The Faith We Hold.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 9, 2011

No Scott, i did not. You don't KNOW (understand) James 2: 24, you just know what your church says it teaches. which is wrong.

You claim I can work and do these sacraments Or some of them, (which proves I have faith, at least some, which is not "dead faith") and still not make it to heaven. James said those who do NO WORKS, have NO FAITH. thus have NO SALVATION. Your church does not teach this as whole, they teach we can have some works and still not make it.

It is you who are in error my friend. And I pray you come to truth soon.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 9, 2011

wisdomseeker said:

Who else would I chose?

So others can find what I found

My Hope is an eternity with God, My Hope is eternal life, Which God, Who can not lie, promised before time began. My Hope is to recieve the promises of God, based on his love, and his offer of salvation based on his son.

wisdomseeker · Dec 9, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

Whats heaven going to be like

Explain this verse for me,
Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands.
And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In Jesus name

eternally-gratefull · Dec 9, 2011

wisdomseeker said:

Whats heaven going to be like

Explain this verse for me,
Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands.
And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In Jesus name

I can't explain what heaven is going to be like. My finite mind can not comprehend it.

Forest · Dec 9, 2011

shroom2 said:

When I was but a natural man I had no desire to choose God. I choose him after he choose me. We love him because he first loved us, his elect. Jacob not Easu.

Forest · Dec 9, 2011

wisdomseeker said:

Expl;ain it yourself!

Forest · Dec 9, 2011

wisdomseeker said:

I understand what your ploy is now, you plan on telling those who can not explain heaven that they are not born again. What a rediculas scheme, because you do not understand what the Kingdom of God is yourself. The kingdom of God is his church set up when he was upon the earth. Matt 16:28, There be some standing here, which will not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom his church.

OldOrthodoxChristian · Dec 9, 2011

eternally-gratefull;599318 said:

Find one Christian Father from the first century AD who says what you say, and you may have a case.

If you don't have apostolic succession for your faith, your faith is invented by you, and doesn't come from the 12 apostles, St Paul, and their successors.

If the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth, then what you say must be wrong, because you

speak against the Church, and don't love Her.

1 St Timothy 3:15 says the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth.

Therefore it is you who needs to come to THE truth soon. God bless you.

You say that a man is justified by faith alone, therefore it is you who don't understand James 2:24.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 9, 2011

OldOrthodoxChristian said:

Thanks Scott. You just proved you do not understand scripture. Your only follow what men teach you. What a sad sad case. I actually feel sorry for you. That you think God would not help you understand scripture with the spirit he promised to give you.

Grandpa · Dec 16, 2011

OldOrthodoxChristian said:

You have the words but lack the spiritual discernment. The Church is the body of Christ. It is not a single denomination. It is people who believe in the Lord Jesus and have been born again by Him. They are in all the different denominations. The Lord Jesus does not save institutions, He saves individuals.

Apostolic succession??? Faith without Apostolic succession is dead??? Come out of her, Scott. Faith in the Lord Jesus is what saves us. Jesus Himself gives us His Faith. Not men dressed in funny costumes.

One day, you will see.

God Bless You

OldOrthodoxChristian · Dec 16, 2011

Grandpa;602931 said:

Grandpa: Your words are based upon false premises.

Private judgment. Private belief. No recognizable Church that Christ

founded.

No recognizable body of Christ. No historical context. No bishops.

No sacraments. No traditions of God and the Apostles.

The authority of one man, the pope of Rome.

The authority of one man, Martin Luther, who started the reform of

the pope of Rome.

Only numerous Protestant denominations, all of which contradict the

Bible in some way.

Jesus Himself gave (founded) the Church (Matthew 16:18).

Please explain how believing the following is not "(the) faith in the Lord

Jesus" which "saves us".

"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and earth,

and of all things visible and invisible. And in one LORD, Jesus Christ,

the Son of God, the Only-Begotten, Begotten of the Father before

all ages. Light of Light, true God of true God; Begotten, not made;

consubstantial with the Father; by Whom all things were made; Who

for us men, and for our salvation, came down from Heaven, and was

incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man, and

was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried;

and arose on the the third day according to the Scriptures; and

ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father; and

He shall come again with glory to judge both the living and the dead;

of Whose Kingdom there is no end. And in the Holy Spirit, the LORD,

the Giver of life; Who proceedeth from the Father; Who with the

Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; Who spoke

by the prophets. And in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the remission of sins. I await the

resurrection of the dead, and the life of the age to come. AMEN."

Does the Pope of Rome believe this?

Did Martin Luther believe this?

Or did they both add words to it, in opposition to the Holy Spirit,

Who permits no additions or subtractions to this Holy Creed?

God bless you.

In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington

PS How is the above Creed not true faith in the true Jesus Christ?

Why would the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church need a Pope,

or a Reformation of a Pope?

It comes down to a choice between two "infallible" men, either the

Pope of Rome, or Martin Luther. When the only infallible man we

need is our Lord God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

OldOrthodoxChristian · Dec 16, 2011

Grandpa said:

Dear Grandpa, If the Church is people who believe in the Lord Jesus

Christ and have been born again by Him, why do I need to "come out

of her"? She, the Orthodox Church, believes in Jesus Christ, as Lord, and her members have been born again in

Christ by baptism into the Trinity in the Orthodox Church.

If the truth is in every denomination, are you saying the

Orthodox Church is not the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim.

3:15)? Note this says "the pillar", not "pillars", not multiple denominations!

Your self-contradiction is showing. You contradict yourself

if you believe the Body of Christ is "every denomination".

Well, Matthew 16:18 says nothing about "denominations", does it?

You don't make any sense.

In Erie Scott Harrington

RachelBibleStudent · Dec 16, 2011

OldOrthodoxChristian said:

no church has a proven line of apostolic succession...not one...

OldOrthodoxChristian · Dec 16, 2011

RachelBibleStudent said:

RachelBibleStudent: Think of what you are saying. "There is no Church".
If there is no Apostolic succession, then there is no Church. Because the Church was founded on Christ through with and in the 12 Apostles and Saint Paul, and the other apostolic ministers mentioned in the NT.
The true Christian faith comes from the Apostles of Christ and their successors, the bishops of the Church. The Orthodox Church has a proven line of apostolic succession.
You should not speak things that are not true.
God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
For more information:
"The Apostolic Fathers", edited by Jack N. Sparks. Minneapolis, MN: Light and Life Publishing Company.

OldOrthodoxChristian · Dec 16, 2011

RachelBibleStudent;602963 said:

Dear RachelBibleStudent:

The Orthodox Patriarch bishop of Alexandria has apostolic succession.

The Orthodox Patriarch bishop of Jerusalem has apostolic succession.

The Orthodox Patriarch bishop of Antioch has apostolic succession.

The Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch bishop of Constantinople has apostolic succession.

See:

List of Ecumenical Patriarchs of Constantinople

http:// en.wikipedia.org/List_of_Ecumenical_Patriarchs_of_Constantinople

God bless you!

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

SantoSubito · Dec 16, 2011

RachelBibleStudent said:

It's a pretty straight-forward process. The Apostles ordained men to lead the churches through the laying on of hands, and those men ordained men that would one day succeed them and so on all the way to the modern era. I will admit that detailed records have not been kept on every ordination (since such a thing would have been deemed unnecessary back then). But saying that just because we don't have detailed records it therefore doesn't exist is quite dishonest.

You can see a list of all the Popes from St. Peter down to the current reigning Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI at Wikipedia List of popes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, but if you reject any possibility that Peter could have served as Bishop of Rome then the list starts with Linus.

In fact most Protestant churches sought to maintain Apostolic succession at the beginning. They only abandoned the idea theologically when they couldn't find enough Catholic bishops to defect and ordain their clergy that they abandoned the Idea theologically. This is why Luther tried to get an agreement with the EO on the Augsburg confession, so that he could establish valid Apostolic succession in Lutheranism.

RachelBibleStudent · Dec 16, 2011

OldOrthodoxChristian said:

oh there is a church...it just isn't defined by apostolic succession...

no less than five modern churches claim to have a proven line of apostolic succession...but the truth is that none of them do...

RachelBibleStudent · Dec 16, 2011

OldOrthodoxChristian said:

none of those supposed lines of apostolic succession are confirmed by independent contemporary sources...they don't pass even the most basic test of historical accuracy...

by your logic the egyptian pharaohs were descended from the gods simply because the pharaohs said they were...

Laodicea · Dec 16, 2011

RachelBibleStudent said:

According to Rev 12 there is a church

RachelBibleStudent · Dec 16, 2011

SantoSubito said:

the list of the popes is a perfect example of the failure of apostolic succession...from a historian's point of view the succession of the popes is in total disarray...

first of all many of the popes have no independent corroborating evidence that they even existed...anacletus is an example of that... for all we know many of these characters could be purely fictional...

secondly ancient roman catholic sources themselves even disagree on the most basic issue of papal succession...who was peter's first successor? some say it was linus followed by anacletus and then clement...others say it was linus followed by clement...and still others say it was clement... on top of that there is the fact that the passage in the bible that mentions linus seems to indicate that he was actually in a subordinate position to eubulus...

then there are the various competing antipopes and other popes whose succession was questionable...such as gregory vi who paid benedict ix to resign so he could become his successor...after which gregory vi resigned and his successor clement ii died allowing benedict ix to become pope again...total chaos!

luther's communication with the greek church was undertaken because he expected them to be in theological agreement with him... in the west there was a lot of ignorance about the eastern churches and luther mistakenly expected them to be more or less the protestants of the east... he didn't realize until later that the eastern church was really more like the roman catholic church's eccentric little sister and that the only substantial difference between the two from a protestant point of view was that roman catholic church had a pope...

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