the death of self-righteousness

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theanointedsinner

Guest
#21
Sin is failing to obey God, to love God and others, it is something that separate us from God.

This video explains it much more deeply
may your simplicity continue to be refreshing
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
971
113
31
#22
The foundation.

1 Corinthians 2:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#23
I am afraid that there is a gross misunderstanding here about the doctrine that says that man can be without sin in this life.

The doctrine does not claim that this is from birth nor that man must never have sinned to be holy.

All have sinned - no exception, but Christ came to save men from their sins, and when they turn from their futile ability to serve God in the flesh with their bible reading, church attendance, 'decision for Christ', He can then transform them so that walk as Jesus walked and be in complete obedience to their saviour.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,670
3,054
113
#24
If we are trying to "save ourselves", trying to "sustain, maintain" and somehow "protect" our own salvation, then we are no different than blind guides leading another blind guides. (Matthew 15:14) We just can't do it, even with our so called "best of intentions" and I'm also sure that we've all heard of the say "the highway to hell :devilish: is paved with good intentions".

We have to keep in mind that our hearts are so deceitful and desperately wicked, that, let's put it this way ... no matter how "open-minded" or "self-forgiving" or how familiar we feel that we are to our own evil ways, God know the worst of us to the point where, just a small glimpse of our worst sin is enough to haunt us in our nightmares till the end of days :eek: if God ever choose to reveal that to us. We just "can't take it", we won't be able to handle it. May we be thankful that God is merciful in not revealing our true worst self to us.

Apostle Peter who have said in John 6:68, "Lord, to whom shall we go to, you have the word of eternal life", such level of devotion is easy to see why Peter would think that he would lay down his life for Jesus, even though Jesus said, "Peter, please don't overestimate yourself, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three time", and I'm sure Peter refused to believe that, until that actually happened right before his very eyes, and and Peter wepts. :cry:

1 Cor 10:12 - if you think you are standing firm, be careful do not fall

the possibility of sin exist
Therefore, sin nature exist

John 8:7 - he who is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone

Apostle Peter is disqualified to cast a stone, how much more disqualified are those who believe in false doctrine of sinless perfectionist :unsure:

and also
John 3:17 - Jesus came not to condemn but to save :giggle:


Adam gave us the curse of sin
Jesus gave us the gift of eternal life (summarized version of Romans 5)

these should be enough scripture to focus on for now,:geek: let us meditate
Great Post :) I totally agree with your post..

Our eternal salvation is all down to what Jesus did to provide us with the Way of salvation, in which all we need do is believe Jesus and trust in what He did for us..
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#25
Jesus said, "Peter, please don't overestimate yourself, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three time", and I'm sure Peter refused to believe that, until that actually happened right before his very eyes, and and Peter wepts. :cry:

1 Cor 10:12 - if you think you are standing firm, be careful do not fall

the possibility of sin exist
Therefore, sin nature exist

John 8:7 - he who is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone

Apostle Peter is disqualified to cast a stone, how much more disqualified are those who believe in false doctrine of sinless perfectionist :unsure:
Texts taken out of context - Peter was not in the position that he and the other disciples were after Pentecost and the baptism of the Spirit. All of the disciples frequently sinned before then - after it was unusual.

John 8:3 says The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group

It was the teachers and Pharisees that Jesus was speaking to. No mention of Peter.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,141
10,945
113
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#26
Great Post :) I totally agree with your post..

Our eternal salvation is all down to what Jesus did to provide us with the Way of salvation, in which all we need do is believe Jesus and trust in what He did for us..
Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) :)
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
#27
Texts taken out of context - Peter was not in the position that he and the other disciples were after Pentecost and the baptism of the Spirit. All of the disciples frequently sinned before then - after it was unusual.

John 8:3 says The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group

It was the teachers and Pharisees that Jesus was speaking to. No mention of Peter.
We can all agree that the Bible applies today.

would you like to identify the similarities between everyday people and Peter? and how about the pharisees?

after it was unusual.
what do you think about the verse,
1 Cor 10:12 - if you think you are standing firm, be careful do not fall

why worry about "falling" if you will always obey and never sin?
if you will always obey, why would Apostle Paul give warnings in the bible, as stated in 1 Cor 10:12 as if you will "fall" in some way?
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,211
6,785
113
#28
If we are trying to "save ourselves", trying to "sustain, maintain" and somehow "protect" our own salvation, then we are no different than blind guides leading another blind guides. (Matthew 15:14) We just can't do it, even with our so called "best of intentions" and I'm also sure that we've all heard of the say "the highway to hell :devilish: is paved with good intentions".

We have to keep in mind that our hearts are so deceitful and desperately wicked, that, let's put it this way ... no matter how "open-minded" or "self-forgiving" or how familiar we feel that we are to our own evil ways, God know the worst of us to the point where, just a small glimpse of our worst sin is enough to haunt us in our nightmares till the end of days :eek: if God ever choose to reveal that to us. We just "can't take it", we won't be able to handle it. May we be thankful that God is merciful in not revealing our true worst self to us.

Apostle Peter who have said in John 6:68, "Lord, to whom shall we go to, you have the word of eternal life", such level of devotion is easy to see why Peter would think that he would lay down his life for Jesus, even though Jesus said, "Peter, please don't overestimate yourself, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three time", and I'm sure Peter refused to believe that, until that actually happened right before his very eyes, and and Peter wepts. :cry:

1 Cor 10:12 - if you think you are standing firm, be careful do not fall

the possibility of sin exist
Therefore, sin nature exist

John 8:7 - he who is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone

Apostle Peter is disqualified to cast a stone, how much more disqualified are those who believe in false doctrine of sinless perfectionist :unsure:

and also
John 3:17 - Jesus came not to condemn but to save :giggle:


Adam gave us the curse of sin
Jesus gave us the gift of eternal life (summarized version of Romans 5)

these should be enough scripture to focus on for now,:geek: let us meditate
I have read and heard almost every OSAS but never quite accepted it because of all the warnings and the words like finish and overcome. So I think our faith needs to rooted. But you have managed to reach my stubborn noggin. I'm thinking. U make excellent points. Your smileys are funny.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
#29
I have read and heard almost every OSAS but never quite accepted it because of all the warnings and the words like finish and overcome. So I think our faith needs to rooted. But you have managed to reach my stubborn noggin. I'm thinking. U make excellent points. Your smileys are funny.
Ms Chari Bear Renee, this is quite a testimony, and thank you that you noticed. I'm glad to know that I'm making a difference, as you are evidence of that difference. if you ask me what would I rather, I would rather that people repent from the errors of their mistaken thinking than to see them "ignored", the same way that God would rather that people repent than perish. Thank you for your kind words and it's quite an encouragement to hear from you.

may God continue to bless you with love and balance

In Christ,
anointed
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#30
We can all agree that the Bible applies today.

would you like to identify the similarities between everyday people and Peter? and how about the pharisees?

Peter is a good example of what it is to walk in the flesh v walk in the Spirit as we can see the clear difference in him pre and post baptism (of the Spirit). He came to that point of going face down to the ashes which humiliated him and prepared him for the gift of righteousness imparted not imputed only from Christ. The Pharisees however, were full of self righteousness like many today in the church.

what do you think about the verse,
1 Cor 10:12 - if you think you are standing firm, be careful do not fall

why worry about "falling" if you will always obey and never sin?
if you will always obey, why would Apostle Paul give warnings in the bible, as stated in 1 Cor 10:12 as if you will "fall" in some way?

This is an example of how the doctrine called sinless perfection is greatly misunderstood. It does not mean that one can reach a point where one will never sin again. No matter how high one has reached on the mountain of perfection, one can fall and sometimes will. There are evn more dangers the higher one reaches and especially regarding spiritual pride.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#31
If we are trying to "save ourselves", trying to "sustain, maintain" and somehow "protect" our own salvation, then we are no different than blind guides leading another blind guides.
Well, if you were blind you would have no sin because whosoever commits sin also transgresses the law.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
#32
When I was 17 I believe God revealed my "true worst self" to me. He should me the type of person I would become if I continue on the road to selfishness. I don't remember it all but I remember waking horrified at the image of an older me bathing in the blood of my loved ones and laughing. In the dream, i had all the power and money in the world, but I had lost my soul and compassion for anyone including myself.

It was a wake up call.

Anyway hope you have a blessed day and this thread is filled with pleasant and helpful responses. We could use a few more of those threads here in bdf.
in short, whoever my worst possible self is, I definitely don't want to meet that "self" in the dark alleyway (if we have sufficient imagination)
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
#33
in response to post #30 on Hepziban's post

is there a difference between welcoming salvation, and the process of sanctification? if so, what would that difference be?
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
#34
Peter is a good example of what it is to walk in the flesh v walk in the Spirit as we can see the clear difference in him pre and post baptism (of the Spirit). He came to that point of going face down to the ashes which humiliated him and prepared him for the gift of righteousness imparted not imputed only from Christ. The Pharisees however, were full of self righteousness like many today in the church.
what's your view on salvation?

This is an example of how the doctrine called sinless perfection is greatly misunderstood. It does not mean that one can reach a point where one will never sin again. No matter how high one has reached on the mountain of perfection, one can fall and sometimes will. There are evn more dangers the higher one reaches and especially regarding spiritual pride.
this part is sanctification, not salvation

please clarify the difference if any.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
#35
to sum up the process of sancitification: humility, rely on God, bear fruit, humility and repeat ...

@Hepzibah
the question is, what do you believe is the process of salvation?
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#36
Hi @theanointedsinner

I believe that a man is saved as follows:

"1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. "

Not the baptism of water, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

So the process is: a man comes to Christ for forgiveness when he knows he is a sinner, and is given power to become a son of God. Many believers get stuck at this point but those who are willing to give their all for Christ, will be led to the place where they will truly know what crucifixion with Christ really means, and like the disciples who were followers but were not in the Spirit until Pentecost, they will need to have their own Pentecost. It is a time of stipping away all that a man has in life till there is nothing left but Christ. Full salvation comes at this point and it is doubtable to me that a man is saved previous to it..













21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, unow saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but vas an appeal to God for a good conscience, wthrough the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
#37
Hepzibah, we believe that salvation is much simpler than that

here is a short description of it, if you are interested ...
Salvation is a one off, eternal event with present continuing results form a past completed action-->FAITH into Christ and acknowledging said faith.

Sanctification is dual in usage....

a. One is sanctified POSITIONALLY in Christ eternally at the moment of belief-->Hebrews
b. Sanctification of our daily life is based upon the transformational process described in Romans 12:1-2....it is subject to growth, maturity, successes and set backs........

^hence, no miraculous Acts-2-like Pentecostal event is necessary for salvation
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
#38
Hepzibah, we believe that salvation is much simpler than that

here is a short description of it, if you are interested ...
Salvation is a one off, eternal event with present continuing results form a past completed action-->FAITH into Christ and acknowledging said faith.

Sanctification is dual in usage....

a. One is sanctified POSITIONALLY in Christ eternally at the moment of belief-->Hebrews
b. Sanctification of our daily life is based upon the transformational process described in Romans 12:1-2....it is subject to growth, maturity, successes and set backs........

^hence, no miraculous Acts-2-like Pentecostal event is necessary for salvation
in short, salvation is faith in God's grace
anything else in the Christian life is sanctification