Right.
That's why I supplied you with the verse (for starters) where Paul uses the exact word (in the singular) that Jesus had used (in the plural); 1Thess5:[2-]3.
In view of this info, do you agree or not agree that both Paul and Jesus used the word
"G5604":
--
Jesus, in Matthew 24:
8 / Mark 13:
8 using
"G5604 [in the PLURAL]" when referencing "[the beginning of] birth PANG
S [G5604, pl]" He had
just listed (in Matt24:
4-8 / Mk13:
5-8... and where Matt24:
4 / Mk 13:
5 is telling of THE FIRST / INITIAL ONE
of those);
--
Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 5:[2-]
3 using
"G5604 [in the SINGULAR]" when referencing when and how "the Day of the Lord" will
ARRIVE /
COMMENCE, which he says will be "
exactly like [
hosper] the
INITIAL "birth PANG [
SINGULAR,
G5604]" that COMES UPON a woman with child/in labor (i.e. SUDDENLY this
initial pang comes upon her!
And then, MANY MORE "birth pang
S"
follow on from that
INITIAL one; It is not "ONE and DONE" when it comes to "birth pang
s," either in nature or in what Jesus had spoken concerning);
When one properly
defines and
places (in its correct chronological starting point) the phrase
"the Day of the Lord," per the above information supplied to us via the texts themselves (comparing scripture with scripture), one can begin to grasp Paul's actual points (elsewhere, on THIS Subject);
By the way, this word
"G5604" is only used
4x in the NT, so it's not
too complicated of an endeavor to compare what Paul said to that which Jesus had said (
ON THIS Subject).
Please tell me whether you can see from the texts themselves, that Jesus used this word in the PLURAL, and Paul used this very word (1Th5:3) in the SINGULAR...
[and Paul did so, FOR A REASON... as he spells out...
]
--Matt24:
8 / Mk13:
8 -
G5604 [PLURAL "N-G
PF"] -
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/24/8/t_concif_953008 [and]
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mar/13/8/t_concif_970008
--1Th5:
3 -
G5604 [SINGULAR "N-N
SF"] -
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1th/5/3/t_concif_1116003
If you do NOT see how these are the SAME Grk word (but one in the plural, the other in the singular), then I guess we can have no further discussion (about what "Paul said" [per your quote at top]), because we just won't be getting on the same page
as to this first step in ascertaining what it is that he actually "said"
I'm fine with that.
I just read a huge circle again and don’t understand what your saying . what are you asking about the Bible what subject the pre tribulation rapture ?
The “ rapture is going to happen at the end of the world when Jesus returns from heaven
“For
the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and
the dead in Christ shall rise first:
then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: ( this moment is what people refer to as the rapture when Christ returns , the dead are raised and the still living church is all gathered together with the lord ) and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
Paul isnt creating this he’s talking about what Jesus taught in the gospel giving firther revelation of it jesus taught then that he would return from heaven
after all the tribulation ended and he would then deliver them before his wrath burns up creation
donyou see how you quoted chaoter 5 where Paul’s talking about the day of the lord coming like a thief ? Jesus taught that in his parables and you can understand it better if you read what else is said about it like this
Like this
“that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:2-4, 8-13 KJV
The timing is always the same the tribulation from the time of Christ until the end of the world , Jesus returns from heaven and the dead are raised his angels then gather his elect after the tribulation has concluded and the rest are throne into the finance where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth
The doctrine never varies from Jesus to Paul to Peter . You asking about a word plural or singular doesn’t have any relevance there is an abundance of doctrine that’s all in perfect harmony regarding the day Jesus will gather his church it’s not even really a debate ever since he said when he would do it after the tribulation he told them they would endure
Its hard to then find the doctrine for any pre tribulation rapture it would require me to think Jesus and his apostles all had it wrong it’s always at the resurrection of the dead when the church is raptured from earth just before this happens
“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 KJV
Only the believers will be saved before that happens but after all the worldly tribulation ends at the end of this world when the lord returns
“So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,”
Matthew 13:49 KJV
the harvest is at the end nothing is harvested before that’s the whole point of his parable there good and bad fro together then the harvesters come at the end harvest the good dispose of the bad
The church that’s still alive and well that day will experience this
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but
we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for
the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and
we shall be changed.”
1 Corinthians 15:51-52