judgment, made by the Judge over His people,
and not drink at all.
Lots go to the cross and drink some 2,000 year old dried up blood that Jesus bled on the cross,
and expect you to believe they do that.
It's true, I kid you not,
I have spoken to many, in my search for Jesus' blood.
And I have heard many weirder explanations than those,
but those are the common supplies of Jesus' blood,
none of which shall ever be in danger of running out.

I finally found Jesus blood,
where they all tell you not to look, of course.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls:
for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

Leviticus 17:11

And if literal, then, probably it will make your literal robes, blood red, followed by that ugly brownish red when blood dries up.
You read about white robes, say ugly brownish red.

Maybe that brownish red is your robe, and you are seeing though that?
Ever consider that?

For there is no reason why you should of seen brownish red when you were reading white.
Is there?

And of course it isn't literal.
Did I say that?
No, so wash your aura.

Let's give Jesus a break, assume that it is a means of expressing what the cross and the atonement did for us, and the on-going sanctification process by the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Saying His words didn't mean what they say, but mean what you would like to assume they mean,
isn't giving Jesus a break.

Should one spread lies about you, so you can have a break?

Keep Jesus sayings, as He said them.
All things you say I heard from many Christians before you,
but Jesus doesn't say them in the Bible.
Otherwise you could be quoting Him, not saying "assume".

Say what?? Please post a verse to support this fabricated nonsense. Wow, just wow! You really need to stop googling words, and then connecting them together. And this obsession with "washing?" All based on English word searches?
The verse came just before the explanation.

And, if you think my explanation is wrong, kindly explain what you reckon it means.
That's how reproof works, isn't it?

And this obsession with "washing?"
Don't you like clean?

The expression, Cleanliness is next to Godliness,
comes because of God's obsession with cleanliness and uncleanliness.

This is the law of the plague of leprosy in a garment of woollen or linen,
either in the warp, or woof, or any thing of skins,
to pronounce it clean, or to pronounce it unclean.

Leviticus 13:59

Leprosy here isn't referring to a particular disease, but to all uncleanliness and unease.

Ok, so totally works salvation for us priests? I don't think so!
It's too simple.
But you complicate the simplicity of Christ.
If we do the law, then the law won't condemn us.
And the commandments are not grievous.
They're a delight.

But his delight is in the law of the LORD;
and in His law doth he meditate day and night.

And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth his fruit in his season;
his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he does shall prosper.

Psalm 1:2-3
 
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
0
#79
I agree totally with obeying God, but not by interspersing it with Old Testament types, with totally different meanings and absolutely nothing to do with leprosy.
I gave you the meanings that Jesus gave me, when I communed with Him in the mount.

Read the curse of the law that so many warned us about,
to know what to obey, and to know how to avoid the curse.

A blessing,
if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:

And a curse,
if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God,
but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day,
to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

Deuteronomy 11:27-28

Which, in this case in Leviticus, certainly is literal, but never literal in the New Testament especially in Revelation, a symbolic book, if there ever was one.
Do you really believe "whatever thing of skin it be" that we need to wash, is literally your clothing?

As if God was worried about us cleaning leprosy disease out of our clothing.
First by burning the garments, and if they still aren't clean, then the leprosy is still on them.
Hang on. Could there be anything but ash left, after burning your clothes?
Because we have to clean them a second time.
And rip the plague from the clothing, if the fire hassn't burn it out.
Are you still believing this is all literal clothes washing.

Do you think God did a kind of "Handy tips" section on clothes washing in His law?

So, my suggestion is to stop thinking God has given you some great new revelation to support following the Levitical laws.
I realized my thoughts were not a good replacement for His words.
So they had to washed out. Nay, burned and ripped out.

And why take ye thought for raiment?
Matthew 6:28


And you do realize, there are 613 Levitical laws, which do not apply to us, because we are not from the tribe of Levi, and in fact, no Jew today knows which tribe he belongs to, since the genealogical records were lost when the Temple burned in 70 AD. And that was by God's design, so that people wouldn't come up with this kind of nonsense.
I don't say 613, because it is not a saying of Jesus.

Jesus says, all the words...
And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life:
that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes,
to do them:

Deuteronomy 17:19

Not just once,
And thou shalt write upon them all the words of this law, when thou art passed over,
that thou may go in unto the land which the LORD thy God gives thee,
a land that flows with milk and honey;
as the LORD God of thy fathers has promised thee.

Deuteronomy 27:3

Not just twice either,
And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly.
Deuteronomy 27:8

You are a lively stone in God, aren't you?
That means I have to write all the words of the law on you.
Four times?
Cursed be he that confirms not all the words of this law to do them.
And all the people shall say, Amen.
Deuteronomy 29:29

There is that curse again.
Surely He didn't say "all the words" of the law again.
Ah.. yep.
If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book,
that thou may fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;

Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful,
and the plagues of thy seed,
even great plagues, and of long continuance,
and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

Deuteronomy 27:58-59

I had to put two verse, because the saying goes over two verses.
Don't want to break Jesus' saying, do we?
What gets me is, how did those that say 613 miss God saying "all the words" of the law,
when He said it so many times?
The secret things belong unto the LORD our God:
but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever,
that we may do all the words of this law.

Deuteronomy 29:29

Beautiful verses, are they not?
I can't get over how perfect and poetic Jesus' sayings are.
And he said unto them,
Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day,
which ye shall command your children to observe to do,
all the words of this law.

Deuteronomy 32:36

Are you still going?
Well that is it in the law, searching for "all the words" of the law.
I could go and and do a search for "all the commandments" next,
but I won't.
You know, that is said even more times throughout God's word,
and not stopping at the New Testament either.

But search for the number 613, and you don't find it anywhere in the word.
So why keep that saying?
It is not of God!

Eisegesis is when someone has a theory or half baked idea, and reads, into the Bible what they want it to read. I can honestly say, this post is one of the top examples of this very wrong way to do Bible study! Exegesis is the RIGHT way to read the Bible. It means reading the Bible over and over, and letting the words speak OUT to you, ex being "out of" in Greek. (Eis means into)
Exegesis is also a stone some people throw at other people.
They do this to those who make a bullock that doesn't agree with the bullocks in their own herd.

It isn't really a reproof.
A real reproof is when they do their own exegesis in return,
and it is made from sound doctrine.

And then, read the whole Bible straight through about 10 or 20 times. Take a course on Bible hermeneutics, or Bible interpretation, and learn some of the things that have taken 3500 years to hammer out among scholars, clergy and laypeople.
I started by reading the gospels Matthew through John about 30 times, and then Jesus came.
After that I had my teacher, the Holy Ghost from Jesus.

It was He who taught me the law.
If it wasn't for my Holy Ghost from Jesus, I would never have thought to do it.
And I won't do courses, nor men for teachers.
But maybe, if I find one who is faithful to the word.
And who can offer me sound reproofs.

Reproving is the biggest blessing. You should try it.
The fruit of the tree of thinking you know right and wrong
stops any new thought or knowledge entering in.
That's what God calls death.

There is no higher knowledge that God's law.
Even Jesus walked in it when He was here as a man.

Why would any turn their back to it?
(Easy to say when you have fallen in love with it)
There are a number of people who post here sometimes we need to follow the law. But they know the Bible well, and do not just pull verses out of context and make up a bunch of utter disconnected nonsense.
Finally, I see you are flooding the forums with this nonsense. I loath putting you on ignore, but possibly reading all these ridiculous posts to tear them apart, because they are wrong from start to finish, is even less appealing. Again, put away the concordance, read up on hermeneutics, although a course or two would be better. Oh, and learn Greek and Hebrew, so that you can actually understand the intent of the authors to the audience in their time. And Biblical backgrounds.
Your solution is very easy.
Go to another forum.
Go to one of those Christians forums that immediately bans anyone who strays from the mainstream's covenant.

Then you ears my not hear "keep the law".

You must get "How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth" by Gordon Fee, read it a few times.
Like I said, I got a Holy Ghost.
What would I want Fee for?
To get me off Jesus' law, like you are?

And what does Fee teach in there?
How to get the Bible to say what you assume?

Since I don't agree with you, why would I take up your teachers?

He gets into literary background, book backgrounds a bit, and genre. It is all important. And you appear to not know a thing about how to read the bible, in any way, shape or form!
Really?
For me, it is Jesus' actual words, and what they say.
That is really the only important part for me.

But my faith is in it now.
I did waste a lot of time on history and background stuff when I was newbie.
But I didn't know then what I know now.
Nobody was telling me I had to do the law.

It took Jesus to tell me that.
Bless
Paul
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,957
113
#80
Melchizedek a Levite? This really shows your Bible knowledge, doesn’t it? That is to say, you have none!

Abraham paid Melchizedek a 10% tithe. So they were contemporaneous. Then Abraham had Isaac, after many years. Then Isaac had Jacob. Finally, Jacob had Levi, 11 others sons and some daughters. Levi was the great grandson of Abraham.

So Levi and his brother’s with some help from Joseph moved to Egypt to escape from a famine, and lived there for 400 years before God raised up Moses to take the Israelites back to Canaan. Then, during that 40 years in the desert, God finally started the Levitical priesthood. Some 500 years, more or less after Melchizedek.

This is is what I mean you not knowing the Bible. You pretend to be so intellectual, but you don’t even know basic biblical timelines. Melchizedek was NOT a Levitical priest, because that priesthood was not established for another 500 years after him!

Yet the one these things are spoken about belongs to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever officiated at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord is descended from Judah, yet Moses said nothing about priests in connection with that tribe. 15 And this is even clearer if another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest not by a legal regulation about physical descent but by the power of an indestructible life. 17 For here is the testimony about him: “You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.” Hebrews 7:14-17

Jesus is considered a priest in the order of Melchizedek because, like Melchizedek, Jesus was not a descendant of Aaron, and thus would not qualify for the Jewish priesthood under the Law of Moses.”

As for the rest of your ramblings, I can’t make his nor hair out of most of it. You contradict yourself, forget what I said, forget what you said, etc.

But one thing does come through clearly and that is your arrogant self fulfilling that you don’t need any teacher, or to be humble and learn anything, because God himself taught you! And yes, God does teach us, when we have a humble heart, and we are willing to listen to teachers and those who have studied show them self approved. Until you bow down and confess to God your sin of vain conceit, God is never going to be able to straighten up your mixed up, cobbled together concordance theology!