The dead are asleep

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L

Laodicea

Guest
#1
#1
1 Kings 2:10
(10) So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
1 Kings 11:43
(43) And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 14:31
(31) And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 15:8
(8) And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 16:28
(28) So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria: and Ahab his son reigned in his stead.

New Testament
John 11:11-14
(11) These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
(12) Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
(13) Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
(14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Mark 5:35-39
(35) While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further?
(36) As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.
(37) And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.
(38) And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.
(39) And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
1 Corinthians 15:51
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

People will be woken when Jesus returns
Daniel 12:2
(2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#2
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#2
Ive read many of these scriptures and wondered about wether we all will sleep.
As Ive seen scripture as well, that speaks to some being with the Lord.
In the end it does not matter, as all that matters is wether asleep or alive, that we live in Jesus! :)

God bless
pickles
 
I

Israel

Guest
#3
#3
Do all people sleep at death? What of those that have eternal life in them now?
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#4
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#4
Israel said:
Do all people sleep at death? What of those that have eternal life in them now?
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I have wondered as well, for in revelations it speaks to Jesus calling those dead in Him first, then those alive.
When I find myself unable to understand some mysteries, I do know that Jesus holds all understanding for me, so I rest all in Him, trusting in His Holy Spirit to reviel. :)

God bless
pickles
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#5
#5
I believe that all who die in the Lord go (in their spirit) directly into His presence at the moment of their death and are there awaiting the day of judgement and the resurrection of their bodies.

Philippians 1:21-24 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your accont."

2 Corinthians 5:6-9 "So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please Him."

Luke 23:43 "And He said to him, Truly, I say to you, TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE."

The evidence to me is overwhelming that we go to be with the Lord in our spirit and will be with Him always, receiveing our resurrected bodies at the end of the world.

God bless!!!!

Tom
 
Z

Zilla64007

Banned
#6
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
#6
and your proof, tombo, is based on only 9 out of 31,103 verses?
thats a bit weak, tombo
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#7
#7
Tombo said:
I believe that all who die in the Lord go (in their spirit) directly into His presence at the moment of their death and are there awaiting the day of judgement and the resurrection of their bodies.

Philippians 1:21-24 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your accont."

2 Corinthians 5:6-9 "So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please Him."

Luke 23:43 "And He said to him, Truly, I say to you, TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE."

The evidence to me is overwhelming that we go to be with the Lord in our spirit and will be with Him always, receiveing our resurrected bodies at the end of the world.

God bless!!!!

Tom
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Tom's proof is very carefully inlaid in The Word's said pages of certain Truth, including Jesus' parables that are ANYTHING BUT fables,, and alzó are seen in the Word's promises to take us to immortality soon as our earthly noroeste die and our spirits go back ti he with Him with, HALLELUJAH, we in them. , faithfully throughout scripture , OT and NT.

This is what I believe, life everlasting, from death to eternal life translation.

Just like that, green? Just like that, and, pick many, but a verse like this helps one believe in the Almighty's transference of us from state to state.

Immortality ! What does that word mean to you? 2 Timothy 1:10. :)
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#8
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#8
Tombo said:
I believe that all who die in the Lord go (in their spirit) directly into His presence at the moment of their death and are there awaiting the day of judgement and the resurrection of their bodies.

Philippians 1:21-24 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your accont."

2 Corinthians 5:6-9 "So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please Him."

Luke 23:43 "And He said to him, Truly, I say to you, TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE."

The evidence to me is overwhelming that we go to be with the Lord in our spirit and will be with Him always, receiveing our resurrected bodies at the end of the world.

God bless!!!!

Tom
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It usually takes more than three examples to have overwhelming evidence.

Context: 1:12 The gospel might be furthered and that Christ might be magnified (v20) to this end he cared not whether he lived or died; for he says "to me living (is ) Christ and dying (would be) gain. Yet what I shall choose I wot not, for I am being pressed out of this two (ie living or dying (v21,22) by a third thing v23,12) having a strong desire unto the return (analuo) [of Christ] and to be with Christ which is a far better thing. - v23 Paul's desire was not "to depart" himself by dying but his desire was for the return of Christ. The verb rendered "depart" analuo only used twice once as "return" (Luke 12:36) and once as "depart". Shroom2 has endeavored to expound on this but you refuse to see it in context.

2 Corinthians 5:6,8 Here the context is the resurrection not death. We cannot be "present with the Lord" except by being in our resurrection body, our
"house which is from heaven." (v2)

Luke 23:43 Future paradise= 1) paradise, Eden, garden - glorious park like beauty 2) Never used in any other sense than that of an earthly place of beauty 3) tree of life and the river of "the water of life" are its great characteristics. Paradise is regained in Revelation 22:1-5, 14, 17

I know this was a waste of time but I would encourage you to study these scripture more deeply than just quoting them all the time.:)

God bless.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#9
#9
When we are asleep we have no knowledge of the world around us we do not know anything, hous can pass in what seems like a monent. SInce the BIble calls death a sleep then they who have fallen asleep in death do not know anything.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#10
#10
Laodicea said:
When we are asleep we have no knowledge of the world around us we do not know anything, hous can pass in what seems like a monent. SInce the BIble calls death a sleep then they who have fallen asleep in death do not know anything.
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They may seem to make sense, but Paul was talking to living people. He in no way implied that what he was saying to tehm was meant to be understood as being dead and waking up on judgemnt day. The context doesn't allow it, and it just doesn't make sense.
To be away from the body is to be present with the Lord. The only time we are away from the body is at death. Why can't people see the clear teaching that the unsaved dead are dead until judgment day and the saved dead are alive in their spirit until judgment day and will receive their glorified body at that time? Is that so hard to see???
I don't know what truht people think they are protecting by holding to that lie? All of the arguments I've seen go against scripture and reason.
God bless.

Tom
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#11
#11
peacefulbeliever said:
It usually takes more than three examples to have overwhelming evidence.

Context: 1:12 The gospel might be furthered and that Christ might be magnified (v20) to this end he cared not whether he lived or died; for he says "to me living (is ) Christ and dying (would be) gain. Yet what I shall choose I wot not, for I am being pressed out of this two (ie living or dying (v21,22) by a third thing v23,12) having a strong desire unto the return (analuo) [of Christ] and to be with Christ which is a far better thing. - v23 Paul's desire was not "to depart" himself by dying but his desire was for the return of Christ. The verb rendered "depart" analuo only used twice once as "return" (Luke 12:36) and once as "depart". Shroom2 has endeavored to expound on this but you refuse to see it in context.

2 Corinthians 5:6,8 Here the context is the resurrection not death. We cannot be "present with the Lord" except by being in our resurrection body, our
"house which is from heaven." (v2)

Luke 23:43 Future paradise= 1) paradise, Eden, garden - glorious park like beauty 2) Never used in any other sense than that of an earthly place of beauty 3) tree of life and the river of "the water of life" are its great characteristics. Paradise is regained in Revelation 22:1-5, 14, 17

I know this was a waste of time but I would encourage you to study these scripture more deeply than just quoting them all the time.:)

God bless.
Click to expand...
Who's reading things into the text now??? Paul didn't say it "would be" gain, He said IT IS GAIN.
You need to stop being shroom's yes man and look at what the scripture is actually saying!!!!
God bless.

Tom
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#12
#12
If you read the context of what Paul is saying he is talking about the resurrection not what happens at death.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#13
#13
The context in Philippians is that Paul was facing the real possibility of being executed. But he wasn't upset about it becasue he knew "to be absent/away from the body was to be present with the Lord."
Why fight againt this clear teaching, you will never explain it away or destroy the hope it gives to believers here on this earth.
God bless all here!!!!

Tom
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#14
#14
Read from uhe beginning of the chapter he was not worried about death because he knew that he would recieve a new body. Why do you fight against this clear teaching?
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#15
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#15
Tombo said:
Who's reading things into the text now??? Paul didn't say it "would be" gain, He said IT IS GAIN.
You need to stop being shroom's yes man and look at what the scripture is actually saying!!!!
God bless.

Tom
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Tom - both usages of "is" (which you are so emphatic about) are in italics and thus therefore added to the text by the translators.

I will be anyone's "yes man" if what they say lines up with the word.

We will only be made alive at the return of Christ - scripture is very clear on this. Shown in the verse below and many, many others.

1 Co. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

God bless. :)
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#16
#16
Laodicea said:
Read from uhe beginning of the chapter he was not worried about death because he knew that he would recieve a new body. Why do you fight against this clear teaching?
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"To be away from/absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." We are only ever absent from our bodies in the interim between our bodily death and the last day. So it is SO CLEAR that when Paul speaks of being present with the Lord, he is speaking of being present in his spirit essence when he dies. Jesus told the thief next to him "Truly, I say to you, TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE."
You are the one fighting against this clear teaching. Death is not an enemy to the believer anymore. When he dies physically he goes in his spirit to be with his Lord. At the end he will receive his glorified body that will never die. You seem to have some trouble with the fact that the spirit of saved man can live without a body. All of the verses I've presented show clearly he can live in his spirit with the Lord.
I know the majority of people here see that truth. You and few others here are the only ones having a hard time with this clear teaching. You are not bringing the truth, and you are taking away (not to mention saying Jesus was wrong) from God's glory by saying that He is the God of the dead and not of the living.
God bless.

Tom
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#17
#17
peacefulbeliever said:
Tom - both usages of "is" (which you are so emphatic about) are in italics and thus therefore added to the text by the translators.

I will be anyone's "yes man" if what they say lines up with the word.

We will only be made alive at the return of Christ - scripture is very clear on this. Shown in the verse below and many, many others.

1 Co. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

God bless. :)
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Christ is the firstfruits from the dead. He was the first one raised in His body. The verses I've presented show that the saved who die before His return are not in their bodies yet, but only alive in their spirits. When the end comes, then they will receive their immortal bodies. There is no contradiction between this and 1 Corinthians 15:22. Christ died for us and rose again in His glorified body (the firstfruit), we who die before His return go to be with Him in our spirit and will be given our glorified bodies at Christ's second coming. Christ first, then the dead believers He brings with Him, and those who are alive when He returns will receive their glorified bodies. It is clear.
God bless.

Tom
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#18
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#18
Tombo said:
Christ is the firstfruits from the dead. He was the first one raised in His body. The verses I've presented show that the saved who die before His return are not in their bodies yet, but only alive in their spirits. When the end comes, then they will receive their immortal bodies. There is no contradiction between this and 1 Corinthians 15:22. Christ died for us and rose again in His glorified body (the firstfruit), we who die before His return go to be with Him in our spirit and will be given our glorified bodies at Christ's second coming. Christ first, then the dead believers He brings with Him, and those who are alive when He returns will receive their glorified bodies. It is clear.
God bless.

Tom
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Ok Tom. . . . .:) BUT if we are already there what purpose is the resurrection? Nevermind I know - to get our glorified bodies - so he will bring us back from heaven to return us to our body then raise us up as one whole body. . . .


afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#19
#19
the spirit is the breath of life and is separate from the soul. the breauh of life goes back to god who gave it. the bible does not say only the breath of life from good people go to god. the bible never calls the soul eternal. show me 1 verse in the bible that says the soul is eternal with the 2 words actually linked together.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#20
#20
peacefulbeliever said:
Ok Tom. . . . .:) BUT if we are already there what purpose is the resurrection? Nevermind I know - to get our glorified bodies - so he will bring us back from heaven to return us to our body then raise us up as one whole body. . . .


afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
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You've just about got it right. He will bring us back with Him to receive our raised up glorified bodies and to change the living believers bodies into their immortal bodies. Don't scare me now and make me think you've actually got it!!!!:D
Really, I know you are trying to understand and want to hold to the truth, so I don't fault you for that. I just wish you can see this glorious truth.
God bless you, PB.

Tom
 
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