The End Times: Who is the Beast and the Antichrist?

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seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
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#82
1 Peter 5:13

The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.”

When Peter referred to “the church that is at Babylon”, was he referring to the literal city of Babylon or to some other city?

Let us follow Peter’s whereabouts, as are recorded in scripture, and let us see if we can properly answer this question.

Before Christ's ascension back to heaven, he commanded his disciples "that they should not depart FROM JERUSALEM, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me" (Acts 1:4). Of course, Peter obeyed such a command, and he was numbered among those who were in the upper room praying (Acts 1:15) IN JERUSALEM.

On the day of Pentecost, we see Peter preaching IN JERUSALEM (Acts 2:14).

We next find Peter ministering to the lame man at the temple IN JERUSALEM (Acts 3:1-11), and then Peter continued to preach to the people IN JERUSALEM (Acts 3:12-26).

As a result of said preaching, Peter was imprisoned IN JERUSALEM (Acts 4:1-6), preached to his captors IN JERUSALEM (Acts 4:8-12) and was eventually set free, only to return to his own company (Acts 4:23) IN JERUSALEM.

We then find Peter IN JERUSALEM where believers brought the monies of things sold and laid them down at the apostles' feet (Acts 4:34-5:11).

Next, we find "multitudes out of the cities round about unto JERUSALEM, bringing sick folks" hoping "that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them" (Acts 5:15:16).

Again, we see Peter getting arrested and "put in the common prison" (Acts 5:19) only to be set free by an angel of the Lord so that he might "speak in the temple" IN JERUSALEM" to the people all the words of this life" (Acts 5:20).

Of course, when hauled again before his captors, Peter answered the following charge:

Acts 5:28-29

"Saying, Did we not straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled JERUSALEM with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."

Yes, Peter filled JERUSALEM with his doctrine because JERUSALEM is the only place that he had been thus far since Christ's ascension back to the Father in heaven.

Peter did begin to travel, however, and we next find him in Samaria:

Acts 8:14-16

"Now when the apostles WHICH WERE AT JERUSALEM heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus)."

Yes, Peter travelled FROM JERUSALEM to Samaria.

We next find Peter at Lydda (Acts 9:32), which I understand to be about 32 miles from Jerusalem, and "nigh to Joppa" (Acts 9:38), or about 5 miles east of Joppa. Peter then "tarried many days in Joppa" (Acts 9:43) until the time came that men were sent unto him from Cornelius, who dwelt in Caesarea (Acts 10:1), and Peter went away "from Joppa" (Acts 10:23), and he met with Cornelius in Caesarea (Acts 10:24).

Of course, after his encounter with Cornelius, Peter returned "TO JERUSALEM" (Acts 11:2) and related the events of what transpired between him and Cornelius to the Jews gathered there (Acts 11:2-18).

We next find Peter imprisoned again IN JERUSALEM (Acts 12:1-11), only to be set free by an angel once more.

Where did Peter go when he was set free?

He went "to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark" (Acts 12:12), and, in all probability, that house was IN JERUSALEM.

In Peter's final mention in the book of Acts, we find him IN JERUSALEM (Acts 15:2) as one of the speakers (Acts 15:7) in the council being held there.

But wait, there is more.

We also know that Paul travelled TO JERUSALEM to see Peter (Galatians 1:18), and then travelled again TO JERUSALEM to see Peter many years thereafter (Galatians 2:1-10).

Paul also mentioned how that Peter travelled at some point in time to Antioch (Galatians 2:11), and he also mentioned Cephas (Peter - John 1:42) to the saints at Corinth (I Corinthians 1:12, 3:22, 9:5, 15:5).

With these Biblical truths in mind, and seeing how there is not even the slightest of hints in scripture that Peter was ever in the literal city of Babylon, unless a safe falls out of an upper story window and hits me squarely on top of my head, I will go with the rather safe assumption that when Peter was writing from "Babylon,” he was, in all probability, writing FROM JERUSALEM.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
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#83
I think this is a very important topic since the end times and the revealing of the beast is fast approaching with a lot of false prophecy is coming out of the woodwork lately to try to distract us from the real deal. I don't think we should be uninformed about this. So I'm asking everyone: Who do you think is the beast, the antichrist and Babylon? Please post the Bible verses that brought you to that belief.
Well, if we we are all hearing from the holy spirit we would be uniform (SMILE). But alas, we have hands trying to be feet, it might just not be their calling, but they like giving it the ole college try.

So the Beast(s) is a pretty basic understanding, it represents a man/nation/demon who has Animal like power to domineer over nation/peoples. Like a Lion king who rules over a pride etc. Daniel was told of Five Beasts (if one understands the Little Horn man is a Beast also). John looking back in time saw 7 Beasts, adding in Assyria and Egypt. In Rev. 12, 13 and 17 we can see all three end time Beasts, two are Demons. The CROWNS are the key.

In Rev. 12 the Dragon (Satan) is over the whole world, but only the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR) is being spoken about, they all come out of the great sea. So, the 7 are those 7 who were over Israel, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the coming Anti-Christ. The 7 is where the crowns are at via Satan because as Luke 4 tells us he is over every kingdom on this earth.

In Revelation 13 the Anti-Christ/Little Horn Beast is one of the 7 Heads and thus he has his crowns on the 10 horns (the number 10 = Completion, thus the E.U. Reunited Completely means all the nations that make up the E.U., do not wait on "10 nations"). In Rev. 17:12 we see the 10 (E.U.) freely give their power over to the Beast, meaning this last Beast is elected (by the E.U. Parliament), he only goes forth conquering the MSR as Dan. 11:40-43 shows us, in the middle of the 70th week.

In Rev. 17 we see a very complex problem most no one can grasp, the Scarlet Colored Beast is not Satan, he is a Demon named Apollyon that Satan placed over the MSR long ago, he tried to drive Israel into the Red Sea, he toted off the 10 tribes (no tribes are lost and never were), he carried Israel to Babylon, he killed 60-90 K via Antiochus he destroyed Jerusalem via Rome. Then God locked him up in the bottomless pit for the duration of the church age, thus HE WAS.........IS NOT..........YET IS. He will be let out at the 1st Woe. If one notices, the Scarlet Beast has NO CROWNS on the Heads or Horns, thus he is not a king of this world, that is why he was/will be of the Seven (7) but is an 8th KING, (his Kingdom is the Bottomless Pit, its not o this earth). He will be over the Anti-Christ, assigned the MSR area by Satan, who has all the crowns on all the heads, the A.C. will have crowns on the 10 Horns. Apollyon the Scarlet Beast is under Satan on this earth, he can't have any crowns.
 
Feb 21, 2016
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#84
The great city mirrors New Jerusalem.It's satans kingdom.It's within the same way New Jerusalem is within.
Was Jesus crucified on a Roman altar?Might as well be catholic then since the blood is there.His blood was shed on an altar that was created before us.
The sun(Spirit),
water(moon)
and the earth(blood) is the altar.

2 Timothy 1:8-9
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

John 3:16
For God so loved the world
,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

If you read this out loud,you are releasing the treasures from his store house.

With every exhale you are emptying his storehouse,and every inhale he is refilling his store house,so you can release his treasures from his store house to those who will receive it.This is what's happening everytime you are testifying of Jesus.We are his witnesses.

Now what you should do is set sail in Noahs Ark,grab Peters hand and pull him up from the water and into the Ark before he drowns.
That is your treasure.Every Peter you pull out and into the Ark is your treasure.


Matthew 6:20
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.

Revelation 3:18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
 

Underwhosewings

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2023
1,318
670
113
Australia
#85
From Rev chapter 6 to chapter 19 we have the events on earth during the 7 year period before the Lord Jesus Christ returns to earth.

Rev 6 to 10 give events of the first 3 1/2 years & Rev chapters 11-19 the events of the second 3 1/2 years.

The second 3 1/2 years is referred to as:

* 42 months (Rev 11:2; 13:5
*1260 days (Rev 11:3
* Time = 1 year
times = 2 years
half a time = 6 months (Rev 12:14
* in Daniel 7:25 this period of 3 1/2 years is referred to as “a time, and times and the dividing of time.”

This is the period when the beast (Rev 13:1) or Antichrist (1 John 2:18) or the prince that shall come (Daniel 9:26) shall reign on the earth.

He is the man of sin who exalts himself above all that is called God and sits in the temple of God in Jerusalem to be worshiped as God. (2 Thess 2:3-4)

The whole 7 year period covered in Rev 6 to 19 is seen in Daniel 9:27.
There it is called a week, that is, a week of years which is 7 years. ( in Hebrew a week of days is 7 days and a week of years is 7 years. Lev 25:8)
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,807
845
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#86
l think the fourth beast in daniel will be a one world gov. because the angel reveals that this beast will differ from the others by trampling the whole earth etc.
It is the same beast of revelation (7 heads, 10 horns)
An image (Greek translation is icon) of a global government (beast), that is given the breath of life and the ability to speak, what could it be?
Mankinds greatest effort to give life to anything is artificial intellegence, in my opinion.
It seems like it would be virtually impossible to create one image that encompasses a global entity.
All the images on the www of a global kingdom combined with a superintellegence that has been given conciousness and the ability to speak great things seems like a good candidate.
More likely than a talking statue, or painting etc., which has crossed my mind in the past.
Whatever it will be was either dead or in an inanimate state, and it couldn't speak before being transformed.
John described it as having eyes like a human.
So not a human, but having eyes that appear humanlike.
The implication is that John perceives something that has a humanlike form but he beleives that its not really human, even though they did a good job on the eyes.
That's a good description of the latest robot designs.
This living image will claim to be God.
I don't think that the entire world has ever worshipped any one thing at the same time.
A couple of things that come to mind are money and the www, or rather the imagery and entertainment it gives access to.
Something else of interest to me is that one heads of the beast is dealt a mortal wound and then somehow miraculously healed.
This causes the population of the world to be in awe and compelled to follow this beast.
This healing must be very remarkable indeed.
What deception could be so well designed as to fool the elect of God, (if it were possible)?
What if this healing is actually a ressurrection?
What if AI figures out a method that can translate a human intellect into an eletronic algorithim?
God said "it is appointed once for man to die"
What if satan asks " did god really say you have to die"?
"You can continue to exist for millenia in my paradise".
"You will be as god"!
How many would be able to resist such a temptation?
To see friends and family members living in a metaverse, a cyberworld long after they would have been dead, and then choose to die when the time comes instead of joining the crowd.
That's a lie capable of fooling almost anyone.
I believe there's a scripture that says something like "there will come a time when a man will seek death and won't be able to find it"
Practically speaking, how could that happen?
Like a zombie on the walking dead?
Or maybe someone who's consciousness is under complete control of a demonic superintellegence, that has real time access to all the data containing everything that they have ever searched, scrolled, liked, followed, and deleted, everything that their's and any other phone's tablet's etc. camera and mic has recorded since they have been on the earth.
The choice to commit suicide could even be denied.
A man could seek death and not be able to find it.
God included information in his word about the past and the future.
From the beginning through the end of this world and the beginning of the next.
It's included because its integral and transformative.
I hope this is helpful for someone.
Just my thoughts, not my conclusions on the subject
The most interesting subject existing.
The image of the beast is given the power to speak by the false prophet.

"The power to speak" is a very interesting clause.

I do agree with what you wrote, it's certainly looking that way.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#87
Who do you think is the beast, the antichrist and Babylon? Please post the Bible verses that brought you to that belief.
Not sure if anyone but God knows yet. He (Antichrist) will be revealed to whom He needs to be revealed to when He comes. Some Jews will probably initially think He is the Messiah. He starts out making a peace treaty. He breaks it Mid-Trib and they (Jews) will flee into the wilderness.

As you know, most of us intend on being in Heaven and attending a wedding at this time. This may account for the lack of interest that you speak of. Most of us consider the Trib to be the time of Jacob's (Jews) Trouble.
 
Feb 21, 2016
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#88
Nothing can mirror the new Jerusalem to come where the Lord will dwell within, never.
What I meant by mirror is that the great city,Mystery Babylon is spiritual the same way New Jerusalem is.their merchants are not actual merchants sailing in ships selling goods in the same way Jesus is telling you to buy actual physical gold from him in Rev 3:19.

A port is a ship resting place.The word of God is a resting place.And this is what I meant by saying you should set sail in Noah's Ark.Because our feet is in the image of Noahs Ark.
10 toes for the commandments and two big toes for the covenants.This is how you walk on water.By standing for/in God.By being rooted in his word.He wants you to stand.By doing so,you are standing on the water.
A lot of times in scripture the water represents the people.less of of them stand above the water.

He wants you to be fishers of men.When the Disciples went out fishing and Jesus stood on the shore and told them to cast out their nets on the right side of the boat,it mirrors that Jesus is on the (right side/blood) of God.
All who believe and receive his gift on the cross are caught by fishers of men.
Merchants ships!

But here's more of that spiritual truth.Where the physical,and even the spiritual, sea meets the land,there is a Ark of the Covenant.
The blood is the earth since Jesus died for our sins.The water of course is the water.And in the middle is the spirit.the mercy seat.
Jesus of course is standing on the sea shore telling his Disciples where to throw the net.These Disciple follow God wherever he goes.
What happen after that?the fishers of men took what they caught and brought it to the sea shore to Jesus.
Merchants!

Jeremiah 33:22
As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

Hebrews 11:12
Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.


Matthew 6:19-21
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

The name of the game right now is to save souls.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
573
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#89
21Then a mighty angel picked up a stone the size of a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying:
“With such violence
the great city of Babylon will be cast down,
never to be seen again.

this looks like utterly destroyed to me.
Well, then I would advise you to look again.

In the book of Revelation, "Babylon the great" is compared to literal Babylon.

Here is the comparison in the verse that you cited:

Jeremiah 51:60-64

"So Jeremiah wrote in a book all the evil that should come upon Babylon, even all these words that are written against Babylon. And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words; Then shalt thou say, O LORD, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever. And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates: And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah."

Compared to:

Revelation 18:21

"And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

Here is a question that you ought to ask yourself:

How was literal Babylon made desolate forever, or how did it sink, after a stone was bound to it, that it should never again rise from the evil that God brought upon it?

Has literal Babylon ever been inhabited again?

Yes, of course, it has been, and so will "Babylon the great" be inhabited again.

What is being destroyed is the old rebellious form of government which will be replaced by Christ's righteous rule at his return.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
573
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#90
The book of Revelation is the last or 66th book of the Bible, and, in my estimation, it would be insane to even study it without seriously considering the other 65 books of the Bible which precede it.

There are 404 verses of scripture in the book of Revelation, and it has been estimated that 278 of them contain references or allusions, whether direct or indirect, to verses of scripture which precede them in the Old Testament.

Furthermore, some of the estimated 278 verses contain more than one reference or allusion to the Old Testament. With such being the case, it has been estimated that there are as many as 505 references or allusions to the Old Testament contained within the 404 verses of scripture in the book of Revelation.

Seeing how these references or allusions to Old Testament passages of scripture outnumber the total number of verses of scripture in the book of Revelation, it is my rational belief that we can easily understand what the book of Revelation is talking about if we simply allow the Bible to be its own interpreter.

In other words, although reading and understanding the book of Revelation can initially seem rather daunting in that it employs much imagery and is very cryptic in nature, if we know where to look elsewhere in scripture, then the imagery is explained to us plainly, and we can understand what we are reading.

Additionally, we are not only limited to the use of Old Testament references when it comes to understanding what was prophesied in the book of Revelation because there are many instances within the book of Revelation itself where the angel with whom John is speaking plainly gives the interpretation of his vision to him.

With this introduction behind us, let us now examine how this “woman” or “whore” is arrayed in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 17:1-5

“And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”

These New Testament references as to how this "woman was arrayed" have deep significance if one understands what was written in the Old Testament, and especially in regard to the high priest and how he was arrayed.

Turning to the book of Exodus, we read:

Exodus 28:1-8

"And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons. And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise-hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. It shall have the two shoulder-pieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen."

The high priest's garments contained the following:

gold

blue

purple

scarlet

fine twined linen

Now, compare how the high priest was arrayed to how this "woman was arrayed" in the book of Revelation:

Revelation 17:4

"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls..."

Both the high priest and "the woman" share the following in their “array” or attire:

gold

purple

scarlet

At first glance, it seems as if this "woman" is missing both the blue and the linen, but the linen can be found in a further description of this "woman" in the next or 18th chapter of the book of Revelation.

Revelation 18:15-16

"The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!"

Well, there is the "fine linen", but we are still missing the blue...and for good reason.

Please allow me to explain.

Throughout the Old Testament, there were many types given.

In other words, certain things were types or representations of other things, and the colors that we are presently examining were certainly numbered among the same.

Regarding the significance of the blue in scripture, we read:

Numbers 15:37-40

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a-whoring: That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.”

Through Moses, God instructed the children of Israel to put "a ribband of blue,” or a twisted thread of blue, upon the fringe of the border of their garments. This "ribband of blue" was placed there so they would "remember all the commandments of the LORD and do them" and not "go a-whoring" after other gods.

With such in mind, it is extremely significant that the only color that is missing from the array of this woman in the book of Revelation is blue.

In other words, no matter how religiously arrayed this woman is, her distinguishing feature is that she does not "keep the commandments of God" (which is exactly what the missing blue represents) and has therefore "gone a-whoring".

This woman is, after all, a “great whore” (Revelation 17:1), or a “whore” (Revelation 17:15-16), or "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS" (Revelation 17:5).

Here is where it gets really interesting.

This same exact woman is also described in Revelation chapter 12, and she has "a remnant" that is described there as well.

Revelation 12:17

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Did you catch that?

Even though most of those who comprise the woman have no blue in their array or attire in that they do not "keep the commandments of God,” "the remnant" of this woman, or the Jews who will be saved in the last days, do have blue in their array or attire in that they "keep the commandments of God.”

Again, it is this "keeping of the commandments of God" that distinguishes "the remnant" from "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS.”

Please continue reading in my next post.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
573
113
#91
This woman of Revelation chapter 17 is also contrasted with the Old Testament high priest in another manner.

Revelation 17:5

"And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

In stark contrast to what this woman has written upon her forehead, the Old Testament high priest bore the following inscription upon his own forehead:

Exodus 28:36-38

"And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD."

Whereas the high priest bore the inscription of "HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD" which was fastened to his mitre by "a blue lace" (another reference to keeping the commandments of God) and worn "always upon his forehead", this woman from Revelation chapter 17 bears the inscription of “THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5) upon her forehead.

This is not the first time in scripture that God likened Israel’s “forehead” to that of a “whore” or “harlot.”

Jeremiah 3:1-3

“They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD. Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.”

Whoever this woman is, she is not only a “great whore” (Revelation 17:1), or a “whore” (Revelation 17:15-16), but also “THE MOTHER” or progenitor “OF HARLOTS.”

In other words, all other “harlots” proceeded forth from her.

Of course, for those of us who care about what the Bible teaches, the original “whore” in scripture was the nation of Israel.

Anyhow, the contrast between the Old Testament high priest and this “woman” is what is being described in these verses, and, again, it all points directly towards the “great city” (Revelation 17:18) of JERUSALEM.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#92
Well, then I would advise you to look again.

In the book of Revelation, "Babylon the great" is compared to literal Babylon.

Here is the comparison in the verse that you cited:

Jeremiah 51:60-64

"So Jeremiah wrote in a book all the evil that should come upon Babylon, even all these words that are written against Babylon. And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words; Then shalt thou say, O LORD, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever. And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates: And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah."

Compared to:

Revelation 18:21

"And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

Here is a question that you ought to ask yourself:

How was literal Babylon made desolate forever, or how did it sink, after a stone was bound to it, that it should never again rise from the evil that God brought upon it?

Has literal Babylon ever been inhabited again?

Yes, of course, it has been, and so will "Babylon the great" be inhabited again.

What is being destroyed is the old rebellious form of government which will be replaced by Christ's righteous rule at his return.


Wrong. Babylon the great will never be inhabited again.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying,
Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

- Revelation 18:4-24 (KJV)
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
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#93
Wrong. Babylon the great will never be inhabited again.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

- Revelation 18:4-24 (KJV)
Way to ignore the comparison.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
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#94
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
I am still waiting for you to show us what "great city" in scripture is guilty of the blood of the prophets other than Jerusalem.

I will not hold my breath while waiting because we both know that you have nothing.
 

selahsays

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#95
I am still waiting for you to show us what "great city" in scripture is guilty of the blood of the prophets other than Jerusalem.

I will not hold my breath while waiting because we both know that you have nothing.
 

selahsays

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#96
The great city of Babylon is a one-world political/religious system. Satan, the AC, when he comes, will set himself up in Jerusalem claiming to be God. And the whole world will whore after him, being deceived, believing he is the true Jesus. This one-world system is the “city.” Got it, Dusty?
 

selahsays

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#97
@seekingthemindofChrist
Look around the world today. Do you like what you see? Do you see the things being affected by this one-worldism that is spreading all over the world? It’s surely affecting Christianity. Do you see that? Jesus is being “canceled“ out! It’s now becoming a man-made one-world religion, an ecumenical mess! This is a wicked system, and God hates it.
 

selahsays

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#98
@seekingthemindofChrist

And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

- Revelation 17:1-5 (KJV)
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#99
Way to ignore the comparison.
I am still waiting for you to show us what "great city" in scripture is guilty of the blood of the prophets other than Jerusalem.

I will not hold my breath while waiting because we both know that you have nothing.
Comparison is just that, literary device of illustration, and just because Israel is like Palestine does not make it Palestine. Can you ignore the blood of Arab saints that were beheaded, on camera, for all the world's viewing pleasure because they would not denounce Christ and confess a false god?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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Ugh... lay off the bath salts; I didn't reject anything. I said "I don't get it."
By not accepting a clear and simple fact, you are in essence rejecting it!

And it is NOT "bath salts"!

The identity of Babylon as the city of Jerusalem, is critical truth for the last days, and will also have a bearing on the interpretation you apply to the rest of The Revelation of Jesus Christ!