I agree with you as long as we know Jresus was God incarnate that He died for our sine, and rose again ion the third day, As long as we confess this with our mouths and believe it in our hearts we will be saved, and as long as we xcqantinue to serve God and not man both Oneness and trinitarian believers will be in Heaven. However remember it is the trinitarians that call other heretics. That type of behavior will keep you out of Heaven.
The Doctine of Oneness
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H
Yes well, whoever the heretic is, I'm sure God will sort out later. I'm a trinitarian, but I'm not going to go throwing around the word heretic at people over something that is completely interpretation. We are all extremely quick to point fingers and cry out HERETIC, LIAR, DECIEVER for things we can't actually prove. It makes me sad, because non christians see all this division, all this hate, animosity, and arguement between Christians, and who wants to be a part of that? Who wants to join a religion where other people who claim to be of the same religion bash them, argue with them, tell them they are wrong, throw scripture at them not in an attempt to show them the Truth, but to make them feel like an idiot. Nobody sees the love of Christ when they look at us, all they see are loons, snobs, and hypocrits. It makes me sad.
A half truth is a whole lie, I did not call him a heretic because he was trinitarian, but because he called me a heretic first. Now was that wrong?sure. Have I learned from it? You bet ya. But for you to say I called him a heretic because he was trintiarian makes you a liar. Certainly that is not the only one you could come up with, if so you have proven my point. It is the Trinitarians calling others heretics not the Oneness, and even though you claim to have the majority on your side in these forums at least it seem to be split 50/50
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hehe it doesn't make me a liar, because how in the world am I able to read your thoughts? But you know, you saying that others shouldn't call other heretics when you do the same thing yourself, sure makes you a hypocrite. Anyway Trinitarians are fully justified in saying that, because anyone who teaches heresy (which is contrary teaching to sound or established doctrine) is a heretic. It's not meant to be an insult, it's a statement of fact. And anything contrary to the Trinity doctrine has been classed as a heresy in every mainstream denomination since the canon of scripture was closed. Besides you even gladly accepted the title of heretic : when you said :
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"If Oneness is heresy according to the ''orthodox'' belief then I gladly accept the title heretic."
So I'm not sure why you are kicking up a fuss now about being called a heretic. Accept it gladly, enjoy it. If it makes you feel aloof from mainstream christianity - good, because sometimes we need others to bring us back to the straight and narrow. Now I don't care abouti "majority on my side" in these forums, the fact is, (and it remains a fact whether this was in this forum or not), that the church has taught the Trinity for 1700 years and that is not based upon a false doctrine ( no mainstream protestant denomination has rejected the Trinity?) but a spiritual truth revealed and easily seen in God's Word. The fact that you can't see it is a testimony to your own religious pride and blindness. The fact that you think the whole rest of christianity to be wrong and you right is also a testimony to your own blindness. Can only you correctly interpret Scripture and have the Spirit, and the rest of christianity doesn't?
S
Just remember this:
Exd 34:14For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Deu 6:4¶Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Our Eternal Father says: Isa 43:11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Our Eternal Father our Lord says:
Isa 45:21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have]not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Our Father our Saviour says:
Isa 49:26And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
Isa 60:16Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
Our Father was manifested in the flesh:
Luk 2:11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Jhn 4:42And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Exd 34:14For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Deu 6:4¶Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Our Eternal Father says: Isa 43:11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Our Eternal Father our Lord says:
Isa 45:21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have]not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Our Father our Saviour says:
Isa 49:26And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
Isa 60:16Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
Our Father was manifested in the flesh:
Luk 2:11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Jhn 4:42And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
C
From my post in the topic "Jesus is both Father & Son", since this is basically the same thread:
In Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is indeed called "Everlasting Father". We can't deny that. But I believe he's called that because he's the father of Christianity. Here's why:
Abraham is called The father (of many nations). That's what his name literally meant. Does that mean he was literally the father of his entire lineage?
Genesis 17:5 - No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.
David is called Jesus' "father", because David was a king in Jesus' lineage, and God promised his throne would be eternal. Does that make David Jesus' literal father?
Luke 1:32 - He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David
David's throne is said to be eternal. That would make Jesus' throne eternal. His throne makes him the king of (ready for this? *drum roll*) Christianity.
2 Samuel 7:16 [To David, from God] - Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.
Is it so far-fetched, with such precedents as these, to come to the conclusion that "Eternal Father" meant Eternally the Father of Christianity, not "God the Father"? Is it? Please tell me why it is, and please, PLEASE use relevant verses this time.
In Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is indeed called "Everlasting Father". We can't deny that. But I believe he's called that because he's the father of Christianity. Here's why:
Abraham is called The father (of many nations). That's what his name literally meant. Does that mean he was literally the father of his entire lineage?
Genesis 17:5 - No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.
David is called Jesus' "father", because David was a king in Jesus' lineage, and God promised his throne would be eternal. Does that make David Jesus' literal father?
Luke 1:32 - He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David
David's throne is said to be eternal. That would make Jesus' throne eternal. His throne makes him the king of (ready for this? *drum roll*) Christianity.
2 Samuel 7:16 [To David, from God] - Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.
Is it so far-fetched, with such precedents as these, to come to the conclusion that "Eternal Father" meant Eternally the Father of Christianity, not "God the Father"? Is it? Please tell me why it is, and please, PLEASE use relevant verses this time.
C
Oh OK then which one is God for you? Seeming you are saying there are 3 seperate entities, and the Son is not the Father and the Holy Spirit is a seperate personality, so you divide, there is only complete unity or complete division, you cannot claim both;
you say "we never said there was more than one God"
I would like you to contemplate that and try to comprehend the ridiculous nature of your statement!
Just think about, please, prayerfully....
you say "we never said there was more than one God"
I would like you to contemplate that and try to comprehend the ridiculous nature of your statement!
Just think about, please, prayerfully....
C
God takes on 3 roles himself at one time. He took on the role of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. He begot Jesus, the Son, and since there can only be one God, it is safe to assume that Jesus, coming out of God, was God.
Is Jesus the Father? No, because that's not the role God is playing in that persona of Himself.
Is the Father the Holy Spirit? No, because that's not the role God is playing in that persona of Himself. If He was, our prayers would be answered inside ourselves, and in 2 places in heaven, at the same time.
It's the Father's duty to hear the prayers. It's the Spirit's duty to send them up. Both are God.
It's like an actor who plays multiple roles in a movie. Think of The Nutty Professor. Eddie Murphy is on the screen in multiple roles at the same time. Is he still the same person? Yes. God is like that, except instead of having to piece together the scenes, he's literally playing the multiple roles at the same time.
Is Jesus the Father? No, because that's not the role God is playing in that persona of Himself.
Is the Father the Holy Spirit? No, because that's not the role God is playing in that persona of Himself. If He was, our prayers would be answered inside ourselves, and in 2 places in heaven, at the same time.
It's the Father's duty to hear the prayers. It's the Spirit's duty to send them up. Both are God.
It's like an actor who plays multiple roles in a movie. Think of The Nutty Professor. Eddie Murphy is on the screen in multiple roles at the same time. Is he still the same person? Yes. God is like that, except instead of having to piece together the scenes, he's literally playing the multiple roles at the same time.
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