The Catholics and my conclusion
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Once again, After a casual reading of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-46), these verses "on the surface" seem to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. All Scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of Scripture. This passage has to be taken alongside the whole of Scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 etc... One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation. This is not performance based salvation, but salvation based performance. The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 are merely the fruit that will be manifest in the lives of the redeemed. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because Christ imputed His righteousness to them (Romans 4:2-6; Philippians 3:9). When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the result of, not the condition of, receiving salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof), not simply on the faith from which these works follow. So it is understandable that in this context, Matthew would stress the works that are a manifestation of "faith by which one receives eternal life." Notice how love for other Christians is an indication of one's salvation status: 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. He who practices righteousness and loves his brother does so BECAUSE he is "of God" not to become of God. 1 John 3:14 - We know that we have (past tense) passed from death to life, because we love our brothers (present tense). Loving our brothers is the result of, not the condition of passing from death to life. You still have the tail wagging the dog, the cart before the horse.
Faith that remains alone (barren of works) is not genuine faith in the first place but is an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14-24) so your argument to try and disprove that we are saved through faith IN CHRIST ALONE and NOT BY WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9) has once again failed. Of course Jesus would say go and do the same. Good works are what we are saved FOR but NOT by (Ephesians 2:10). For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Nothing there about being saved by works.
The Philippian jailor in Acts 16:30 asked a question: "What must I do to be saved?" What is the answer in verse 31 epostle?
Faith that remains alone (barren of works) is not genuine faith in the first place but is an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14-24) so your argument to try and disprove that we are saved through faith IN CHRIST ALONE and NOT BY WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9) has once again failed. Of course Jesus would say go and do the same. Good works are what we are saved FOR but NOT by (Ephesians 2:10). For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Nothing there about being saved by works.
The Philippian jailor in Acts 16:30 asked a question: "What must I do to be saved?" What is the answer in verse 31 epostle?
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Actually its the Catholic Church that has false assumptions. Epostle is teaching the lies of the Catholic Church over the Truth. Kiss73, there is only one source for the Truth from God and that is God Himself.
Let me ask you a question Kiss73, are you saved?
Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? Have you received Salvation? Have you received the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
John 3:36
[SUP]36 [/SUP] He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
1 John 1:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 5:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Romans 10:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Let me ask you a question Kiss73, are you saved?
Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? Have you received Salvation? Have you received the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
John 3:36
[SUP]36 [/SUP] He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
1 John 1:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 5:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Romans 10:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
That is a ridiculous statement. It's IMPOSSIBLE to get saved AFTER judgment. By then it's way too late. That's why people are getting saved NOW, before Jesus returns. "Saved is a fallacy"? Seriously, you have issues..major issues.. I suppose Christ dying on the cross is a fallacy too? A made-up myth of some sort? lol
P
I'll take a stab at it:
1 Corinthians 1:18
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Or perhaps...
2 Timothy 1:8-9
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
But in my view, the clearest statement in all of Scripture which teaches that salvation is secure is this:
Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
The context is one of which pertains to remission of sins through the Sacrifice of Christ. While might try to make that fact that the sanctification here is an ongoing process (which is not according to v.10 of this chapter), what cannot be argued is the statement's intent: we have received forgiveness in completion.
And if there is no sin for which God has not forgiven us for, then there is simply no way to construe a scenario in which somehow we could be separated from God.
God bless.
1 Corinthians 1:18
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Or perhaps...
2 Timothy 1:8-9
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
But in my view, the clearest statement in all of Scripture which teaches that salvation is secure is this:
Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
The context is one of which pertains to remission of sins through the Sacrifice of Christ. While might try to make that fact that the sanctification here is an ongoing process (which is not according to v.10 of this chapter), what cannot be argued is the statement's intent: we have received forgiveness in completion.
And if there is no sin for which God has not forgiven us for, then there is simply no way to construe a scenario in which somehow we could be separated from God.
God bless.
Jesus said, “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life." Again, has is used in the present tense. John tells us we can know, but Roman Catholics say they cannot know, and that we are (insert some negative adjective here) for believing what Scripture explicitly teaches.
Amen! John 3:36 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Regarding the saved issue, I have this to say: Lots of people want fire insurance. They want a life free from uncertainty and risk. Engaging with the enigmatic, all-powerful, Creator of the universe is fraught with risk.
If even HUMAN relationships are full of risks like, "how do I know you love me like I love you," "if I reveal myself will you still love me," "can I love you to the degree that you love me," "can I trust you to take care of me" how much MORE risky is it to build a relationship with the Creator that we cannot see? It takes faith and trust...and these are constantly ebbing and flowing. I may trust God greatly regarding sickness, but not so much with my financials. I may believe God died for the world, but does he really love me personally and have an investment in me as an individual? We are constantly negotiating these kinds of emotions because God is constantly leading us to trust more, trust deeply, and it's HARD.
Additionally, there's an already/not yet element to the scriptures. The people who say, "I am saved" are focusing on the "already" verses. The people who claim "no one is technically saved until the judgement" are focusing on the "not yet" verses. (Remember, the GOATS thought they were saved too and they were SEPARATED from the sheep at the judgement). It's not that either interpretation is wrong, they're just focusing on different scriptures.
This, imo, is part of what makes the Christian life harrowing and delightful. Developing a relationship with the Creator is not for the weak...and yet when we are weak, then we are strong. The constant paradox of it is a reminder that salvation is from the Lord. If we could sort it out on our own, we would...but humanity has yet to manage it.
If even HUMAN relationships are full of risks like, "how do I know you love me like I love you," "if I reveal myself will you still love me," "can I love you to the degree that you love me," "can I trust you to take care of me" how much MORE risky is it to build a relationship with the Creator that we cannot see? It takes faith and trust...and these are constantly ebbing and flowing. I may trust God greatly regarding sickness, but not so much with my financials. I may believe God died for the world, but does he really love me personally and have an investment in me as an individual? We are constantly negotiating these kinds of emotions because God is constantly leading us to trust more, trust deeply, and it's HARD.
Additionally, there's an already/not yet element to the scriptures. The people who say, "I am saved" are focusing on the "already" verses. The people who claim "no one is technically saved until the judgement" are focusing on the "not yet" verses. (Remember, the GOATS thought they were saved too and they were SEPARATED from the sheep at the judgement). It's not that either interpretation is wrong, they're just focusing on different scriptures.
This, imo, is part of what makes the Christian life harrowing and delightful. Developing a relationship with the Creator is not for the weak...and yet when we are weak, then we are strong. The constant paradox of it is a reminder that salvation is from the Lord. If we could sort it out on our own, we would...but humanity has yet to manage it.
Why are many people down on the Catholics. Being catholic or Baptist or belonging to any of todays church's can't save anyone. Jesus Christ finds and saves his chosen people no matter where they go or what they do. All need a Saviour and his name is Jesus Christ. Pray for God's elected blood bought children where ever they are, and tell them their need of a Saviour who gives eternal life. Keeping the Law or getting baptized or choosing God or anything you do can save you. Jesus Christ saves his people and we need to pray for his own where ever they find themselves.
You have been lied to and deceived by Satan Kiss73. We do have Eternal Life and we do receive Salvation the minute we believe that Jesus is God.
Titus 3:4-7
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
We do not receive Salvation by Works like Catholicism teaches. We do not receive Salvation after we die like Catholicism teaches.
If you die without Salvation you can never enter into Heaven Kiss73.
Acts 2:16-21
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.'
Romans 8:24
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For we were saved in this hope
Romans 10:9-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
We do receive Salvation while still alive here on this World Kiss73. You have been deceived Kiss73 into believing a lie, a lie that will put you in the Lake of Fire for all Eternity.
This Doctrine of receiving Salvation after death and the Doctrines of Mary being without Sin and our Mediator proves that today the Catholic Church has walked away from God to follow the god of this world today.
Reject the Catholic Church, reject Mary Kiss73, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, receive your Salvation and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and you too can then enter into Heaven with me.
For i have accepted Jesus, i have received Salvation, i have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, i have been made Righteous, i have been Justified by God and i am beaning Sanctified by God.
Walk with us True Christians Kiss73, walk with God Kiss73, and you too can enter into Heaven with us. If you keep on the road you are on you will never enter into Heaven Kiss73.
Titus 3:4-7
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
We do not receive Salvation by Works like Catholicism teaches. We do not receive Salvation after we die like Catholicism teaches.
If you die without Salvation you can never enter into Heaven Kiss73.
Acts 2:16-21
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.'
Romans 8:24
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For we were saved in this hope
Romans 10:9-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
We do receive Salvation while still alive here on this World Kiss73. You have been deceived Kiss73 into believing a lie, a lie that will put you in the Lake of Fire for all Eternity.
This Doctrine of receiving Salvation after death and the Doctrines of Mary being without Sin and our Mediator proves that today the Catholic Church has walked away from God to follow the god of this world today.
Reject the Catholic Church, reject Mary Kiss73, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, receive your Salvation and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and you too can then enter into Heaven with me.
For i have accepted Jesus, i have received Salvation, i have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, i have been made Righteous, i have been Justified by God and i am beaning Sanctified by God.
Walk with us True Christians Kiss73, walk with God Kiss73, and you too can enter into Heaven with us. If you keep on the road you are on you will never enter into Heaven Kiss73.
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M
I fear for this lady and anyone else deceived in the doctrine of Catholicism. As others have said, the Bible is clear. I know this lady has been banned and I'm sorry about that for she has much to learn. If she is reading this I urge her not to listen to any doctrine - church or otherwise but to put her faith in the word of God. Study the Bible, pray for God to guide you in your understanding of it. Give you life to Jesus ASAP and form a relationship with Him through prayer. Do not be deceived, after death it is too late!
I think we all need to be praying for this lady.
I think we all need to be praying for this lady.
P
First, please post the Catholic Doctrine that teaches that the Catholic Church teaches the Catholic Church saves people.
Secondly, quote the Catholic that teaches that the Catholic Church saves people.
Third, his point is being down on Catholics...not Catholic Doctrine.
That's good advice, so perhaps you can educate me as to why standing against Catholic Doctrines which are in error translates to a license to judgment, especially judgment as undiscerning as you are in the habit of passing down.
You...care?
That's a riot.
God bless.