Reading 1 John chapter 3. Verse 8.
KJV.
I could do with clarification on this point. I thought the devil was originally Lucifer, Bearer of Light, a powerful angel in heaven. That he was thrown out of heaven along with a third of the angels.
So from what point had he been sinning? It depends on what The Beginning means.
1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
Exactly, it depends on what in the beginning means, and for this we must be consistent in our biblical application.
For some reason when it concerns Satan people throw logic and sense out the window, I mean we already have examples on how God talks to us.
John also tells us the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
And people will then correctly explain that Jesus was not slain at the beginning of creation as it appears to tell us but that the plan of salvation was known from the beginning by God and put into action.
Its a bit like the verse the devil is the father of lies, so people go aha that means Satan lied at the beginning in the garden, yet when we read that Abraham is the father of faith, people don't go aha Abraham was the first to believe by faith, therefore Adam and Noah etc had no faith. It means exactly how people explain it that Abraham is a pattern of faith for all to follow. To me it's hypocritical to apply one reasoning one way then say its not even possible for it to apply to Satan in the same manner.
And what does the first part of the verse say again,
1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil,
We can see Satan is a pattern for all who do what is sinful and are following Satan's example, also John tells us God knows who are in the book of life, therefore we can conclude God knows those who will not be, God knows this before he spoke the Words that brought our creation into being.
Note: This is foreknowledge not predestination.
Of course this ties into your next thought.
I am just idly wondering why a lying deceitful being was doing slithering around in the garden of Eden which was the ideal paradise for the first humans.
Satan was a Cherub, and we can also see in the tabernacle which is a pattern of the heavenly, that Cherubs had a role of covering God's glory, also in the tabernacle we can see the Aaronic priesthood's role, which was included the role of mediation.
We can see in the description of Lucifer that nine stones of the high priests breastplate are also a part of his make up, so I see Satan was created to act as a priest. So I don't see Satan as the sinful being, sneaking into the garden of Eden and thwarting Gods well intended plan.
So to me he was there for a perfectly good and legitimate reason, and ties in with our creation being very good.
As for the lie in the garden I haven't worked out what the supposed lie is yet, sure Satan may have wanted to see if Adam would disobey Gods command and therefore misled Eve.
When he told Eve if they ate of the tree she would then have knowledge of good and evil, true, after they ate they knew what disobedience was, and what evil was.
He told Eve that if she ate of the tree she would not die, she ate of the tree and she did not die. And yes one say that she spiritually died, but God still had to remove them from the garden or they would live forever.
Also remember this must have been Gods plan through foreknowledge, God never intended for us to live in paradise, without us knowing what good and evil is, in fact it even makes sense that now that we know what good and evil is, we can now make an informed choice and choose to follow God, God and not the world and the pleasures of it. Even if we are the minority that choose to have sin removed from us in our next life.
Any way you also said that Satan was thrown out of heaven with a third of his angels, this account is in Rev 12, and the timing is super specific so that there can be no misunderstandings, (I say this and laugh, you will already have read commentaries that say this happened at the beginning, then they forget they say this and also say it happened per the timing of Rev 12)
Rev 12 says that first a sign of a woman appeared in heaven then a dragon appeared in heaven and then cast a third of the stars to the ground to devour the child. And you will have 100 different opinions of what/who the woman is who the child is, etc, I simply see the woman as Israel, after the Angel announced to Mary she is with child, all of heaven saw one of the great momentous events of our creation, God lowering Himself to become a man and entering the womb of Mary.
The child being God who has become flesh and dwelt among us is. (Immanuel), Jesus Christ.
Whom Herod(Satan) tried to kill(devour) after He was born in Bethlehem.
The serpent (nachash) means shining one, and was an animal in the garden people don't talk about its role in the garden, people don't talk about Melchizedek the priest without genealogy, and why Abraham refused the way this priest of the most high God wanted the tithe, also why did he seem more interested in having the people, and why the heck was a priest of the most high God hanging out with the likes of the King of Sodom in the first place?
I have a different view of Satan than most, not that he is good, just that he started out as good, and possibly still thinks of himself as good(like all sinners do) just food for thought, don't worry I don't expect you or anyone to agree with me, Im just showing how I think as food for thought, I dare not show all the food or it may get thrown at me, but even with differing views we can still see things in others views to appreciate, well I do when reading others takes anyway.
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