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I'm going to go with this for now.
Same verses/different view type argument. ( All arguments on CC, actually
)
Sophia,
Our confusion? I believe, is how Paul said "called to be saints" in 1 Corinthians 1?
You believe all Christians are "Saints"?
....and that Paul isn't referencing "them/including Paul" and "us/including you and I", like I see it?
It all goes back to the 144K convo, the remnant, Israel...... and since we dropped that topic, my guess this will be short lived too...or get bitter?
To understand my view, we have to go back to that, or else we will never get to where I was heading.
No worries.
We both will just be confused on each others points.
The whole Bible has to be brought up, to understand how I see Paul's Epistles.
We can just meet up again on some other thread someday?.......it's all good.
Til then, Be well Sis.
God Bless.
Same verses/different view type argument. ( All arguments on CC, actually
)Sophia,
Our confusion? I believe, is how Paul said "called to be saints" in 1 Corinthians 1?
You believe all Christians are "Saints"?
....and that Paul isn't referencing "them/including Paul" and "us/including you and I", like I see it?
It all goes back to the 144K convo, the remnant, Israel...... and since we dropped that topic, my guess this will be short lived too...or get bitter?
To understand my view, we have to go back to that, or else we will never get to where I was heading.
No worries.
We both will just be confused on each others points.
The whole Bible has to be brought up, to understand how I see Paul's Epistles.
We can just meet up again on some other thread someday?.......it's all good.
Til then, Be well Sis.
God Bless.
Ac 2:23
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
KJV
Peter is saying that by having Jesus killed the Pharisees, who were politically motivated, fulfilled God's plan.
This unlike Adams sin was not passed down to successive generations. Most believers of the first century church including all the New Testament writers except Luke were Jewish
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
KJV
Peter is saying that by having Jesus killed the Pharisees, who were politically motivated, fulfilled God's plan.
This unlike Adams sin was not passed down to successive generations. Most believers of the first century church including all the New Testament writers except Luke were Jewish
Ro 11:26
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
KJV
We have no way of knowing how inclusive All Israel is; but taken at face value it opens the possibility that you are mistaken. In any case it proves that God has NOT permanently rejected the Jews.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
KJV
We have no way of knowing how inclusive All Israel is; but taken at face value it opens the possibility that you are mistaken. In any case it proves that God has NOT permanently rejected the Jews.
Unless you reject the Old Testament as being from God, You can not label Judaism as a false religion.
Certainly elevating rabbinic tradition to the authority of Scripture is not good practice; but more than 80% of the Scripture quoted by Jesus comes from Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
Mt 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
KJV
In Ps 22 and Is 53 we see that God knew that most of the Jewish people would reject Christ at his first coming and would accept Him en masse at his second coming (Zc 12:12-13:2).
The greatest obstacle to Jewish people accepting Christ in our time is that most of what identifies itself as the church does not exhibit the love we are supposed to be recognized by. Jn 13:34-35
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
KJV
Certainly elevating rabbinic tradition to the authority of Scripture is not good practice; but more than 80% of the Scripture quoted by Jesus comes from Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
Mt 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
KJV
In Ps 22 and Is 53 we see that God knew that most of the Jewish people would reject Christ at his first coming and would accept Him en masse at his second coming (Zc 12:12-13:2).
The greatest obstacle to Jewish people accepting Christ in our time is that most of what identifies itself as the church does not exhibit the love we are supposed to be recognized by. Jn 13:34-35
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
KJV
Paul is actually speaking to the whole church, one group who were in Corinth, and "all who are in every other place." (1:1)
And in speaking to the whole church, he is speaking to a lot more than just two groups.
Actually Paul is speaking to the one group addressed in 1:1, the whole church--those in Corinth and "all who are in every other place," and is answering (7:1) five different questions presented to him regarding marriage and divorce:
1) Is sex unspiritual? (7:2-7)--No.
2) Should those saved after widowing remarry? (7:8-9)--Yes.
3) Should those saved after marriage divorce?
---a) both saved (7:10-11)--No.
---b) one saved (7:12-16)--Only if the unbeliever leaves.
4) Should salvation change your marital status? (7:17-24)--No.
5) Should those never married marry? (7:25-28)--It's best not to in these times.
Actually Paul is talking to the whole church, those in Corinth and "all who are in every other place." (1:1)
Actually, Paul is talking to the whole church, those in Corinth and "all who are in every other place." (1:1)
Well, not really. . .because there is no "pattern" in 1Co 7.
Paul is simply answering questions presented to him by letter (7:1).
This is where your "hermeneutic" gets dicey.
First of all, Paul is not talking to separate groups in the letter to Corinthians.
Nor would talking to separate groups in Corinthians be grounds for asserting it anywhere else.
Each letter must stand on its own context.
And in speaking to the whole church, he is speaking to a lot more than just two groups.
Actually Paul is speaking to the one group addressed in 1:1, the whole church--those in Corinth and "all who are in every other place," and is answering (7:1) five different questions presented to him regarding marriage and divorce:
1) Is sex unspiritual? (7:2-7)--No.
2) Should those saved after widowing remarry? (7:8-9)--Yes.
3) Should those saved after marriage divorce?
---a) both saved (7:10-11)--No.
---b) one saved (7:12-16)--Only if the unbeliever leaves.
4) Should salvation change your marital status? (7:17-24)--No.
5) Should those never married marry? (7:25-28)--It's best not to in these times.
Actually Paul is talking to the whole church, those in Corinth and "all who are in every other place." (1:1)
Actually, Paul is talking to the whole church, those in Corinth and "all who are in every other place." (1:1)
Well, not really. . .because there is no "pattern" in 1Co 7.
Paul is simply answering questions presented to him by letter (7:1).
This is where your "hermeneutic" gets dicey.
First of all, Paul is not talking to separate groups in the letter to Corinthians.
Nor would talking to separate groups in Corinthians be grounds for asserting it anywhere else.
Each letter must stand on its own context.
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Isa 66:8
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
KJV
The nation is Modern Israel born 11/11/1948. and those who made it happen are hardly atheists!
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
KJV
The nation is Modern Israel born 11/11/1948. and those who made it happen are hardly atheists!
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I disagree....sorry.
I don't know where to go from here?
I stand by what I say.
I feel no need to defend what I've presented, because that would take days, hours, page and pages.
In no way do I take away from scripture, I stated over and over, everything in the Bible, and NT is to be learned by Christians.
This doesn't just boil down to Corinthians, it would take dozens of other scripture and cross-ref of other Epistles.
Every time this happens, it feels like I spend hours on it, ......just so most could breeze over it.
Not worth it to me, sorry.
Like I said to Sophia, if you and I aren't on the same page when it comes to "time of the Gentiles" being fulfilled....
....this would be a long drawn out, never ending debate.
I am not here to change anyone's mind......overall, I share opinions.
Really,.... I crave peace.
Although, I am guilty....because once in awhile, I will go against a select few in the BDF.
God Bless Elin.
I disagree....sorry.
I don't know where to go from here?
I stand by what I say.
I feel no need to defend what I've presented, because that would take days, hours, page and pages.
In no way do I take away from scripture, I stated over and over, everything in the Bible, and NT is to be learned by Christians.
This doesn't just boil down to Corinthians, it would take dozens of other scripture and cross-ref of other Epistles.
Every time this happens, it feels like I spend hours on it, ......just so most could breeze over it.
Not worth it to me, sorry.
Like I said to Sophia, if you and I aren't on the same page when it comes to "time of the Gentiles" being fulfilled....
....this would be a long drawn out, never ending debate.
I am not here to change anyone's mind......overall, I share opinions.
Really,.... I crave peace.
Although, I am guilty....because once in awhile, I will go against a select few in the BDF.
God Bless Elin.
God uses his enemies as instruments of judgment, as the Christ-rejecting Jews were the instruments of God's judgment on our sin at the cross, but God still holds them guilty of their crime even though he used it to accomplish his purposes.
It is their crime for which God holds them guilty that we are talking about here.
It is their crime for which God holds them guilty that we are talking about here.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I disagree....sorry.
I don't know where to go from here?
I stand by what I say.
I feel no need to defend what I've presented,
I disagree....sorry.
I don't know where to go from here?
I stand by what I say.
I feel no need to defend what I've presented,
And I am also happy to let these Scriptures speak for themselves.
It's your hermeneutic that is the problem
God bless you also.
Elin
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K
I must say the term "Christ hating Jews" bothers me. Do you say "Christ hating Americans" for those who dont believe in Christ? "Christ hating Brits?" and so on.Plenty of people dont accept Christ. Christ died for OUR SIN. That is what sent him to the cross,that is why he came,to die. The Romans nailed him there,the high priests called him a blasphemer and turned him over to Pilate but it was our sin that kept him there.He became the blood sacrifice.
K
To you the same
I am very grateful for you here. Even when I jumped all over you for the "flip answer", you came back with grace.
I am very grateful for you here. Even when I jumped all over you for the "flip answer", you came back with grace.
I am trying hard to learn it! I tend to be reactive and Im trying so hard not to be that way. Perhaps you were sent to test me. lol lol Its easy to get heated on here.Especially when we dont see the person we're talking to face to face.I've had to apologize on here when I got hoof in mouth disease. I'm getting older and hopefully a little wiser.Whats your favorite hymn,maybe we can agree on that.One of my favorites is "When I Survey The Wondrous Cross". It kept going through my mind as I watched the "Passion of the Christ" movie. Beautiful song.
R
not to be argumentative but 'brother nathanael' is absolutely -not- a trustworthy source...he is a known fraud and a mental case...those youtube videos are -literally- what happens when he goes off his meds and puts on a fake monk costume and pretends to be involved in a church body that he actually has no fellowship with...
That is NOT POSSIBLE!
After God (Is 53) predicts rejection of Christ by most of the Jewish people; We have
Jer 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
KJV
and after denouncing Israel for unfaithfulness and threatening punishment in Hos 2:1-13; God says:
Hos 2:14-23
14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the Lord, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the Lord, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
KJV
After God (Is 53) predicts rejection of Christ by most of the Jewish people; We have
Jer 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
KJV
and after denouncing Israel for unfaithfulness and threatening punishment in Hos 2:1-13; God says:
Hos 2:14-23
14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the Lord, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the Lord, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
KJV