THE CRY FOR THE POWER

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popeye

Guest
Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah returned.

Matthew 17:

10. And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11. And Jesus answered and said unto them,
Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

12. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.


13. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Yes.

John was representative of the old covenant. The levitical priesthood. Jesus was baptized,as you know,by John to fulfill purpose

IOW,if John was Elijah,as a type,then Jesus would be the type of Elisha.

Not saying it is written in stone,just an interesting dimension.

Hard to get this thread going with the business of the "fire starters" (putting out fires )
 
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This is an older study but here are a couple of things minus the lepers

Malachi also is the last book of the prophets which prophesied of Elijah to come and the very next book after Malachi is Mathew (of the NT) where Jesus is noted saying, " For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John" in Mat 11:13 where the record of John is. Jesus continues in verse 14 and says, if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. And his disciples (as it is written) understood Jesus to be speaking of John the Baptist.

Luke 1:17 And he (John) shall go before him (The Lord) in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. (See Mal 4:5-6 also)

What's interesting is, as it reads in Mal 4:6 where it says, And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. And John (the Elijah for to come) was commissioned to the same. As Elisha (who followed after Elijah) was the one shown cursing the children of the city who were mocking him.

What is depicted also is that the mantle of Elijah come upon Elisha as there is a resemblance here as well

2Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

Then we see this also

In Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, (The Elijah for to come) to be baptized of him.

This is where John actually forbade him

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Jesus said, "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John" in Mat 11:1

Here is a witness of the mantle, or the Spirit (as they were given to reccognize beforehand)

2Kings 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

Just as after John (the Elijah for to come) bear witness of Jesus Christ and his disciples were directed to follow Jesus

John 1:38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou? He saith unto them, Come and see.

You can keep going, but John was filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb (where Jesus was actually conceived of the Holy Ghost) and so I would think going forth in the spirit and power of Elijah would be as going forth in the spirit and power of the Holy Ghost (but according to how it is written of him) because John did no miracle.

After John is shut up in prison (after Jesus was anointing by the Spirit to preach) Jesus is doing just that and is off fulfilling Isaiah 61:1-2. Jesus is "the me" the Spirit of the LORD is upon (to preach) of verse 1 as shown in Luke 4:19-21. Here fulfilling the first part of that verse there. Right after that he brings in the days of Elijah ( the number of years) the heavens were shut up (even as John is shut up in prison) after the heavens open to Christ (who come after. Jesus brings up Elisha likewise (so them two) at the very start of his ministry. With "the eyes all" fixed upon him they soon begin to be filled with wrath, for as would have done to John (even the Elijah for to come) so likewise would the Son of man suffer of them (as he knew). Although, the second half of the verse of Isaiah 61:2 is spoken of by Jesus in Luke 21:22. The first part of it was to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord and is shown as fulfilled this day in your ears in Luke 4:21 but the other (which is there also) pertains to "the proclaiming" the days of vengeance of our God. This is spoken by Jesus in Luke 21:22 saying, "For these be the days of vengeance that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled. (speaking into the future) of the things he has just foretold, so Jesus proclaimed both, Jesus being "the me" the Spirit of the Lord was upon written of in Isaiah 61:1 (even as John bear a witness to Him) as he bare record of that same Spirit descending upon Jesus, and the proclaiming (what is shown twofold) the days of vengeance as well.

Here it says,

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn themup, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Jesus is also the root (Rev 22:16) and the one called the branch (Zech 6:12) even as Messiah is cut off and Who is also the builder of the house (Heb 3:3)

Luke 3:7 Then said he (John) to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Luke 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Luke 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Follow the first verse down to

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Jesus said, "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John" Mat 11:1

The last verse
of Mal (before the book of Mathew)

Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Luke 1:17 And he (John) shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

John 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it,repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. (followed by a parable) to Mat 21:41 against them. Then see Mal 4:3 which also reflects what's in it Romans 2:5 Treasuring up unto thyself wrath.

The description of both

2Kings 1:7... What manner of man was he which came up to meet you, and told you these words?

2Kings 1:8 And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.

Of John it says,

Mark 1:6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins

Luke 7:25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts.

Luke 7:26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.

Luke 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Luke 1:76-77 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

And Jesus bares John a witness also saying,

Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Sent before the Lord is being "that one"

John 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

Called the prophet of the highest (sent of God) before the Messiah

Luke 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

He would be great in the sight of the Lord,

Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

As Christ said, among them born of women there is none greater than John

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

John bares him a record

John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

John speaks of being sent (John 1:6) and that by God

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

The records of one another in these things between them are pretty tight.


 
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Ok,maybe I am jumping the gun,but I can tell you,what is going on here is a loathing of Gods power.

They have been programmed to flee the power and miracle verses. That is why there is a negative reaction.

Their reaction is knee jerk,and AUTOMATIC.

Very negative and suspicious view of Gods power.

The apostles LIVED AND OPERATED in the miraculous.

That is good news.
I agree that is very good news! :)
I think...He has a lot to teach us about humility and patience with each other before we are fit for handling gifts like healing.
We might be like the disciples - Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven on them?? :D
 
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You know, popeye, something you said earlier got me thinking today. You said something like...Elisha did twice what Elijah did. Might have been somewhere on page one of the thread. And when I thought of it, I pictured Elijah as a type of Jesus and Elisha as us and this verse came to me. Greater works than I have done you will do because I go to the Father.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Well,sort of.

Gifts WITHOUT love are neutralized.

Water is 2 elements. Hydrogen dominates.

But try drinking a glass of it. The oxygen element,though a minority,makes the compound.

We cannot exclude the power by exaggerating one ingredient.
Actually it's not one or the other that dominates and the structure of water as a polar molecule gives it it's properties. Hydrogen atoms are gaseous at room temperature and so are oxygen molecules. The unique way they are bonded is what is important.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Oh no you don't. Your not putting that mess on me.

I have a valid doctrine. NOBODY(as far as detractors) has addresses the Validity of miracles.

Your attempt to label is pretty lame,considering how I handled crossnotes ugly mess he spewed on me.

Show me with a bible how miracles have ceased,and why they erroneously dominated the lives of the apostles.

My point/s are valid,and I can defend them
easily. Cool,calm collected,right in the face of ugliness as crossnote chose to exhibit.

Interesting that you are oblivious to folks non biblical stand.

You can not possibly accuse me VALIDLY.

Your subtle name calling ,though,I am sure, is your stellar example of love.
I,think theoldandnew was giving you a blessing and encouragement to be wrapped in the mantle of love because if God grants you your prayer for the gift of healing , you will endure much trials and heartache.., they just wanted you to remember God's love to keep you warm and safe.
 
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Haha ariel!
I was too hung up on swearing I could remember thatthe oxygen was more plentiful than the hydrogen by a ratio of...80/20'ish?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
In water the ratio is 2 hydrogen to 1 oxygen but the oxygen atom is much bigger than hydrogen..a polar covalently bonded molecule that has some very unique properties.

I love all the Bible verses about water.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
In water the ratio is 2 hydrogen to 1 oxygen but the oxygen atom is much bigger than hydrogen..a polar covalently bonded molecule that has some very unique properties.

I love all the Bible verses about water.
i do too...i also think very likely scientists are not done discovering all of water's unique properties...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Her next post got across her point (at least what I took her point to be) that miracles do not always end with someone being saved. So she prays more for their spiritual birth than she does for a healing miracle. Because THAT is ALWAYS salvation! :)

Maybe she's a midwife...a prissy, spiritual midwife...;)
ooops, spiritual rebirth is a miracle!!!
 
Nov 12, 2015
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In water the ratio is 2 hydrogen to 1 oxygen but the oxygen atom is much bigger than hydrogen..a polar covalently bonded molecule that has some very unique properties.

I love all the Bible verses about water.
ah okay...I remember that water is the only thing that can take on 3 forms...I found that pretty amazing considering God, the Son and the Holy Spirit...
 
Feb 28, 2016
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I,think theoldandnew was giving you a blessing and encouragement to be wrapped in the mantle of love because if God grants you your prayer for the gift of healing , you will endure much trials and heartache.., they just wanted you to remember God's love to keep you warm and safe.
===================================================

Ariel,

we appreciate your discernment of our post, TY...:):)
 
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popeye

Guest
[video=youtube;8f1UYVDX2Es]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f1UYVDX2Es[/video]