The 'ELECT' vs 'Free-Choice'

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
If you believe that to be true then you will love this verse:

Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

When was Christ slain? From the foundation of the world.
One of my go to verses.
Notice this is about those who take the Mark of the Beast.
Their names are not written in the Book of life.
And this doesn't happen until our future.
And these are the ONLY People not written in the Book of Life.
That means those in Hell right now have been BLOTTED out the Book of Life since the only names not ever written in the Book of Life are those going to take the Mark of the Beast.
So much for your Election doctrine.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

1. Calvinism is not true for God wants all people to be saved.

We have a choice in our salvation for God's kingdom is true love.

Calvinism goes against the nature of God that He is love, and good.

God does not choose who will be saved, and not saved, without their choice in the matter for His kingdom is true love, and He is not evil to condemn people who have no choice but to reject the truth seeing no other alternative.

You can program your computer to say I love you, but does your computer love you, and you can program your computer to say I hate you, and will you get mad and smash your computer.

An what criteria would God use to decide who is saved, and not saved without their choice when all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and there is none that does good, no, not one, and He is no respecter of persons, and what makes you to differ from another, and if you break the least of the law then you broke all the law, and there is no difference between a Jew and a Gentile.

God is good, and love, so why would He allow people to be born in the world that have no choice but to reject the truth in which they will be punished.

Why are the people that reject the truth being punished when they have no choice but to reject the truth.

God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world but it was a future event.

The prophets blood was slain from the foundation of the world but it was a future event.

The kingdom was prepared from the foundation of the world although Jesus told the disciples He goes away to prepare a place for them.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word became flesh, which is a plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and without that plan He would of not created anything that was created.

The saints being predestined to salvation does not mean God chooses who will be saved without their choice, but it means God had the plan to give salvation to mankind from the foundation of the world.

But this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation for the Spirit and bride say Come, and whosoever will let him take the water of life freely.

So this is saying anybody can have salvation.

Many are called but few are chosen.

Not many noble, not many mighty, not many wise after the flesh are called.

We did not choose God but He chose us.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

When God calls a person He will work in their life to bring them to the truth, and when they get to the truth that have to choose to go through the door for God's kingdom is true love, but they would of not got to the door of truth is He did no intervene in their life.

And the door of truth is to abstain from sin by the Spirit which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections.

Which the Lord knows them which are His having this seal that all who name the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Which not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter heaven for they were workers of iniquity not doing the will of the Father.

Which some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

The Bible says turn away from these people which they love the things of the world, the music, the movies, and entertainment, the alcohol, and the drugs, and the cigarettes, and the sexual pleasures, but believe they have salvation despite doing those things making an excuse that they are only human, they are not perfect, they cannot abstain from sin.

But there is no excuse and John said love not the world, or the things in the world, and if anyone does the love of the Father is not in them.

Calvinists seem like they fit the description of having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, for they believe they cannot fall so they enjoy sin, and believe they are right with God.

But the Bible says if you think you stand, take heed lest you fall, which they become relaxed in their walk with God falling short of being Christlike.
yeah that's pretty much how it goes

you got alot in there....I will read it later and answer better...it's about suppertime were I am
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,936
1,133
113
Oh come on. Really? Okay then. You’re can’t back up what you’re falsely accusing me of. I get it.

Hello? All the posts from EVERYONE are still here for others to read. So even if you lie about me, people will still figure it out that you're lying.

I'm just really surprised that you are dealing with this in such an ungodly way. You need to repent, seriously or God will have to correct you.


🥧
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
Hello? All the posts from EVERYONE are still here for others to read. So even if you lie about me, people will still figure it out that you're lying.

I'm just really surprised that you are dealing with this in such an ungodly way. You need to repent, seriously or God will have to correct you.


🥧
2 Timothy 2:15
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
One of my go to verses.
Notice this is about those who take the Mark of the Beast.
Their names are not written in the Book of life.
And this doesn't happen until our future.
And these are the ONLY People not written in the Book of Life.
That means those in Hell right now have been BLOTTED out the Book of Life since the only names not ever written in the Book of Life are those going to take the Mark of the Beast.
So much for your Election doctrine.
I think you have it wrong brother

The names who are not in the book of life are the ones who get expelled

Which means all life is in the book of life until that happens

As all life is his life.

Life from his life.

You don't expell life from life to begin with

And life from life wasn't expelled from the book of life to begin with in my view, his life in all life of mankind was put under the power of his death untill surrendering to the power of his life.

Maybe you should be thankful he holds the power of death as without it you wouldn't be able to live
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
Oy, sorry, but that does not really clarify the matter for me, since it did seem you made a distinction, saying some
who are not elect can still choose to believe, but now you have said those who choose to believe are the elect.
You don’t understand, @Magenta. You would not come to the Lord if you were not elect.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
I think you have it wrong brother

The names who are not in the book of life are the ones who get expelled

Which means all life is in the book of life until that happens

As all life is his life.

Life from his life.

You don't expell life from life to begin with

And life from life wasn't expelled from the book of life to begin with in my view, his life in all life of mankind was put under the power of his death untill surrendering to the power of his life.

Maybe you should be thankful he holds the power of death as without it you wouldn't be able to live
You need to read Revelation 13 those names are only for anyone who takes Mark of the Beast.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
One of my go to verses.
Notice this is about those who take the Mark of the Beast.
Their names are not written in the Book of life.
And this doesn't happen until our future.
And these are the ONLY People not written in the Book of Life.
That means those in Hell right now have been BLOTTED out the Book of Life since the only names not ever written in the Book of Life are those going to take the Mark of the Beast.
So much for your Election doctrine.
whose choice is it to send you a helper

Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
I did not introduce two different topics, since I am questioning you on what you said, when
you called having no choice in the matter of belief a crazy idea... and also hogwash.


What you said here: You are asking about some crazy idea that some can't choose salvation
because they are Elected and others can. I think everyone would agree this notion is hogwash.


But I am also curious about regeneration and its relationship to one's choice in salvation.

Some say regeneration is being born again, at which point a person is saved, and yet here you have said regeneration simply makes it possible to move toward Christ, which in my mind, means they have not yet been born again/saved because they are as yet devoid of faith. I could be wrong, and there is a lot of "ink" given to this particular aspect of salvation. So my question to you along this line of thought would be, does regeneration in your view equal being born again? Is it tied to circumcision of the heart, and if so, how, or is it the same thing, or does that happen later? And if it happens later, and it is not regeneration, what is entailed, in your view, in regeneration? Please accept my apologies for asking so many questions on this topic, as they do seem to all be inextricably linked and/or related.
You misunderstood my reply of hogwash. I was referring only to the part of one saving himself apart from election.

First, Regeneration is the same thing as being "Born from above" or "Being born anew". I shy away from the use of "Born Again" because some have a different understanding of that term. It simple terms: It is when the Hoy Spirit comes and secretly Regenerates an individual, who was previously "elected or chosen" by God before the foundation of the world. This same thing is under discussion in John 3.

Is this Regeneration, of the person tied to the circumcision of the heart? Yes. In the new birth, a person is given a new nature and the dead spirit within is jump started and lives again. This nature has a positive outlook upon the things of God and the enlivened spirit can discern God's Word. While this new nature is in it's infantile state, it will grow and be shaped by the Word of God. Hearing the Gospel message in it's effectual sense, leads one to Repentance and Belief in Christ Jesus.

Therefore, in the technical sense, Regeneration is not Salvation. It provides the needed changes in order for one to hear and see spiritual things. It in no way eliminates the need for the Regenerated person to come to Christ as their Lord and Savior

Through the process of ongoing Sanctification, the believer will continue to mature spiritually, throughout their life.

No need to apologize. Nothing wrong with questions. It's how we learn.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
You need to read Revelation 13 those names are only for anyone who takes Mark of the Beast.
again where did knowledge come from in the first place and is there any possibility you can see they surrendered to the wrong will not out of choice but out of not surrendering to the right choice they already had.

Or can you see surrendering and choice as different meaning
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
The Elect will always come to Jesus when they hear the Gospel.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
I dunno.....

God did not seem to think that Noah was totally depraved...
That's because he was already in a saved position with God.

Also the idea of "Total Depravity", is a bad term. No one is totally depraved. We are capable of doing somethings that would be considered good. However, we are spiritually depraved. Meaning, apart from God's Regenerative work in our life, we would never clearly discern Biblical Truth because our spirits are "dead in trespasses and sins" and our old nature is at enmity with God.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
That's because he was already in a saved position with God.

Also the idea of "Total Depravity", is a bad term. No one is totally depraved. We are capable of doing somethings that would be considered good. However, we are spiritually depraved. Meaning, apart from God's Regenerative work in our life, we would never clearly discern Biblical Truth because our spirits are "dead in trespasses and sins" and our old nature is at enmity with God.
I agree totally depravity is delusional but be careful she's layed down rules not to talk about fake Calvinist.

She may just scratch you 😋
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
Yes well it's the life of his life in all men.

How can there not be any life in men who are under the power of death in his life that is in all men yet to be saved
I'm sorry, you have to many pronouns in your sentence and I can't tell whom we are talking about.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
One of my go to verses.
Notice this is about those who take the Mark of the Beast.
Their names are not written in the Book of life.
And this doesn't happen until our future.
And these are the ONLY People not written in the Book of Life.
That means those in Hell right now have been BLOTTED out the Book of Life since the only names not ever written in the Book of Life are those going to take the Mark of the Beast.
So much for your Election doctrine.
All I can say about that is: That makes no sense at all. Really, I am not trying to be ugly here but that makes no sense.

To begin with, the ones in Hell right now, were never in the Book of Life.