For why would you prayer for your kings and men in authority? Is it so that they can stay in office, etc.? No. One would pray for them so as to lead them to Jesus Christ. That is our goal that is our mission. In fact, it is the Great Commission (i.e. Co-mission (the letters "Co" involving many of the brethren).
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People just see Jesus around a politician and they assume Jesus is involved in politics. The person in the video made this wrong assumption in Matthew 23:23. In other words, just because I am hanging around a mechanic for a day doesn't mean I am involved in auto repair. My purpose to hang out with that mechanic could have been to tell him more about Jesus Christ.
See, when Jesus was before Herod, Jesus was on a mission to minister to the world and to die upon the cross for man's sins so as to save us. Jesus did not fall into the hands of Herod to discuss world policies.
See, when Jesus was before Herod, Jesus was on a mission to minister to the world and to die upon the cross for man's sins so as to save us. Jesus did not fall into the hands of Herod to discuss world policies.
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I watched the video also. Political activism may involve opposing bad morals and sinful acts, but this does nothing to address the root problem; inner rebellion against the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
Our job is to preach Jesus Christ, not legislate morality. This will not change the heart of mankind. The Catholic Crusaders of days gone bye tried it your way. It was a disaster. Morality needs to come from the heart, not the laws of the land.
Our job is to preach Jesus Christ, not legislate morality. This will not change the heart of mankind. The Catholic Crusaders of days gone bye tried it your way. It was a disaster. Morality needs to come from the heart, not the laws of the land.
I pray for the best possible worldly rulers in that I desire the mercy of the Lord enacted through them at least for a little while longer. I have young grandsons who Love Jesus... Maybe if the end is prolonged by His Mercy through my prayer, they may one day be able to witness the Name of Jesus to someone else before the end comes.
But I'd sure never go out and vote, as though Jesus' needed that instead of prayer, bonk bonk, is this thing on? lol
But I'd sure never go out and vote, as though Jesus' needed that instead of prayer, bonk bonk, is this thing on? lol
I don't look at political affairs (trying to decide who is best) because I feel it would be like sliding back into the ways of the world. Concerning myelf with the world affairs as if God needed me to help out suggests that God actually needs me to do His job for Him. But God is in control of what happens with the world.
Besides, God already has a job for me. Love God, love others, preach the gospel, and help the poor. I believe God wants me to pray to lead the world leaders to Jesus Christ. That should be the extent of my prayers for them. It is not for them to stay in office and to do some kind of good. The best good for my world leader is for them to be saved.
Besides, God already has a job for me. Love God, love others, preach the gospel, and help the poor. I believe God wants me to pray to lead the world leaders to Jesus Christ. That should be the extent of my prayers for them. It is not for them to stay in office and to do some kind of good. The best good for my world leader is for them to be saved.
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I must disagree. Jesus took the keys away from Satan, defeated him conclusively. Satan is like a deposed banana republic dictator that continues to rule through fear, ignoring the will of the people. Think about it. They say the 1%ers rule through wealth. They are 1% of the vote, and they, the 1%, vote independent, republican, democrat, whatever. Their vote is negligible. The great wealth of the 1% about equally split between Democrat and Republican, so that vote is already split. The PEOPLE could vote for a godly nation, but they fear the 1%? ?????? Get a life. THIS is the time for Christians to make a difference that can assure the right to continue to preach the gospel of Christ. Let's not let a tiny minority influence us.
But, if the PEOPLE do nothing, or the PEOPLE do the wrong thing, the spread of the gospel can be throttled, gospel donations could easily be taxed on the side of contributor and receiving ministry by changing donation regulations. All that has been tried, and hangs on for some open door to shut down the gospel on TV, on radio, in churches, even on the streets.
If you decide not to vote to protect such freedoms as we still have, will you accept clothing from city dumps, food from the same source, homelessness, and all the other curses Satan has for you? Is your faith strong enough for such possibilities?
I have personally met and shaked hands with many politicians. Almost all are active church members, well respected. Some incumbents have become corrupted to some degree, but are still listening to reason. Some have departed from sensibility. They are the ones to vote OUT. Some deserve another chance. Some are neighbors you know will take Jesus' side.
Jesus is not running for any office. He has total rulership when He returns. Meanwhile, the Christian duty is to decide who most has shown support had Jesus already returned. The way I look at history and the Bible, the more I believe a vote today could delay the rulership of Jesus another generation or more. If we humans choose to endure hardship another century, God will allow it. He is not obligated to rescue us who value liberty and freedom while defying righteousness.
But, if the PEOPLE do nothing, or the PEOPLE do the wrong thing, the spread of the gospel can be throttled, gospel donations could easily be taxed on the side of contributor and receiving ministry by changing donation regulations. All that has been tried, and hangs on for some open door to shut down the gospel on TV, on radio, in churches, even on the streets.
If you decide not to vote to protect such freedoms as we still have, will you accept clothing from city dumps, food from the same source, homelessness, and all the other curses Satan has for you? Is your faith strong enough for such possibilities?
I have personally met and shaked hands with many politicians. Almost all are active church members, well respected. Some incumbents have become corrupted to some degree, but are still listening to reason. Some have departed from sensibility. They are the ones to vote OUT. Some deserve another chance. Some are neighbors you know will take Jesus' side.
Jesus is not running for any office. He has total rulership when He returns. Meanwhile, the Christian duty is to decide who most has shown support had Jesus already returned. The way I look at history and the Bible, the more I believe a vote today could delay the rulership of Jesus another generation or more. If we humans choose to endure hardship another century, God will allow it. He is not obligated to rescue us who value liberty and freedom while defying righteousness.
For those among us believing it doesn't matter how people vote, understand it this way. Sovereign holy God consciously allows a wicked ruler to slaughter millions of innocent people. It is a fact that human rulers have done that throughout the millennia. If sovereign, one has power to prevent that, at least stop it from continuing. If sovereign, one has power to allow subjects to accept unholy rulership. No, God is not holding power over our politics. He allows us to choose between Jesus and Satan. Satan is on the side of wicked human control. God is on the side of rulers pursuing righteousness. Satan likes humanists. Period.
Suppose the PEOPLE decide all that is illegal. You may not have utilities, a home, an address, any rights. Are you ready for that? How will you promote Christ? I really don't think God meant persecution of Christians to go that far, but it has happened in the past. Just because atrocities have happened to many generations of Christians, I can't justify that is expected of all of us. Ignorance ushered in many sufferings. I am convinced that a large percentage of Christians suffered extreme persecution for no biblical reason. Jesus suffered that for us. I don't see in the new covenant in Christ a conciliation for that as expected.
So VOTE. You now have 30 minutes to get in line. Once in line they will likely let your vote count. GO.
So VOTE. You now have 30 minutes to get in line. Once in line they will likely let your vote count. GO.
You are entitled to your opinion, but you would be hard pressed to find any Biblical example or Scripture verse to back up what you are saying, my friend.
Okay, let me get this straight. You believe Satan is defeated by Jesus Christ and yet you believe that the gospel has the potential to fail?
Never.
God is sovereign over what the devil can do and can't do. For Satan needed permission from God to afflict Job. Why do you think God is powerless now (Whereby you think you need to get involved in politics to help him)?
Also, what you are asking me to do is to join in on choosing the best Mafia boss who can do the best amount of good. Yes, you can choose whichever Mafia boss you like that you think protects our freedom and who you think would expand our cause of the gospel. If you were in Brazil, I would have no problem in your voting because you would be obeying the Law of the Land (As God would want you to do). But seeing we have the choice to follow Jesus Christ or to concern ourselves with the world's affairs, I would choose the former instead of the latter.
Our country only has freedom and prosperity BECAUSE God has allowed them to have it. I thank God for these freedoms and blessings that are upon this nation. I don't thank the evil world system. My allegiance, life and mission is to Jesus Christ. Not to this world.
Jesus says, narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it. Not many. So I am not impressed by what you have experienced in church. If we do not see it in the Bible, then it doesn't exist.
Anyways, my willful involvment in a fallen world evil system is not my goal. Jesus Christ is my goal and preaching Him crucified. Worrying about what evil world leader is going to do or not do (Based on some kind of vote on my part) is not mentioned in the Bible. Good look finding the verse.
Okay, let me get this straight. You believe Satan is defeated by Jesus Christ and yet you believe that the gospel has the potential to fail?
Never.
God is sovereign over what the devil can do and can't do. For Satan needed permission from God to afflict Job. Why do you think God is powerless now (Whereby you think you need to get involved in politics to help him)?
Also, what you are asking me to do is to join in on choosing the best Mafia boss who can do the best amount of good. Yes, you can choose whichever Mafia boss you like that you think protects our freedom and who you think would expand our cause of the gospel. If you were in Brazil, I would have no problem in your voting because you would be obeying the Law of the Land (As God would want you to do). But seeing we have the choice to follow Jesus Christ or to concern ourselves with the world's affairs, I would choose the former instead of the latter.
Our country only has freedom and prosperity BECAUSE God has allowed them to have it. I thank God for these freedoms and blessings that are upon this nation. I don't thank the evil world system. My allegiance, life and mission is to Jesus Christ. Not to this world.
Jesus says, narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it. Not many. So I am not impressed by what you have experienced in church. If we do not see it in the Bible, then it doesn't exist.
Anyways, my willful involvment in a fallen world evil system is not my goal. Jesus Christ is my goal and preaching Him crucified. Worrying about what evil world leader is going to do or not do (Based on some kind of vote on my part) is not mentioned in the Bible. Good look finding the verse.
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Mark 2:13-17
13 And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude resorted unto him, and he taught them.
14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.
15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
13 And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude resorted unto him, and he taught them.
14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.
15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
You might have a few moments of gospel preaching remaining while imprisoned for doing what John the Baptist did. It is far easier to take advantage of our rights to install godly rulers that can extend that right. John didn't have that right. Americans do to some extent. Who else? Will you legally give financial support to a gospel preacher if and when that becomes illegal? Or will you say "The people decided, the preachers are on their own, I can't declare that as a tax exemption." Are we all to that point of commitment to continue spreading the gospel whatever the cost?
The first century Church didn't have the force of rights like envisioned today. Many of them suffered due to zero rights under some earthly ruler. Are we, the Church, protected under U.S. Constitutional rights willing to go it on our own, on the basis of God supposedly ruling as a holy God by holy sovereignty?
Let not our holy God be named as participant in unholy desires of mankind!
The first century Church didn't have the force of rights like envisioned today. Many of them suffered due to zero rights under some earthly ruler. Are we, the Church, protected under U.S. Constitutional rights willing to go it on our own, on the basis of God supposedly ruling as a holy God by holy sovereignty?
Let not our holy God be named as participant in unholy desires of mankind!
Curious of two things....
1. Which Greek word is translated vote in the verses mentioned?.....and...
2. Which verse states that I am any less spiritual than one who votes because I choose not to vote?
1. Which Greek word is translated vote in the verses mentioned?.....and...
2. Which verse states that I am any less spiritual than one who votes because I choose not to vote?
The Palestinians could of had a more peaceful...oh never mind
Again, you act like God is not sovereign. Is it not good to bury your own father? Is that not loving? And good? Could you not witness at his funeral? Jesus says, let the dead bury their own dead. Your not listening to Jesus concerning this matter. Following by sight unseen. See, you are looking at what you can do physically. This is not a walk by faith. Jesus calls us to walk by faith. The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness. Do you think God's hands are tied behind his back because I don't act to vote? Where is your faith that God is good? What verse tells me to get involved in politics? If your argument had any weight to it, then surely Scripture would back you up. But it doesn't. It is dead silent. Why is that? Shouldn't that silence disturb you?
I want you to take a step back a moment. Step out of yourself and the little world you live in for a second. Think of the bigger picture of what is happening. Do you think that when you stub your toe by accident that it is an accident? I don't. I believe everything happens for a purpose and reason for God's greater purpose and glory. I believe Romans 8:28. It says ALL things work together for good to them that love God. It does not say, all things work together for good to them that become a part of the world's affairs so as to vote in an evil leader (That doesn't believe the gospel of Jesus Christ). See, you are looking on the surface of things. Making a move based on what you can SEE and not on what you cannot see (Which is faith). For faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Ask yourself if your voting is more sight unseen like faith or if it is more in line with walking by sight.
Anyways, I say this not to wound you, but I say this in love so as to lead you to the truth on this matter.
Please be well.
And may God bless you greatly.
Sincerely,
~Jason.
...
I want you to take a step back a moment. Step out of yourself and the little world you live in for a second. Think of the bigger picture of what is happening. Do you think that when you stub your toe by accident that it is an accident? I don't. I believe everything happens for a purpose and reason for God's greater purpose and glory. I believe Romans 8:28. It says ALL things work together for good to them that love God. It does not say, all things work together for good to them that become a part of the world's affairs so as to vote in an evil leader (That doesn't believe the gospel of Jesus Christ). See, you are looking on the surface of things. Making a move based on what you can SEE and not on what you cannot see (Which is faith). For faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Ask yourself if your voting is more sight unseen like faith or if it is more in line with walking by sight.
Anyways, I say this not to wound you, but I say this in love so as to lead you to the truth on this matter.
Please be well.
And may God bless you greatly.
Sincerely,
~Jason.
...
I say this because whatever is not of faith is sin. Faith is a walk that is sight unseen. Voting is having faith in an evil world leader to do God's job for you. Let God worry about if you can preach the gospel in your country or not. For I know that if such a thing were to happen, no vote would be able to stop it. Remember, the system is corrupt. But Jesus is always good. Have faith in Jesus Christ and not in the system.
Sorry to get back to you so much later in the thread!
My point is that this is the BIBLE discussion forum, and politics has NOTHING to do with the Bible! Not American, Canadian or any other country!!
The Kingdom of God is not going to come through the intervention of a political party, a country or an election. In fact, there is no country in the world in its present form that is actually mentioned in the Bible, although some would like to include the secular, modern day state of Israel as a "Bible" country. Not so much!
Freedom of speech is also not mentioned in the Bible, although it seems an important value to many Americans. The fact is, the early church had no vote, no say in government, and were persecuted for believing in Jesus.
I just don't get why so many Americans somehow think they are going to change the hearts of Americans by voting for a political party! Only the Holy Spirit can change hearts and lives.
And while I am certainly sympathetic with some aspects of the conservative agenda (no abortion, no gay marriage, etc, etc), I have a lot of objections to the selfishness of a lot of conservatives, at least as I interpret their belief systems as presented on FB. (I know, not a good source!)
As for Canadians having an issue, I think not! In fact, you seem to be extremely reactionary to anyone who dares to challenge your American belief system, which is found in your constitution, but not in the Bible.
As for governments, the early church did just fine under Imperial Rome, even if thousands of Christians were persecuted and died for believing in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died on the cross for their sins and rose from the dead.
I really hate it when I have to post an entire post in the BDF without supporting it with scripture! But that is my whole point! This topic has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible, but rather an agenda being fostered in the right wing media of the US.
I am not anti- American, but my hope and desire is that American Christians (like Canadian, British, Aussie, etc!) would wake up and realize that the Kingdom of God is simply never going to be found in politics, voting or elections! Find those words in your Bible concordance!
"Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, [SUP]21 [/SUP]nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” Luke 17:20-21
There! I found a verse! Now I feel better.
My point is that this is the BIBLE discussion forum, and politics has NOTHING to do with the Bible! Not American, Canadian or any other country!!
The Kingdom of God is not going to come through the intervention of a political party, a country or an election. In fact, there is no country in the world in its present form that is actually mentioned in the Bible, although some would like to include the secular, modern day state of Israel as a "Bible" country. Not so much!
Freedom of speech is also not mentioned in the Bible, although it seems an important value to many Americans. The fact is, the early church had no vote, no say in government, and were persecuted for believing in Jesus.
I just don't get why so many Americans somehow think they are going to change the hearts of Americans by voting for a political party! Only the Holy Spirit can change hearts and lives.
And while I am certainly sympathetic with some aspects of the conservative agenda (no abortion, no gay marriage, etc, etc), I have a lot of objections to the selfishness of a lot of conservatives, at least as I interpret their belief systems as presented on FB. (I know, not a good source!)
As for Canadians having an issue, I think not! In fact, you seem to be extremely reactionary to anyone who dares to challenge your American belief system, which is found in your constitution, but not in the Bible.
As for governments, the early church did just fine under Imperial Rome, even if thousands of Christians were persecuted and died for believing in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died on the cross for their sins and rose from the dead.
I really hate it when I have to post an entire post in the BDF without supporting it with scripture! But that is my whole point! This topic has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible, but rather an agenda being fostered in the right wing media of the US.
I am not anti- American, but my hope and desire is that American Christians (like Canadian, British, Aussie, etc!) would wake up and realize that the Kingdom of God is simply never going to be found in politics, voting or elections! Find those words in your Bible concordance!
"Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, [SUP]21 [/SUP]nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” Luke 17:20-21
There! I found a verse! Now I feel better.
Hmm! I'm not sure where in my post I said "Don't vote!" Of course we vote! But this whole concept of a democracy based on two political parties, one Christian, one not, simply does not work out in reality. The US was no more Christian under the Bushes than under Clinton or Obama. Abortion still existed and was not stopped by previous Republican presidents. To use abortion as a reason to vote Republican is a twisting of logic and reason, because sadly, as in Canada, NO party in power is ever going to override the judiciary and bring back the days of limited abortion.
This whole nonsense of the Republican party being THE Christian party is just garbage. In Canada, we actually had the Reform party a few decades ago, unabashedly Christian, which wanted to reform the Senate, and get rid of abortion. Somehow the leaders got co-opted into the Progressive Conservative Party, which never brought any Christian reforms at all. So ends all political movements, which is NOT what the Kingdom of God is about!
As for your Eph. 6 quote, I distinctly see the words "spiritual wickedness in high places." What exactly do you think the word SPIRITUAL means? It does not mean governments! It means evil in the spiritual realms, which can only be dealt with by the defensive full armour of God, especially the sword of the Word.
ESV says,
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places" Eph. 6:12
Really, a poorer exegetical use of Eph.6, I have never heard before!! Read the whole passage and you will understand what Paul was really talking about!
"In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; [SUP]17 [/SUP]and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, [SUP]18 [/SUP]praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, [SUP]20 [/SUP]for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak." Eph. 6:16-20
Please note that Paul is addressing his spiritual battle to spread the gospel, not to overthrown a corrupt and evil Imperial Roman government!!
So do vote, but please realize that only Jesus Christ changes hearts and lives, and governments are just things we have to put up till our real King takes over!
This whole nonsense of the Republican party being THE Christian party is just garbage. In Canada, we actually had the Reform party a few decades ago, unabashedly Christian, which wanted to reform the Senate, and get rid of abortion. Somehow the leaders got co-opted into the Progressive Conservative Party, which never brought any Christian reforms at all. So ends all political movements, which is NOT what the Kingdom of God is about!
As for your Eph. 6 quote, I distinctly see the words "spiritual wickedness in high places." What exactly do you think the word SPIRITUAL means? It does not mean governments! It means evil in the spiritual realms, which can only be dealt with by the defensive full armour of God, especially the sword of the Word.
ESV says,
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places" Eph. 6:12
Really, a poorer exegetical use of Eph.6, I have never heard before!! Read the whole passage and you will understand what Paul was really talking about!
"In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; [SUP]17 [/SUP]and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, [SUP]18 [/SUP]praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, [SUP]20 [/SUP]for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak." Eph. 6:16-20
Please note that Paul is addressing his spiritual battle to spread the gospel, not to overthrown a corrupt and evil Imperial Roman government!!
So do vote, but please realize that only Jesus Christ changes hearts and lives, and governments are just things we have to put up till our real King takes over!