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K
Video didnt show and wont let me edit...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYYVpy84DMc#t=207
See, my friend. What you are doing is voting for an evil leader hoping that evil leader will do more good than bad. But a bad tree cannot ulltimately bring forth good fruit. Even their good has another dark agenda. What you are doing is playing damage control in a corrupt world system that is doomed to be destroyed by Jesus Christ Himself. Oh, and yes. Make no mistake about it. The nations of this Earth will try and destroy Jesus Christ. But Jesus will win that battle and it will not be America (When Jesus returns to end this world). Why do you need to concern yourself with the world and your old way of doing things? Do you still want to be a part of the world or do you want to be a part of the Kingdom of God? Let it go, my friend. Follow Jesus and preach His Word and the world will bury itself.
"Follow me."
But he said,
"Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father."
Jesus said unto him,
"Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God."
And another also said,
"Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house."
And Jesus said unto him,
"No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
(Luke 9:60-62).
"Follow me."
But he said,
"Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father."
Jesus said unto him,
"Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God."
And another also said,
"Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house."
And Jesus said unto him,
"No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
(Luke 9:60-62).
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So Christians who are too busy doing missionary work in preaching the gospel and in helping the poor are dead elephants, too? Where are your priorities? Is it the world and it's affairs? Or is it Jesus Christ and preachiing the gospel? For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness.
P
You two watch the video and give scripture to support your refusal to assist your neighbor. Neither one of you can back up your stance on this issue with scripture. I have, and Frank Turek will do a better job then me. Yet both of you reject what you are hearing from me or anyone else on this issue to maintain a non-scriptural position while wanting us to believe you are Christians. That is asinine!
And by the way oyster, that is not an accusation. That is an observation.
And by the way oyster, that is not an accusation. That is an observation.
If you are obedient in this...
1 Timothy 2:1-2
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
...then you also should vote. It's not above our 'spirituality' to do so.
1 Timothy 2:1-2
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
...then you also should vote. It's not above our 'spirituality' to do so.
Well, 13 minutes into the video and I have to say this.
His first point is that politics effect the gospel. Wrong. God and His people is what ultimately effects the gospel in being a reality. Who is behind the politics? God is. If you think our world system is not in control of God for His ultimate good, than you have another thing coming. Look at the story of Joseph. What his brothers intended for evil against him, God intended it for good (Genesis 50:20). For all things work together for good to them that love God (Romans 8:28). See, you can't outsmart God. God is working all the bad and the good for His greater good for His people.
Now, imagine voting for an evil world leader (Who is not a true Christian of the Kingdom of God). You are loving the world. Sliding back into your old way of doing things. You get the bumper stickers out and promote how great this evil leader is on your car. But what about Jesus? What about the cross? You are hugging that evil world leader and loving his agenda (Because of some small promise or morsel of good that he might offer; All the while ignoring the fact that he is a part of the wicked one's system and guidance). Yes, the world leaders and the army and the police can at times be God's ministers of justice. So we are to obey the law of the land when those laws do not conflict with God's laws. But you have to understand that there is a difference of obeying the law of the land versus getting involved with the evil world system itself of your own free will choice.
His second point is Matthew 23:23. He points out that Jesus involved himself in politics because he rebuked the Pharisees and Scribes. First off, it is not clear that these are the political leaders of Israel. It merely says they are Pharisees and Scribes. Pharisees were teachers of the Law (i.e. teachers of their father's traditions) and Scribes transcribed the Scriptures and or wrote out legal documents, etc. Second, even if these were political leaders of Israel that Jesus was arguing with, our Lord did not actively seek them out in their own political building to say this. Nor did Jesus cast a vote in disapproval of them.
Actually do you remember what Jesus said when the Pharisees tried to trick him? He said render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's and render unto God, the things that are God's. Meaning....
(a) Obey the Law of the Land (If it does not conflict with God's laws) and
(b) Obey God's commands (Which is loving God, loving others, preaching the gospel, and helping the poor, etc.).
Nowhere do we see Jesus and or any of the apostles involving themselves in political affairs willingly of their own choice. Even Daniel and Joseph were in political positions by God's design and not by their own choice of seeking out those positions.
His first point is that politics effect the gospel. Wrong. God and His people is what ultimately effects the gospel in being a reality. Who is behind the politics? God is. If you think our world system is not in control of God for His ultimate good, than you have another thing coming. Look at the story of Joseph. What his brothers intended for evil against him, God intended it for good (Genesis 50:20). For all things work together for good to them that love God (Romans 8:28). See, you can't outsmart God. God is working all the bad and the good for His greater good for His people.
Now, imagine voting for an evil world leader (Who is not a true Christian of the Kingdom of God). You are loving the world. Sliding back into your old way of doing things. You get the bumper stickers out and promote how great this evil leader is on your car. But what about Jesus? What about the cross? You are hugging that evil world leader and loving his agenda (Because of some small promise or morsel of good that he might offer; All the while ignoring the fact that he is a part of the wicked one's system and guidance). Yes, the world leaders and the army and the police can at times be God's ministers of justice. So we are to obey the law of the land when those laws do not conflict with God's laws. But you have to understand that there is a difference of obeying the law of the land versus getting involved with the evil world system itself of your own free will choice.
His second point is Matthew 23:23. He points out that Jesus involved himself in politics because he rebuked the Pharisees and Scribes. First off, it is not clear that these are the political leaders of Israel. It merely says they are Pharisees and Scribes. Pharisees were teachers of the Law (i.e. teachers of their father's traditions) and Scribes transcribed the Scriptures and or wrote out legal documents, etc. Second, even if these were political leaders of Israel that Jesus was arguing with, our Lord did not actively seek them out in their own political building to say this. Nor did Jesus cast a vote in disapproval of them.
Actually do you remember what Jesus said when the Pharisees tried to trick him? He said render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's and render unto God, the things that are God's. Meaning....
(a) Obey the Law of the Land (If it does not conflict with God's laws) and
(b) Obey God's commands (Which is loving God, loving others, preaching the gospel, and helping the poor, etc.).
Nowhere do we see Jesus and or any of the apostles involving themselves in political affairs willingly of their own choice. Even Daniel and Joseph were in political positions by God's design and not by their own choice of seeking out those positions.
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F
I agree with your outlook! I used to agree with those who say 'Eh, there's nobody good to vote for. :/ '... or those who say 'I'm not going to vote for evil of any kind. Period!'. Then some very deep evil reared it's head, I was older and wiser and not only voted, but changed from blue to red. I guess I side with 'don't hide your light under, etc.', so I won't hide my voice either. Even though there is never anyone really 'good' to vote for, because as someone so astutely said, if they're that good they don't want that type of job... true, true, but we need to stay IN the world, even if we're not OF this world. Otherwise, we cannot in all fairness expect, (when we withdraw our participation) peace (as we pray for daily).
This is what I can do for kings, for men in authority, and for all men, according to that passage you just quoted.
(a) I can have Supplications for them.
(Supplications are requests that come from a heart crying out to God).
(b) I can have Prayers for them.
(Normal prayer)
(c) I can have intercessions for them
(Is a prayer that is to mediate on behalf of another person. It is not a one off prayer but a fervent prayer that can lead into fasting).
However, I don't see anything in that passage about voting for them, though.
(a) I can have Supplications for them.
(Supplications are requests that come from a heart crying out to God).
(b) I can have Prayers for them.
(Normal prayer)
(c) I can have intercessions for them
(Is a prayer that is to mediate on behalf of another person. It is not a one off prayer but a fervent prayer that can lead into fasting).
However, I don't see anything in that passage about voting for them, though.
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