The Error of KJV-Onlyism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

jamessb

Active member
#3,061
Feb 10, 2024
738
122
43
Santa Fe NM
#3,061
Bible_Highlighter said:
Would somebody please post this for Jamessb to see? He has ignored my posts. He does not appear to believe the word “Christ” is removed in the Bible (KJV).

Here it is a snapshot from my 101 Reasons for the King James Bible being the Pure Word of God:

View attachment 261453
Click to expand...
I expected this kind of propaganda from Bible Highlighter, so I did my own research (on BibleGateway). Here are the results...

NIV: Lord Jesus => 179 times <=
Jesus Christ => 219 times <=
Lord Jesus Christ => 183 times <=

KJV: Lord Jesus => 181 times <=
Jesus Christ => 258 times <=
Lord Jesus Christ => 106 times <=

If you total these figures, you will find that the NIV mentions these terms 581 times; the KJV mentions them 539 times. Therefore (according to Highlighter's absurd logic), the NIV is "holier" by 42! :LOL:
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#3,062
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
#3,062
Bible_Highlighter said:
The King James Bible is the most printed book in the world and has caused great revivals
Click to expand...
on that note it's the Geneva translation, not the kjv, that was the Bible of the reformation, and the pilgrims.

but this doesn't mean anything. it is the Spirit of God who revives. no one can "plan a revival for next wednesday" - - that's deception!
 
J

jamessb

Active member
#3,063
Feb 10, 2024
738
122
43
Santa Fe NM
#3,063
posthuman said:
apparently the 1611 one, tho no one uses it,
"because arbitrary numerology"

lol


it's a joke, relax.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, it is not a joke to some people. They are actually dead serious!

Take a look at the post immediately above this one that demonstrates that KJV kind of madness.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#3,064
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,785
113
#3,064
Bible_Highlighter said:
Would somebody please post this for Jamessb to see? He has ignored my posts. He does not appear to believe the word “Christ” is removed in the Bible (KJV).

Here it is a snapshot from my 101 Reasons for the King James Bible being the Pure Word of God:

View attachment 261453
Click to expand...
You state directly that "The KJB exalts Jesus Christ, unlike most Modern Bibles."

So by your logic, naming "Jesus Christ" between 103 and 105 times (but not 119 times) is NOT "exalting Jesus Christ"...

and naming "Lord Jesus" between 132 and 141 times (but not 196 times) is NOT "exalting Jesus Christ"...

and naming "Lord Jesus Christ" between 60 and 63 times (but not 84 times) is NOT "exalting Jesus Christ".


...


Think carefully on what you are claiming.
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#3,065
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
#3,065
jamessb said:
I expected this kind of propaganda from Bible Highlighter, so I did my own research (on BibleGateway). Here are the results...

NIV: Lord Jesus => 179 times <=
Jesus Christ => 219 times <=
Lord Jesus Christ => 183 times <=

KJV: Lord Jesus => 181 times <=
Jesus Christ => 258 times <=
Lord Jesus Christ => 106 times <=

If you total these figures, you will find that the NIV mentions these terms 581 times; the KJV mentions them 539 times. Therefore (according to Highlighter's absurd logic), the NIV is "holier" by 42! :LOL:
Click to expand...
You are either being deceptive or you did not understand what was written.

I also did a search at BibleGateWay for “Lord Jesus” and the number for 179 is not an exact match to those precise words (“Lord Jesus”). Meaning, it is counting “Lord” separately and “Jesus” separately. BlueLetterBible gives you the exact phrase “Lord Jesus” and its proper number and you can count it out. The number is accurate to the NIV they have on record.
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#3,066
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
#3,066
Dino246 said:
You state directly that "The KJB exalts Jesus Christ, unlike most Modern Bibles."

So by your logic, naming "Jesus Christ" between 103 and 105 times (but not 119 times) is NOT "exalting Jesus Christ"...

and naming "Lord Jesus" between 132 and 141 times (but not 196 times) is NOT "exalting Jesus Christ"...

and naming "Lord Jesus Christ" between 60 and 63 times (but not 84 times) is NOT "exalting Jesus Christ".


...


Think carefully on what you are claiming.
Click to expand...
The claim is stating that the Modern Translations do not exalt Jesus on the same level as the KJV. That is what is being stated. You have fallen into the trap before of playing the game of wooden literalism when it comes to the English language.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#3,067
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,785
113
#3,067
Bible_Highlighter said:
The claim is stating that the Modern Translations do not exalt Jesus on the same level as the KJV. That is what is being stated. You have fallen into the trap before of playing the game of wooden literalism when it comes to the English language.
Click to expand...
Is 103 to 105 “not on the same level” as 119? Is there any other ridiculous sidestepping you want to offer before you are labelled a hypocrite?
 
J

jamessb

Active member
#3,068
Feb 10, 2024
738
122
43
Santa Fe NM
#3,068
Listen, it is impossible to reason with someone such as Bible_Highlighter. He is so set in his ways that no amount of reasoning will get him to see the truth. Before I put him on "ignore" (which has given me considerable peace) I tried to explain things to him but he refused to consider any ideas but his own. This counting of certain English phrases in translation is idiotic! Is there really any sane person who thinks that one Bible has "Jesus Christ" and another has "Jesus the Christ" or "Lord Jesus" or some other variation of His name, that proves they are distorting the truth??? That is insanity!!!

Anyone who knows the smallest amount about translation of ancient languages (from differing manuscript sources) into English realizes that this argument is clearly an attempt to make the conclusion fit the premise. I feel sorry for Bible_Highlighter and other people like him who have obviously fixed on an idea to make themselves look like some kind of authority. That is exactly the attitude of the Pharisees, who were so knowledgeable about the Bible that they missed Jesus Christ!
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#3,069
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
#3,069
Bible_Highlighter said:
You are either being deceptive or you did not understand what was written.

I also did a search at BibleGateWay for “Lord Jesus” and the number for 179 is not an exact match to those precise words (“Lord Jesus”). Meaning, it is counting “Lord” separately and “Jesus” separately. BlueLetterBible gives you the exact phrase “Lord Jesus” and its proper number and you can count it out. The number is accurate to the NIV they have on record.
Click to expand...
search just for "Jesus" and you get...

  • kjv - 942
  • niv - 1,310
  • esv - 1,058
  • nasb - 1,000
  • nlt - 1,477
  • amp - 1,239
  • gnv - 967
  • nkjv - 1,043
  • wyc - 1,031

hmmmm...... 🤔

draw your own conclusions.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#3,071
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,785
113
#3,071
Nehemiah6 said:
Correction. "Jesus" occurs 983 times in 942 verses in the KJV. It is not simply the occurrence of the name that is critical. There are other factors.
Click to expand...
But… but … but …

“983 just isn’t on the same level as 1,000!”

;)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#3,072
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
#3,072
jamessb said:
Listen, it is impossible to reason with someone such as Bible_Highlighter. He is so set in his ways that no amount of reasoning will get him to see the truth. Before I put him on "ignore" (which has given me considerable peace) I tried to explain things to him but he refused to consider any ideas but his own. This counting of certain English phrases in translation is idiotic! Is there really any sane person who thinks that one Bible has "Jesus Christ" and another has "Jesus the Christ" or "Lord Jesus" or some other variation of His name, that proves they are distorting the truth??? That is insanity!!!
Click to expand...
didn't i say from. the beginning i had learned to consider it more fruitful to make lighthearted jokes than throw all my energy tearing down kjv-onlyism-arguments? :p

i do think there are fruitful conversations to be had about Pascha vs easter tho. seeing the circumstances under which the word originated, how narrowly confined its use is, how it is unrelated to the actual feast on which Christ rose, the probabilities of its etymology... this path leads one (or at least led me) to a much greater appreciation of the actual testimony of Christ all over scripture, how that there is no 'Jewish scripture vs Christian scripture' but one scripture, how valuable Leviticus is even tho we aren't under the Law...

of course to appreciate how Christ is magnified in Pesach and diminished by easter, one has to set aside doggedly defending the word 'because it appears in kjv' so there is the thread-relevant, ulterior motive...
but my suggestion bro, going forward, is try to focus on glorifying God rather than focus on 'defeating' someone. not saying i am good at that or that i always remember to, but, it's good advice, and also good advice our brother Paul gave - if at all possible, be at peace with all men. Mssr Highlighter isn't our enemy, he's our brother.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#3,073
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
#3,073
Nehemiah6 said:
Correction. "Jesus" occurs 983 times in 942 verses in the KJV. It is not simply the occurrence of the name that is critical. There are other factors.
Click to expand...
thanks!

i should search better.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#3,074
Jul 3, 2015
60,146
29,456
113
#3,074
Nehemiah6 said:
Correction. "Jesus" occurs 983 times in 942 verses in the KJV. It is not simply the occurrence of the name that is critical. There are other factors.
Click to expand...
Oh. So now you do count words? Weird. I thought you said that was for morons.

Nehemiah6 said:
... nobody would sit down and start counting the words in the NT (other than a moron).
Click to expand...
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#3,075
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
#3,075
Nehemiah6 said:
It is not simply the occurrence of the name that is critical. There are other factors.
Click to expand...
for myself i think the most critical factor is, "is this literally what the best manuscript evidence known to us says?"
i want to avoid interpretation in translation, and be able to read the closest thing to the original in the original language i can, without being myself able to actually read Greek and Hebrew. so i abhor versions like the nlt that take liberties with the text instead of being as close to the original words as possible.
the Bible calls it equally evil to add to the word as to take away from it.

i'll repeat what J. Vernon Mcgee used to say about the topic - the kjv isn't the best translation, but it's the best translation we've got.

 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#3,077
Jul 3, 2015
60,146
29,456
113
#3,077
Nehemiah6 said:
No. I do not count words. I made a correction to another post counting words. So it was moronic for you to post this.
Click to expand...
Ah. So number of words is not important, but you must make a correction about the number of
specific words despite the fact that number of words is not important? Yeah. Sounds moronic.
And contradictory. But, not surprising coming from you.
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#3,078
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
#3,078
Dino246 said:
Is 103 to 105 “not on the same level” as 119? Is there any other ridiculous sidestepping you want to offer before you are labelled a hypocrite?
Click to expand...
And you are ignoring the other ones. We see a consistent theme. 119 to 105 is a big deal when you look at the other occurrences that are worse (196 KJV vs. 141) (84 vs. 64). The point here is that if there was corruption in your Bible line (which I believe there is because Vaticanus and Sinaiticus have corrections on them and they disagree with each other in 3,000 places), then this demonstrates that you're on the wrong side. Again, there are corrupt doctrines in Modern Bibles, and the removal of 1 John 5:7 (Which is hidden in Modern Bibles with the moving of words from 1 John 5:8), and so obviously the number count is not obviously the only reason here. We look at all the reasons as a whole and not just one reason alone as you guys are trying to make it out to be. In a murder case, they don't look at one piece of evidence alone if they have other evidences. I was also replying to Jamessb‘s point in that he did not think the Jesus’ name was removed by way of comparison between the KJV vs. the Modern Bibles.
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#3,079
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
#3,079
Dino246 said:
But… but … but …

“983 just isn’t on the same level as 1,000!”

;)
Click to expand...
Again, if this was the only reason, I would be out having fun with some kind of hobbie, but the point here is that we see a theme in the various reasons when we compare the KJV vs. the Modern Bibles. It's always bad news when we look at the Modern Bibles via by comparison to the KJV. This point is only one small link in a larger chain of evidences.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.