The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

[Nehemiah6]

I never said the Letter from Margaret MacDonald was accurate because it is not, which is why the Pre-Trib doctrine is a false teaching.

Why not simply ignore all the propaganda and focus on what is in the Bible? Just one passage -- John 14:1-3 -- should suffice.

THE PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE: REVEALED BY CHRIST BEFORE HIS CRUCIFIXION

NO TRIBULATION BECAUSE JESUS IS GOD WHO WILL ASCEND BACK TO THE FATHER
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

GOD THE FATHER IS IN HEAVEN WHERE THERE ARE MANY MANSIONS FOR THE SAINTS
2 In my Father's house are many mansions... [Note: not just little rooms]

WHAT IS STATED IS ABSOLUTE FACT
...if it were not so, I would have told you...

CHRIST IS IN HEAVEN PREPARING A PLACE FOR HIS OWN IN THE NEW JERUSALEM
...I go to prepare a place for you... For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (Heb 11:10)

THE REVELATION OF THE RAPTURE: I WILL COME AGAIN AND RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself... For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout...(1 Thess 4:16)

THE SAINTS TO BE WITH CHRIST IN HEAVEN ETERNALLY
...that where I am, there ye may be also... and so shall we ever be with the Lord (1 Thess 4:17)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I fail to see what Protein has to do with anything . Where did I say that Pre Tribbers were lost? I didnt compare them with none Christians I was comparing them with people who sincerely believe they have a correct understanding of scripture regarding a doctrine
but haven't A none Christian is someone who has another religion entirely such as a Hindu or Buddhist or anything else apart from Christianity. What I am talking about is a false interpretation of a doctrine. I am ''just discussing'' How I see it is that some cant
bare to conceive of anyone else holding a different view and airing it. It may surprise you but the timing of the rapture is not a salvation issue, but many seem to think it is and go to great lengths trying to convert others to their way of thinking.

You said what they did was no better than what a JW or Mormon would do and you would not listen to them why would you listen to a pretribber

Why are you afraid to admit what you did?
and why would you say it in the first place. Many could say the same about your beliefs would that help
In the conversation?

 

[JamOn]

Huh so who are the fellow servants their brothers who are killed?

Rev 6

9And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”

11Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you. And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. In flaming fire taking
vengeance on them that know not God and obey not the gospel of our Lord
Jesus Christ. Who shall be […]

Verse 7's text reads: "you who are troubled rest/repose with us IN THE REVELATION of the Lord Jesus from heaven with His mighty angels..." 2Th1:7.

The wording of text does not carry the meaning of "will RECEIVE rest when" (it is just stating the fact of).

 

[presidente]

My God job is to fight against false doctrinal teaching and the Pre-Trib Doctrine is in my opinion is a false doctrinal teaching and my opinion is base on the scriptural research I have done on the subject. I have never been influenced by any train of thought or Bible school or any denominational teaching. All of my conclusions come from strictly researching the Word Of God and it was God who gave me an unquenchable desire to research everything I can and every doctrinal belief to see if they align with scripture. Even the tiniest little nugget attracts me.
I am ok with God judging me on that. I don't feel a bit guilty about calling a person who teaches a false doctrine Deranged dead or alive. I am not dragging her name through the mud she drug her own name through the mud by teaching/preaching a false doctrine.
As far as I am concerned she falls into the same category as Adolf Hitler, Carl Marx, Bernie Sanders, Judas, Satan and anybody else who teaches a false doctrine and causes believers to follow that false teaching. It makes me angry when I see it and my heart aches for those who follow a false doctrinal teaching.

he issue is whether the version you quoted was hearsay and whether she wrote it or not. There are at least two versions of it publishedby other people. How do you kniw you aren't bearing false witness.

I think you could benefit from miking fine distinctions. I do not believe in pretrib either ut I do not pitmist pretribbers in the same category as Adolph Hitler.

 

[cv5]

I'll encourage you to read more.

It is about a timeline and most importantly, understanding this timeline; not about people appearing or doing anything.
If you can't follow Daniel's 70 weeks up to the moment we are living, then forget about people appearing and signing some documents.

And there's no rapture at all.

You are making no sense. Sorry to say. The text is shockingly resoundingly clear on the matter.

 

[Jackson123]

Pre-tribbers believe that any one of us can be "persecuted" (even to the death) at any given time. In fact, we acknowledge (as did Paul) that the Thessalonians (even way back then) were enduring ongoing "tribulations and persecutions" per 2Th1:4.

So, this is not the position of "pre-tribbers" (to say such a thing).

"The Church which is His body" has been experiencing persecutions ever since the beginning of its existence on the earth in the first century [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]; . . .

we are not awaiting the future 7-yr period in order to experience it ; l (it has been the experience of "the Church which is His body" throughout its history!)

Yep persecution always happen, but Will be worse in the 7 years tribulation to the point No body able to buy or sale without mark of the beast

 

[JamOn]

11Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.

 

[JamOn]

It might be tomorrow be ready

 

[Noose]

You are making no sense. Sorry to say. The text is shockingly resoundingly clear on the matter.

Resoundingly clear?! where does it say someone will sign a peace treaty in Jerusalem?

These things had their starting point in the 1st century. The man of sin who is also satan or antichrist, already came and has been and will be throughout the entire church period. Basically, it is about the end times and the only thing that was holding the man of lawlessness was the apostles when they preached. Jesus said as soon as the gospel was preached to all nations, then the end will come.

2 Thess 2: 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Q. Where is the temple of God located? If you are able to answer this question, then you'll know how the man of sin is revealed.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

2 Thess 2: 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Q. Where is the temple of God located? If you are able to answer this question, then you'll know how the man of sin is revealed.

The thing is, he is not "revealed" in the "sitteth in the temple of God" [v.4] part (which occurs MID-trib, with 3.5 yrs remaining), but in the EARLIER "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/parousia" [v.9a]['of the man of sin in his time' vv.6,8a] part of the entire "7-yrs" that 2Th2:3-9 is covering (that is, at its START [i.e. SEAL #1]).

 

[JamOn]

The thing is, he is not "revealed" in the "sitteth in the temple of God" [v.4] part (which occurs MID-trib, with 3.5 yrs remaining), but in the EARLIER "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/parousia" [v.9a]['of the man of sin in his time' vv.6,8a] part of the entire "7-yrs" that 2Th2:3-9 is covering (that is, at its START [i.e. SEAL #1]).

hmm interesting is the man of sin the first seal? not quite understanding what you mean

 

[oyster67]

Just make sure your lamp is full and trimmed and burning brightly.

 

[Noose]

The thing is, he is not "revealed" in the "sitteth in the temple of God" [v.4] part (which occurs MID-trib, with 3.5 yrs remaining), but in the EARLIER "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/parousia" [v.9a]['of the man of sin in his time' vv.6,8a] part of the entire "7-yrs" that 2Th2:3-9 is covering (that is, at its START [i.e. SEAL #1]).

The question is, where is the temple of God?

Put in mind that God does not dwell in temple made from human hands.

It is in this temple that the man of sin is being revealed and wants to seat as if God.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The question is, where is the temple of God?

Put in mind that God does not dwell in temple made from human hands.

It is in this temple that the man of sin is being revealed and wants to seat as if God.

[okay, trying to recall your viewpoint... I think I recall, but not 100% sure what you've said in the past, but... here goes...]

[had tried to tack this onto my last post but had timed-out] ...Note also my past posts on how Paul never uses the definite article ("the") when referring to us as "temple"... for those who think it means "in us" or "in people".


Note also that, of the TWO references to "the temple of God" (in eschatological contexts, of the NT), the mention/occurrence in Rev11:1 makes it abundantly clear that "the temple of God" and "THEM that worship THEREIN" are wholly distinct items/entities (esp seeing as these two phrases in THIS verse are separated by another phrase in the middle). [2Th2:4 being the other reference of the two references to this]



[this also gets into the posts I'd made on the specific wording used in Heb9:8-9a, but I won't go into that here in this post]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

hmm interesting is the man of sin the first seal? not quite understanding what you mean

Yes, in past posts I've listed
the PARALLELS [time-wise] of the "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/parousia" of "the man of sin"... and SEAL #1 is one of those in the list (meaning, those mentions occurring at the same point in time / in the chronology).

 

[JamOn]

I have to disagree, the four living creatures come out God’s domain

Rev 6
1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

 

[Rondonmon]

I have to disagree, the four living creatures come out God’s domain

Rev 6
1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

They are Arch Angels....they have been seen on earth before.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I have to disagree, the four living creatures come out God’s domain
Rev 6
1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

I can't tell, but are you saying that you believe "the four living creatures" ARE the "four horses" [Rev6:2,4,5,8] ??

I've mentioned in past posts that "the 24 elders" (sitting on "24 thrones") are representative of "the Church which is His body" (I've pointed out the manuscript evidence showing they say "having redeemed US" in 5:9), shown to be IN HEAVEN b/f Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, etc] by His opening the FIRST SEAL; whereas "the four living creatures" are depicted with the same descriptions that "the four-directional plotment of Israel" was shown to have/be [/be laid out] in the OT. [I believe this concerns God's governmental ways upon the earth... which I've also made posts about in the past, so won't do so here]. A SEAL is opened in/from Heaven, its effects unfold upon the earth.

 

[Jimbone]

Yes, we've all heard the stories of those who claim that Darby, Mary and the others, who supposedly introduced the gathering of the church as taking place prior to the tribulation. All you are doing is repeating the false teachings of others!

I have never read anything by any of those people, but came to the conclusion from all related scriptures that the Lord is going to gather His church/bride prior to His wrath being pouring out which will be initiated by the first seal being opened.

Those who believe and teach that the Lord is going to keep His promise by first putting His bride through His wrath and then gathering them, are not truly believing that Jesus already experience God's wrath, satisfying it completely. Since this is the truth, then the wrath that all believers deserve has been satisfied. God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and therefore, we cannot and will not go through the time of God's wrath. If that were to happen, then the wrath that Jesus experienced would have been for nothing.

The reason that many believe and claim that the church is going to be present on the earth during the time of God's wrath, is because they don't understand the principle of what I just explained above and they don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, over half of the earths population will have been killed within that first 3 1/2 years and that is not including the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1,2 and 3, nor the fatalities resulting from the bowl judgments. Jesus described what the condition of the world would be when He returns to the earth to end the age saying"

"there will be a time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen from the beginning of the world, until now and never to be equaled again. If those days had not be shortened, no one would be left alive.

The Lamb/Jesus, is the One who will be opening the seals, which leads into the trumpet judgments, followed by the bowl judgments. Therefore, it is Jesus who will be unleashing these plagues of wrath. And since that is the truth, then believers cannot be on the earth to experience that wrath.

Neither Darby, nor Mary MacDonald wrote the word of God and that is where we get the information, understanding God's nature, that believers in His Son are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

Soon the Lord is going to appear in the air and with a loud command and with the voice of an archangel and the trumpet of God and is going to call up the dead and change the living, where the entire church, from beginning to end, will meet the Lord in the air. Then in fulfillment of John 14:1-3, He will take His church back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us, that where His we may be also.

My advise to you, is to stop believing and repeating the well known false teachings of men and stick with the written word of God.

Nope the third temple dilemma makes everything you're talking about null and void. When did God command us to build His third temple? When in open scripture did God command us to build a third temple the same way He commanded the first two built? He didn't? Just not yet? Well if that's the case then scripture is still open right, and all hasn't been revealed yet then? See the problem here? For God to have another temple on earth to be desolated in the future, (with no purpose btw because the purpose of the temple was completely fulfilled with Jesus finished work on the cross, that's why God came in judgement to remove it from the earth forever.) He needs to command it to be built, otherwise it's not His temple. So either scripture is closed without a command to rebuild the temple, ever, or scripture is still wide open and maybe some of these nut cases out here saying "God told me" might be telling the truth right? I really want to hear your answer for this, because without this third pointless temple, nothing you teach at all day in and out can possibly be true, and all this time you spend on this false pre-trib endtimes nonsense can be spent proclaiming His kingship and victory over everything, and sing the praises of His completed glory. Amen