The curse of the law

Bowhunter2394 · May 4, 2015

Some are trying to hard to 'fulfill' the Torah and tell others they must adhere to it, they fall SHORT in Sin and DONT KNOW THE LIVING TORAH. Jesus the Christ, God manifest in the Flesh... un belief in the Completed Perfect Appeasement of Christ. as Sufficient. My Grace is Sufficient, Its what the Living Torah told Paul.....

slave · May 4, 2015

Grandpa said:

I applaud this yet I want to be clear on one point...In Galations 2:19 what you concluded is fair, yet we can't stop the story there...Jesus the only one not found dead in sin...who became our representative by the authority of being one of us in the flesh...then died on our behalf Having the only thing worthy of payment to sin. A true man and a true sinless man ..a sacrifice of a pure heart...Reversing the Adam dilemma for us....and not to leave the Law in the dust; useless, but to fulfill it instead..Honoring it...And now not as Jesus but as Christ Jesus, or Lord Jesus we have a connection to the place Jesus was placed by the Father. Heaven. A family member not also seated with God thru Christ. Being seen by God as Christ , never to lose our own individuality. The only measure that passes Judgements Fire will be His merits, that is why He sees Him exclusively then. So with all that said: Christ is the most important connection to a future not found in death and Hell...Period..and as a trailer to that important issue God kept tact the Holiness of Himself, for to not do that He would have denied His own righteousness, and this can't happen....so let's "Tetelestai" this stuff up, and get out of here....For "it is Finished" the curse of the law is of no more interest, it was just the chapter turner to the whole story, the curse had to be....so we could see......and now we can be......in Heaven, because of Thee on a cross. [Oh, I missed the tree rhyme] ...Hey I try...smile. God bless everyone in this Forum I love you all! Seriously!

Elin · May 4, 2015

slave said:

I applaud this yet I want to be clear on one point...In Galations 2:19 what you concluded is fair, yet
we can't stop the story there...Jesus the only one not found dead in sin...who became our representative by the authority of being one of us in the flesh...then died on our behalf Having the only thing worthy of payment to sin.
A true man and a true sinless man ..a sacrifice of a pure heart...
Reversing the Adam dilemma for us....
and not to leave the Law in the dust; useless, but to fulfill it instead..Honoring it...
And now not as Jesus but as Christ Jesus, or Lord Jesus
we have a connection to the place Jesus was placed by the Father. Heaven.
A family member now also seated with God thru Christ. Being seen by God as Christ ,
never to lose our own individuality.
The only measure that passes Judgements Fire will be His merits, that is why He sees Him exclusively then. So with all that said:
Christ is the most important connection to a future not found in death and Hell...Period.
.and as a trailer to that important issue God kept tact the Holiness of Himself, for to not do that He would have denied His own righteousness, and this can't happen....

so let's "Tetelestai" this stuff up, and get out of here....For "it is Finished"
the curse of the law is of no more interest, it was just the chapter turner to the whole story,
the curse had to be....so we could see......and now we can be......
in Heaven, because of Thee
on a cross.

[Oh, I missed the tree rhyme] ...Hey I try...smile. God bless everyone in this Forum I love you all! Seriously!

Wonderful !!!. . .if that don't light your fire, your wood's wet!

slave · May 4, 2015

Bowhunter2394 said:

I also agree with you...but I am unsure of something..are you saying, that Grace is the end game? My end game, in all you did say, is that we then turn and burn as Christ did, doing the Torah not by my means but by His in me, for we now know I can't in me....

If this was your conclusion I applaud you. If we are just shy of the finish line on that point...I say go all the way with it, all the hard work was done in the things you did say. God bless you, Bow.

For we need to obey God and faith without works is dead. I, sometimes, think we get what God is giving us confused with what we do with the perfect gift, the will of ourself.. We will screw up we are dumb sheep. But, we don't have to--this is the free gift, and God will not throw you off His team with one sin, you only back slide from God from the continued no's to God when He asks you to correct it, thru confession and commitment to change, and move to His finished work.

But know this... if caught then with sin in you as we die, we are not able to make it in. So heed God's warnings of sins power. Sin is nothing to play with or deny the need to eradicate based on grace. God is patient and kind He says His yolk is easy [ which by the way, Yolk is not an egg thing, smile It is in reference to what oxen are equipped with while plowing the fields...He means restrictions] and His burden light,[Not to say if may not have a price]. But the prize is seen elsewhere in heaven.

so altho it will not be an easy life, and we christians need to be honest about that with non-believers for the sake of integrity, it is not us that battles the fight it is He who does. That's right ...your battles, your individual, even strange battles unique to your own self sista and bruddas. He is all over all of it. Or as scripture says , He is all, and in all. Pretty all-inclusive huh? And remember don't feel bad to put your problems in His lap, it's what He loves, You needing Him for His glory sake. Don't you love giving the kids Christmas presents more than receiving them? He never sleeps so you don't have to sit on the side of the road in a accident waiting 'till morning to pray..smile. Think about that....wow!

You mean even in the closet when I have the light off? That all-inclusive?.. Oh Yeah that too... Yes all and in all. No thing, no power here on earth or in the Heavens, no thoughts, nothing made even the bad stuff He has authority over it all... He knows everything hidden detail, every little thing. Wow, right??!!

So just wanted to make sure I was on board with you on that....So, to belittle others is to be little in sins rule, , but to make yourself too little in Christ, is to not see Christ in you big enough to get the job done in you.. and sin crawls in....this was my point, I hope it is yours too.

just-me · May 4, 2015

Bowhunter2394 said:

The controversy began over the relationship of Christ and the church in relation to husband and wife. What are the exportations all about?

Bowhunter2394 · May 4, 2015

just-me said:

The Controversy began with the Simplicity of the Gospel of Christ, seduction by the serpent to beguile those who had Started in Grace and were finishing in the flesh, going back under the Law for Justification... that type of Beguilement is ALIVE AND WELL on this board.. bewitched, is not a movie program.. but a process by which the serpent beguiles those oh so craftily in 'returning to works' under the Law to Justify oneself in the Eyes of God.. satan loves to play off your pride.. let you know its all about you.. pat yourself on the back.. its those who Start in Grace, yet try to finish in the flesh, the Law, they tread the blood of Christ all over again.. today I wonder if some of them were never His to begin with.. I would conclude that because of the nature of the other sower and the times we live in.. they were NEVER His to begin with... Jesus bore the Curse of the Law when they nailed His Flesh, (in the likeness of sinful flesh') to the tree...
'cursed is everyone who hangeth on a tree'....... that thru Faith in His Perfect appeasement, Justification and Imputed Righteousness, is brought to pass by the Father... and this not thru the Works of the Law... His Spotless Bride, will be there with Him NOT because of their 'righteous works', but Because of Faith in Him,

Elin · May 4, 2015

slave said:

Would you explain what you mean by that, what it looks like.

Agreed. . .we must deal radically with our sin (Mt 5:29-30).

That would be yoke. . .but who's keeping score on that. . .

oldthennew · May 4, 2015

score, what a travesty this has become -

scoring has become our weight and balance, our identity!
our fight slogan.

please Father, release us from all bondage and worldly addictions...

Elin · May 4, 2015

slave said:

I think my focus is a little different. . .

I don't see myself as giving God the perfect gift, the will of myself (if I am understanding you correctly),
I see me more as the son who loves the Father and obeys because he loves the Father and wants to be as close to him as he can be.

Are we talking about the same thing?

And I'm unsure of what you are saying here, and how this works.

slave · May 4, 2015

Elin said:

Ok, on the yolk thing You are absolutely right, I had the joke of my eggs in there as I was trying to explain the true point of the scripture and I apologize for my linguistic technical difficulties, Thank God He says even our utterances He will back up if in truth. And It was you who was keeping score, just to be truthful, but I laugh when I say that for I have a single-minded Spirit that is not pushing me on your correction but simply correcting me. And I delight in that, as should we all that are found in Him, as the scriptures bear testimony. smile. The Yoke was on me this time...Oh, the first thing you said I was unclear on...explain what it means...what it looks like? Was that directed at me?

Elin · May 4, 2015

oldthennew said:

I'm not following you. . .would you please explain what you mean?

Elin · May 4, 2015

slave said:

It was just an idiom, meant to say it doesn't matter whether you spell it correctly or not.

Yes, everything was in response to you. . .

slave · May 4, 2015

Elin said:

I was trying to say as sheep we sometimes take a step back by our own willful choice, not because of a inability to succeed. So realistically we sometimes stumble, and sin, but this is not inevitable, ...because the gift of God is not flawed at all. so if we remain in Him we are not flawed because it is not based on my history or performance but on Christ's. I went on to say, sin however will be judged in Christians after death. Our ability to leave the sanctuary of Christ's victory found in us...is there. This is the Satan Godly dual of influences...Yet we need to stay in the Spirit on Christ's side of the "our will/ His Spirit", merged journey. Our ability to lean to Satan is always available, and Satan has our will in a history of it's own to work with to tempt and conjure from the Adam premise we started from.....so we must stay diligent in His Spirit, diligent in our New Man. Sin is possible, and needs attention or we will be judged yet by God and found in sin. God's coverage of us is only in view of our staying in Him. We are free, yes free indeed , but we are free only in Him, for if God only sees Him, what will happen on judgement day if we have scurried off from Him? God will see us again, and judge the sins. Christians need to be wary of the plight of our sin, and Confess any that come quickly. And go and sin no more as Jesus said.

slave · May 4, 2015

The will of myself is imperfect and ruled by the Law of Satan's dominance over me. But the law is there that says God's Spirit rules over Him that rules over me...so If I am in Him, God, I am not ruled by the Dark one, but ruled by God. yet ruled. A slave to sin turned to a slave to righteousness. Anything that is ruled by me...is a lie...for nothing is ruled by me. Except my ability to chose...and that neither Spirit controls ultimately..influences greatly yes..rules no..So If we say we will live on humanism and not Satan or God rule we are lying to ourself. Satan would rule that position. Only our will choosing God will be ruled by God so we need to chose to be there and not leave. If sin weren't still judged by Christians what would be the point of all the scripture pertaining to it? Where am I free from sins rule? Only one place always.....In Christ. Ok, I think I have said the same thing in different ways for an hour I hope this runs in line with your thinking Let me know if it doesn't.

slave · May 4, 2015

Elin said:

I know Elin, I was aware of you not meaning anything bad...You were right in my mistake I wanted to correct myself. I joked about it, is all and I know you meant no harm. Nor did I. I laugh about myself all the time. Smile...

just-me · May 4, 2015

"But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed." John 7:49

Galatians 3:10-13
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The question is: did the law hang on a tree, or did Jesus hang on a tree?

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Romans 7:12

Was the law a curse, or was Jesus crucified to destroy sin that would bring a curse?

Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27:26

Grandpa · May 5, 2015

just-me said:

Matthew 5:17 [SUP] [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Law and the prophets are fulfilled, by the Lord Jesus Christ. Past tense, Present tense, future tense. Perfect.

That is why Galatians 3:10 says those who work at the law are under the curse. They are beholding their own sin instead of beholding their salvation.

The law doesn't show us our blessing, only the Lord Jesus shows us our blessing. If the law could show us our blessing then the Lord didn't need to save us.

No man is justified by the Law in the sight of God. Why? Because no man can be perfect like our Father in Heaven is Perfect.

The Law was a curse to us because we could not perform it. Only The Lord Jesus Christ could perform it.

Is sin the curse? Ok. Well what is the power of sin? The law...

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

just-me · May 5, 2015

Grandpa said:

I agree completely

Grandpa said:

All Old Testament prophecy has not yet been fulfilled such as Christ's return for example. In addition neither has Ezekiel 37:16-28, and what Jesus told the disciples in Matthew 24, been fulfilled yet.

Grandpa said:

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." Galatians 3:10

This doesn't mean that we are saved by our own performance to attain salvation. This verse also distinguishes "works" "law" "under" and "curse." It can be said that those who are servants of Torah are still under a curse. The last part of the verse shows that if we refuse to "act," by our own volition of rejecting Torah, we are cursed. Again that doesn't mean we are saved by our own actions either.

Grandpa said:

Salvation is truly a blessing unearned by us, and only through Christ. Blessings and cursings are attained by our actions. We are responsible to continue in righteousness after being born again by the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ our Savior. The instructions in righteousness are written in the Old Testament where we find the Torah instructions. "All scripture (New Testament had not been written yet) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Grandpa said:

I agree completely.

Grandpa said:

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" Galatians 3:13 The definitions of curses are discribed by the law, same as a fireman that issues instructions not to enter a burning house doesn't make him the fire.
The law was never a curse. It is Holy, just and good. Rejection brings a curse defined in the Torah. Acceptance brings blessing defined in the Torah, but still, our actions do not bring salvation to us. A merciful, graceful, loving God doesn't give instructions telling us to sin so He can bring a curse upon us. If that is the Father Jesus followed, then there would be no blessing though Christ either.

Grandpa said:

"The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law." 1 Corinthians 15:56 If the law has no power to save us, it also has no power to force us to sin. As the law diminishes so does sin. When the law increases so does the knowledge of sin. The law makes it clear what sin is, but is not sin itself. God did not give sin to us by the written law. He gave the Torah to define what sin is. Transgressions came before the law what given. The strength of sin is elucidated by the law.
"For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." James 1:23-25

Grandpa said:

Agreed completely, and the law shows us who we are in the flesh.

Thank you for your input but these questions were not addressed specifically.
Did the law hang on a tree, or did Jesus hang on a tree? Of course that can be seen as a leading question so I will say that Jesus became sin for our sakes and Jesus never said that He was the law. "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2 Corinthians 5:21

Was the law a curse, or was Jesus crucified to destroy sin that would bring a curse?

Elin · May 5, 2015

slave said:

Okay. . .but when Jesus says his sheep (the born again) shall never perish because no one can snatch them from his hand or the Father's hand (Jn 10:28-29),
are you sure the sheep are strong enough to wriggle themselves out of Jesus' and the Father's hand?
Would the Father not discipline his son to keep that from happening, to keep him from "falling" out fatally?

Would the born again thereby become unborn. . .again?

Tell me, no. . .or are we on different sides of the Scriptures here. . .which as you know have only one side, all in harmony with themselves.

Bowhunter2394 · May 5, 2015

Elin said:

Who are Kept by the Power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Kept by the Power Of God.. the Sheep are... those who Hear His Voice...... this not of 'mans power or own keeping'..

unless man wants to play 'god' then salvation, its merits , and the keeping is all up to him/her.. we see alot of that today..

The curse of the law

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