The Church of Laodicea?

[TheDivineWatermark]

Regarding the OP/thread topic, a few things to consider (IMO):

1) in the churchES, there exists both believers [saints] and those who are not [genuine saints]; whereas "the Church which is His body" consists ONLY of believers/saints [of 'this present age'... from the first century, up to our Rapture]

2) both "hot" and "cold" seem to be positives, from God's perspective (for it says, "I would thou wert hot or cold")

3) it is my understanding that "hot" and "cold" were waters originating from a particular source, whereas "lukewarm" was that which was not connected with such a source (sort of like a stagnant mudpuddle versus a river/stream [or aqueduct] or hot-springs kind of thing); thus, God "spews out of His mouth" the "lukewarm" who are not connected with the source: that is, He is looking to taste "Christ" in them, and lacking that, spews them out. So I tend to believe the "lukewarm" are those [in the churchES; i.e. in Christendom] who come in His name, but who are not vitally connected with/to The Source (Jesus Christ) [even Matt7 says some will say, "haven't WE DONE... many wonderful works" IN THY NAME, and He says unto them "I never knew you"]… IOW, I do not see the Rev3 passage as a "lose your salvation" context


[note: I tend to believe the "lukewarm," here, then are spewed into the tribulation period and there counseled to "buy of Me gold tried in the fire" 3:18, where also it says, "...that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear," which is very close to what is also stated in Revelation 16:15-16 (just before the 7th vial is poured), "... Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them [see verse 14?] together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon" (these [those who heed His Word] apparently having obtained, in/during the trib, that which was previously lacking, just as Revelation 3:18 had instructed...)]

That's kind of how I see it.

I wish to clarify some of my earlier post ^ .

I have a friend who believes the Revelation 2-3 "churches" are [solely] within the [future] tribulation period, but I tend not to agree with that based on the following (which subject I often post about, here)... IOW, I hold to the distinction found in Revelation 1:19 showing "the things which thou hast seen, the things which ARE, and the things which SHALL BE HEREAFTER" ("hereafter" referring to that which follows after our Rapture, the rapture of "the Church which is His body" [to whom the "Rapture" solely pertains], though "churchES" will still exist in the trib years, as I see it [but "the Church which is His body" will not be present on the earth in the trib years])--


"the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" (Matt24:4-8; Mk13:5-8 [and DESCRIBED in Lk21:8-11, but not so named, there]) :

--is the equivalent to "the SEALS" of Rev 6 (and Rev1:1 states, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [Jesus], TO SHEW UNTO His servants [note 7:3 (144,000 "servants of our God," for example)] things which must come to pass [note 4:1 (the "future" aspect of the Book !)] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [not things which will unfold over the past 2000 years or so, but "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [same as in Lk18:8[chpt17-end] re: "avenge," etc])

--is also equivalent to Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' " the equivalent of the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" which is the "FIRST SEAL" (the "whose coming/arrival/advent//presence/parousia" [2Th2:9a] of the "man of sin" IN HIS TIME [Dan9:27a(26)-"the prince THAT SHALL COME"..."FOR ONE WEEK [7yrs]"]), that is, at the START of the 7-yr trib


So, I believe Revelation 4-5 is a scene which follows our Rapture, is when Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Lam2:3-4 (similar to 2Th2:7b-8a), etc], and is at the START of the future 7-yr tribulation period (the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period leading up to His Second Coming to the earth).

I believe the "lukewarm" are not saved [that is, although they come in His name, they are not vitally connected to the Source, Jesus]... that is, are not saved before the Rapture (but may possibly heed His "counsel" stated in 3:18 and come to faith following the Rapture, meaning, within the trib years... but keeping in mind that 2Th2:10-12 is also a reality during that same future time period).

 

[Lanolin]

Hmm just to add about being lukewarm

It could be about being doubleminded as well as indifferent to God. If one is hot, one is hot, if one is cold, one is cold, but if one is lukewarm, one is both.

Is this us...well in the church I have come across people of the mindset...we dont want to do any ministries reaching out, its enough for our own families to go to church. Doesnt matter about the rest of the lost. Have come across pastors who dont really care about their flock as long as they continue to get a paycheck from the church and an easy retirement. I have come across people who are elders that will spend all their retirement on themselves and not encourage younger people at all and say do it yourself. Even when the youth find it hard to get jobs and dont have access to all the benefits and priveliges their elders had like free education and affordable housing and land. I have come across people who wont give you as straight answer, its never yes or no, its 'maybe' or 'one day' or 'will think about it'

I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing...sounds like the comfortable middle class to me!

 

[Matthew55]

in an ugly way....exegeisis....adding in your own bias

No...... not right

You think I am bias because I think that vomiting one out of your mouth is an ugly kind of description?

Do you think that being unbiased would be associating vomiting with a kind of nice event?

I really don't see how calling vomiting an ugly event makes me biased at all, maybe you can explain how I was biased?

 

[Matthew55]

Jesus addressed them as a church....what does it take for men to be called a church....ONE that has a MESSENGER and ONE that JESUS threatens which means it is a church in his eyes...

a. MEN must be saved
b. Men must have scriptural baptism
c. Men must be covenanted together
d. Men must have had the truth

The above 4 are required for there to be a N.T. Church.......

No, I do not believe salvation was the issue and or being addressed....what was being addressed was their authority and witness as a N.T. Church

You may not think salvation is the issue, but if you are vomited out of the mouth of Jesus, I believe your salvation is at an end, you will not be with Jesus for eternity.

 

[JaumeJ]

They were also called synagogues, assemblies, members of the Body of Christ, etc...………...all are valid, they are translations. Also they were not speaking English, they spoke either Hebrew or Greek in almost all cases. Some may say they spoke Aramaic, other would not.

 

[garee]

What do you guys think? Is that us?

I see that as more of a loving warning. Getting lukewarm requires no work .Hearing what God say to us is the work by which we can believe and not harden our hearts. The reward remains the same as promised, eternal life.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John6:28-29

 

[Matthew55]

I see that as more of a loving warning. Getting lukewarm requires no work .Hearing what God say to us is the work by which we can believe and not harden our hearts. The reward remains the same as promised, eternal life.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John6:28-29

This gives the "work of God", which is to bring people to a belief in Christ. It is not saying anything about what kinds of good works that man is required to be involved in.

You make it sound like that believing in Christ is the only work that man is required to be involved in, but this scripture is about God and the "work that God is involved in", not man. There are many other scriptures that tell us what good works man is required to be invoved in. See the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2)

 

[dcontroversal]

You may not think salvation is the issue, but if you are vomited out of the mouth of Jesus, I believe your salvation is at an end, you will not be with Jesus for eternity.

Wrong....it is a church letter and the threat is to remove the candlestick (authority) from the church.....Salvation is eternal....it is not temporal, nor can it be lost..........!!

 

[garee]

This gives the "work of God", which is to bring people to a belief in Christ. It is not saying anything about what kinds of good works that man is required to be involved in.


You make it sound like that believing in Christ is the only work that man is required to be involved in, but this scripture is about God and the "work that God is involved in", not man. There are many other scriptures that tell us what good works man is required to be invoved in. See the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2)

I did not say only work or work alone.

Interestingly when Jacob (the deceiver) was born again God changed his name to Israel which means he who wrestles with God not seen and man seen and overcomes. Christian is the new name he named his born again people . A work that God is involved with in man. not after any man.

Believing God, or called mixing faith in that which does come from hearing God is the call of the gospel . By it God softens our hard hearts .(Hebrew 4.)

Because he makes our hearts soft by the hearing of His work of faith we understand it is Him working in us, with us, as Emmanuel to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness.

Its strange right after (Philippians 2: 12) he inform us not murmur as if he would forget the good works we have offered towards His name .The better thing that accompanies a salvation that he promises that if he has begun good works with us in us he will finish making our heart soft till the end. Philippians 1:6

Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for "his name" in serving the saints, as you still do. Hebrew 6:9-10