The doctrine of election and reprobation

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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#23
You keep quoting yourself so you are only interested in hearing yourself? Typical Calvinist.
LOL my quote is Scripture.You do not recognise it because you are blind to the truth. see Eph 1.3 onwards

WHICH BIBLE ARE YOU DEVOTED TO? OBVIOUSLY NOT THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE
 
May 20, 2016
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#24
That is a bunch of rubbish. Romans ch 9 says no such thing about God not putting a human spirit into certain people.
Do you mean all mankind living in this earth are equal , God put human spirit to all of us when we were born ?.

If there are a, b , c, d. God chose a, b, to go with Him to heaven , and let c, d, roasted to the lof ? ( loved Jacob, hated Esau not caused by their deed ), right ?.

Yesterday a1, b1 went to heaven, c1 ,d1 shall be sent to the lof.

Today a2, b2 is going to heaven, c2, d2 shall be sent to the lof.

Tomorrow a3, b3 is going to go to heaven, c3, d3 shall be sent to the lof .

Then my question : How can this earth end ?. ( tomorrow surely a infinite time ).

Whenever there are still humans (adult , toddler , baby, even the conceived ) with spirit inside (God put that spirit when he or she was born /conceived ) this world will never end.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#25
Do you mean all mankind living in this earth are equal , God put human spirit to all of us when we were born ?.

If there are a, b , c, d. God chose a, b, to go with Him to heaven , and let c, d, roasted to the lof ? ( loved Jacob, hated Esau not caused by their deed ), right ?.

Yesterday a1, b1 went to heaven, c1 ,d1 shall be sent to the lof.

Today a2, b2 is going to heaven, c2, d2 shall be sent to the lof.

Tomorrow a3, b3 is going to go to heaven, c3, d3 shall be sent to the lof .

Then my question : How can this earth end ?. ( tomorrow surely a infinite time ).

Whenever there are still humans (adult , toddler , baby, even the conceived ) with spirit inside (God put that spirit when he or she was born /conceived ) this world will never end.
Then you need to prove Esau is in hell.
 
May 20, 2016
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#26
Then you need to prove Esau is in hell.

Rom9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

not enough?


Rom9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#27
Rom9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

not enough?


Rom9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed
That doesn't say Esau is in hell. Now you must also prove all of Abraham's other children are in hell.
 
May 20, 2016
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#28
That doesn't say Esau is in hell. Now you must also prove all of Abraham's other children are in hell.
Esau is born of flesh , the vessel of wrath who abide in him that the one who shall be thrown to the lof
do you really want to discuss ?.
If he is not counted for the seed ? what seed then ?

Rom9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed


John17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine

John17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Do you see the difference : of the world ( born of flesh ), not of the world ( born of God) ?.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#29
do you really want to discuss ?.
If he is not counted for the seed ? what seed then ?

Rom9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed


John17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine

John17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Do you see the difference : of the world ( born of flesh ), not of the world ( born of God) ?.
That doesn't say Abraham's other children, Isaac's siblings are in hell. You have a problem because Rom ch 9 is not about God choosing who goes to heaven and hell but about God choosing that faith in Christ, not being born a Jew and following the law, makes a person a child of God
 
May 20, 2016
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#30
That doesn't say Abraham's other children, Isaac's siblings are in hell. You have a problem because Rom ch 9 is not about God choosing who goes to heaven and hell but about God choosing that faith in Christ, not being born a Jew and following the law, makes a person a child of God
you didn't read carefully , what i have conveyed .

read carefully please:
By the existence of these such Esau ( without spirit of man inside when he was born because God didn’t put any human spirit inside them ), so the devils /vessels of wrath are possible one day to abide within them so there are devil that transform to be the angels of light, there are antichrist all of them are known as the children of the wicked one Mat13:38-39 , and by their existence the devils surely shall be judged in the last day judgment there surely will be obtained the evidences for suing the devils , unless the devils shall never be able to be judged, unless the saveds / the winners /us will never be able to judge the angels/devils 1Cor6:3 , unless this temporary earth will never end.

The born of flesh merely as dust, they are equated as animals Ecc3:19 , surely will not come to the final judgment (GWT Rev20: 12 / this judgment for spiritually being only ) , the unclean spirit who abide in him who will be judged , born of flesh will surely finish when he or she change to be dust (only literal laws are valid to them ).
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#31
I would like to know how the majority of Christians deal with this doctrine.

The Bible makes it clear that God has written the names of His elect in the book of life, before He laid the foundations of the earth. The Bible is also clear that the reprobate cannot be saved. I have found this particular doctrine hard to understand, so I would appreciate your views on this subject.

What you have stated, is not (a) doctrine at all! Tis (a) Biblical TRUTH!

(and) From my understanding, it is one's mind that is reprobate. Not saying that the reprobate mind hasn't the ability to cause one's soul, heart, spirit, and flesh to become unacceptable (which is how reprobate is translated), because, it does! (and?) On the other hand, when one believes, and accepts Jesus Christ, as their Lord and Savior? This begins the "grafting into the true vine!" Or? The unacceptable in becoming acceptable. Each one, according to their faith. Like that "grain of mustard seed." It can be tended and grown even larger! To a certain point, even "churches of stone" help. (and?) In some instances, this is enough! While, in some instances, it is not! Whichever the instance may be? The "ball is in the believer's court!" For, it is not the "churches of stone's" mustard seed! It's yours! :)
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#32
you didn't read carefully , what i have conveyed .

read carefully please:
By the existence of these such Esau ( without spirit of man inside when he was born because God didn’t put any human spirit inside them ), so the devils /vessels of wrath are possible one day to abide within them so there are devil that transform to be the angels of light, there are antichrist all of them are known as the children of the wicked one Mat13:38-39 , and by their existence the devils surely shall be judged in the last day judgment there surely will be obtained the evidences for suing the devils , unless the devils shall never be able to be judged, unless the saveds / the winners /us will never be able to judge the angels/devils 1Cor6:3 , unless this temporary earth will never end.

The born of flesh merely as dust, they are equated as animals Ecc3:19 , surely will not come to the final judgment (GWT Rev20: 12 / this judgment for spiritually being only ) , the unclean spirit who abide in him who will be judged , born of flesh will surely finish when he or she change to be dust (only literal laws are valid to them ).
Proof that I already carefully read what you posted is that you are repeating the same rubbish.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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#33
Thank you for taking the time to explain it so thoroughly, I see you have studied Gods Word carefully.
I have recently converted from Roman Catholicism, so I have a lot to learn.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#34
I don't understand why people have such a problem with foreknowledge and all-knowingness. I really don't.
Then again, they probably don't understand why I can't grasp some concepts that they facilely handle either.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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#35
Then you believe that you were regenerated to new life BEFORE you had faith in Christ. But the Bible teaches the just shall live by faith (their faith Hab 2:4) not before it.
I couldn't live by faith before I was saved, because I was dead in my sin. Jesus quickened me to life and gave me the gift of faith, that's was my experience being born again. Now I live by faith continuously.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#36
I couldn't live by faith before I was saved, because I was dead in my sin. Jesus quickened me to life and gave me the gift of faith, that's was my experience being born again. Now I live by faith continuously.
But that is the opposite of "the just shall live BY faith." You are saying the just shall live without and before faith. Look at the definition :
by
bī/Submit
preposition
1.
identifying the agent performing an action.
2.
indicating the means of achieving something.
"malaria can be controlled by attacking the parasite"

What you are really saying is that you were saved without having to believe in Christ.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#37
As for order of regeneration and belief, not sure what every mans definition of regeneration is but there needs to be some amount or sort of regeneration to occur before believing because we're all born blind and deaf and you can't see what you can't see or hear what you can't hear. So at the very least, you have to believe there is some regeneration of blind eyes and deaf ears.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
#38
I don't understand why people have such a problem with foreknowledge and all-knowingness. I really don't.
Then again, they probably don't understand why I can't grasp some concepts that they facilely handle either.
Even if we took the view that God knows all thing and also the beginning onto the end of all things, so it would still make sense to say He knew who would repent and believe. I don't look at it that way, I'm just saying that it would still make sense if it was the case.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#39
But that is the opposite of "the just shall live BY faith." You are saying the just shall live without and before faith. Look at the definition :
by
bī/Submit
preposition
1.
identifying the agent performing an action.
2.
indicating the means of achieving something.
"malaria can be controlled by attacking the parasite"

What you are really saying is that you were saved without having to believe in Christ.
Do you think your faith/trust sprang from within you and was your doing? (That's a question.)
Saved by the kindness/grace of God through trust/faith, and that trust/faith not of yourself so no man can boast of his faith.
That is how the verse says it.
And that (faith) not of yourself...
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#40
As for order of regeneration and belief, not sure what every mans definition of regeneration is but there needs to be some amount or sort of regeneration to occur before believing because we're all born blind and deaf and you can't see what you can't see or hear what you can't hear. So at the very least, you have to believe there is some regeneration of blind eyes and deaf ears.
There is grace by the Holy Spirit to everyone (Jn 1:9) but not regeneration.