THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

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Dec 12, 2013
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^ dcon, (asking for clarification :) ), under your point "b," are you referring to the definite article being "the bride" in Rev21:2 [ https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/21-2.htm ]? or are you referring to elsewhere?
Thanks. :)
Yes.......the definite article "THE" is so under valued....it points to what is KNOWN.....for example..........

Judas is called -->THE SON of PERDITION
The BEAST is called -->THE SON of PERDITION

When John writes Revelation he states....

The Beast that...

WAS
IS NOT
SHALL ASCEND OUT OF THE PIT

Think on that and the use of "THE"
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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My only problem with the modern version of the bride is three fold

a. The Gentiles are called GUESTS at the wedding in the parables

b. The definite ARTICLE "THE" applied to NEW Jerusalem and it being called THE BRIDE coming down out of heaven ADORNED for HER HUSBAND

c. The fact that MANY go to seed and equate the LOVE Christ has for his CHURCH AS GROOM does for A BRIDE <---IT does NOT say SHE is the BRIDE, The comparison is LOVE not marriage

There are numerous things that were crammed down my throat growing up in church that I can no longer support after studying the word of GOD and letting it speak........
But the Paul said:

Ephesians 5:23 (YLT)
23 because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body,


Like I said, CHURCH was not in the BIBLE at least 200 years after BIBLE was written. The ASSEMBLY, can legitimately refer to all the saints of all time.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Yes.......the definite article "THE" is so under valued....it points to what is KNOWN.....for example..........
[…]
Think on that and the use of "THE"
So you ARE referring to the Rev21:2 verse??

I linked it (in my earlier post)... coz I am not seeing a "definite article" (associated with the word "bride") in that verse. Are you? [see link, maybe... EDITING to add that link again, here: https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/21-2.htm ]
 

VCO

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sad to hear.

i feel it in my heart, therefore its true. appeal to emotion.

you asked why do people get so upset about others being pre-trib. its because a false doctrine like that can cause people to be deceived in the end times. truth should always matter.

No when I say IN MY HEART, I am referring to my Born Again Human Spirit, NOT EMOTIONS. The Holy Spirit in my HEART, is my Teacher.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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So you ARE referring to the Rev21:2 verse??

I linked it (in my earlier post)... coz I am not seeing a "definite article" (associated with the word "bride") in that verse. Are you? [see link, maybe... EDITING to add that link again, here: https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/21-2.htm ]
I made the reference because of two sets of verses...the one you cited and Revelation 21:9

Then one of the seven angels with the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”


I referenced it here because three times it is applied especially the last line THE HUSBAND of HER and combined with the above verse

The city
The holy Jerusalem
The Husband of HER

3 times.......

ho, hé, to: the
Original Word: ὁ, ἡ, τό
Part of Speech: Definite Article
Transliteration: ho, hé, to
Phonetic Spelling: (ho)
Definition: the
Usage: the, the definite article.

καὶ τὴν πόλιν τὴν ἁγίαν Ἱερουσαλὴμ καινὴν εἶδον καταβαίνουσαν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ἀπὸ τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἡτοιμασμένην ὡς νύμφην κεκοσμημένην τῷ ἀνδρὶ αὐτῆς.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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But the Paul said:

Ephesians 5:23 (YLT)
23 because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body,


Like I said, CHURCH was not in the BIBLE at least 200 years after BIBLE was written. The ASSEMBLY, can legitimately refer to all the saints of all time.
Does not matter....the comparison and context is the head or WHO is in charge...NOT marriage bro.........
 

Melach

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Mar 28, 2019
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No when I say IN MY HEART, I am referring to my Born Again Human Spirit, NOT EMOTIONS. The Holy Spirit in my HEART, is my Teacher.
i know. but many post-tribbers say Holy Spirit told them its post-trib.

they got their dreams and visions like pretribbers.

its a stalemate
 

Melach

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I made the reference because of two sets of verses...the one you cited and Revelation 21:9

Then one of the seven angels with the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”


I referenced it here because three times it is applied especially the last line THE HUSBAND of HER and combined with the above verse

The city
The holy Jerusalem
The Husband of HER

3 times.......

ho, hé, to: the
Original Word: ὁ, ἡ, τό
Part of Speech: Definite Article
Transliteration: ho, hé, to
Phonetic Spelling: (ho)
Definition: the
Usage: the, the definite article.

καὶ τὴν πόλιν τὴν ἁγίαν Ἱερουσαλὴμ καινὴν εἶδον καταβαίνουσαν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ἀπὸ τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἡτοιμασμένην ὡς νύμφην κεκοσμημένην τῷ ἀνδρὶ αὐτῆς.
i thought i was only person in the world to say this.

i said this in a bible study and even the pastor didnt notice its talking about the city of new jerusalem lol. not the church.
one guy tried to say new jerusalem IS church(amill church)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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i thought i was only person in the world to say this.

i said this in a bible study and even the pastor didnt notice its talking about the city of new jerusalem lol. not the church.
one guy tried to say new jerusalem IS church(amill church)
My view....Christ uniting with the City and dwelling among men as God......but hey.....I will catch flack for sure.....almost everyone believes or states it is the CHURCH...........
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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Melach said:
hows it different events? both are second coming?

No they are NOT. Here is the evidence:

The Rapture happens VERY QUICKLY:

Matthew 24:27 (HCSB)
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (HCSB)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.


That does not count as a COMING, because HE STOPS In the upper atmosphere, and SENDS the Archangel to Call us OUT to go to the Wedding of the LAMB. When HIS FEET TOUCH EARTH AGAIN, that is a COMING, His Second Coming. IT IS EXTREMELY SLOW, so much so, that all the world will have time to Move their Armies to the Valley of Megiddo to try to stop HIM from setting foot on Earth again.
AND NOTICE THEY KNOW HE IS COMING, so that cannot be the time NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR.



Zechariah 14:1-9 (HCSB)
1 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence.
2 I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle. The city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women raped. Half the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle.
4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.
6 On that day there will be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish.
7 It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.
8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.
9 On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.

Revelation 19:11-21 (HCSB)
11 Then I saw heaven opened, and there was a white horse. Its rider is called Faithful and True, and He judges and makes war in righteousness.
12 His eyes were like a fiery flame, and many crowns were on His head. He had a name written that no one knows except Himself.
13 He wore a robe stained with blood, and His name is the Word of God.
14 The armies that were in heaven followed Him on white horses, wearing pure white linen.
15 A sharp sword came from His mouth, so that He might strike the nations with it. He will shepherd them with an iron scepter. He will also trample the winepress of the fierce anger of God, the Almighty.
16 And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh: KING OF KINGSAND LORD OF LORDS.
17 Then I saw an angel standing on the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice, saying to all the birds flying high overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great.”
19 Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and against His army.
20 But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with him the false prophet, who had performed the signs in his presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
21 The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Matthew 24:27 (HCSB)
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

NOTHING to do with the SPEED of the resurrection/change..........

AND you left off the other aspect of this verse......

IT has to do with it being VISIBLE.................!!
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The body of Christ is already married to Christ right now.

Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The man (Christ) is joined to his wife (me) and the two shall become ONE FLESH.

We are already members of the body of Christ which means the two have become ONE FLESH.

If this is not true, someone tell me how I'm not seeing this right.
 

Melach

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Mar 28, 2019
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1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (HCSB)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.


That does not count as a COMING, because HE STOPS In the upper atmosphere, and SENDS the Archangel to Call us OUT to go to the Wedding
we can call this proof-texting gone wrong

you say it doesnt count as a coming but read ONE VERSE before that:

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

guess what coming that is? its the second coming. THE parousia (one singular).
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The body of Christ is already married to Christ right now.

Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The man (Christ) is joined to his wife (me) and the two shall become ONE FLESH.

We are already members of the body of Christ which means the two have become ONE FLESH.

If this is not true, someone tell me how I'm not seeing this right.
If PAUL, who was inspired, taught by direct Revelation and writes almost half of the N.T. had a hard time understanding it and called it a mystery....I am fairly confident that NO one on this site can fully grasp the truth of it!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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i thought i was only person in the world to say this.

i said this in a bible study and even the pastor didnt notice its talking about the city of new jerusalem lol. not the church.
one guy tried to say new jerusalem IS church(amill church)


When it says ADORNED AS A BRIDE, that is not calling the Fathers HOUSE the BRIDE. It is a Jewish expression that the House will be made up as the BRIDE HERSELF IS MADE UP. It always took play in the Father's House, Here are some Homes that are Adorned as a Bride:


Notice the Bride is VAILED, and SO IS THE HOUSE.




 
Nov 23, 2013
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If PAUL, who was inspired, taught by direct Revelation and writes almost half of the N.T. had a hard time understanding it and called it a mystery....I am fairly confident that NO one on this site can fully grasp the truth of it!
I'm sorry but I never saw a place in that passage where Paul said HE didn't understand the mystery. Granted it's a great mystery to most, but not to Paul... I mean come on, HE TOLD US he was speaking about Christ and his bride.

Could you point out where Paul said he didn't understand the great mystery please?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I'm sorry but I never saw a place in that passage where Paul said HE didn't understand the mystery. Granted it's a great mystery to most, but not to Paul... I mean come on, HE TOLD US he was speaking about Christ and his bride.

Could you point out where Paul said he didn't understand the great mystery please?
If you cannot honestly embrace what PAUL said in the following verse bro....just forget responding to me on this issue.....the grammar is clear!

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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WELCOME, brother Ahwatukee. Long time no see. I had four strokes the first week of January. One was bad enough to put me in the hospital for three days. Then they Put me on Xaelto, a blood thinner, and it seems to be the right CHOICE. Doing GOOD ever since.

I also believe the Old Testament Saints will be part of the BRIDE TOO. Where I get that from:

John 10:14-16 (HCSB)
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
15 as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.


We are the other sheep AND after they are Complete, Then there will be one shepherd at the RAPTURE.

The Fold he is talking to is the LAST OF THE OLD TESTAMENT SAINTS, because the Birthday of the CHURCH is not until Pentecost.

Now, the word Church was not in the BIBLE, until 200 - 300 A.D.

What did JESUS all the New Testament Saints? We find it in the YLT.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
Hello VCO! Very sorry to hear about all the strokes and all in that one month!!! It's good that you're doing well on Xaelto. It's even better to know that when the Lord does take you, your spirit will be in best place you could ever be in and free of all that, looking for your immortal and glorified body.

In regards to the OT saints, I don't believe that they are apart of the church, but belong to the OT saints of Israel and will most likely be resurrected at the time when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age.

Regarding "other sheep" I have always believed that Jesus was referring to the Gentile believers, not the OT saints.

Also, because Jesus said, " I will build My church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it," with "I will build" being in the "future, indicative, active" tense, meaning that the church hadn't been built yet and therefore could not include the OT saints. Otherwise He would have said, "I will continue to build, or I will add to."

Hence, the O.T. Saints, the N.T. Saints, and the Tribulation Saints, are all part of the Bride of Christ.
I also do not believe that the tribulation saints are apart of the church. In my understanding, the church period ends when the Lord appears to gather us. This is why the word ekklesia/church is never used to describe the great tribulation saints. The fact that after John had previously written letters to the seven churches and then in chapter 7 the elder asks John who these in white robes are, would infer that they were not the church. In further support of this, John doesn't recognize who this group is, ergo, not the church.