The false claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority ...

[NitzWalsh]

Are you saying that after the NT was completed, the 12 apostles and other disciples of the NT did not preach the Gospel of Christ to all the nations? According to the NT, they did. So that is spoken oral apostolic tradition. If there is no need for tradition, then 2 Thessalonians 2:15 is false. If 2 Thessalonians 2:15 is false, all of St. Paul could be false. Why stop there? Why not only doubt the rest of the NT, but also the OT as well. The idea of no tradition added to the NT Scripture falsifies and makes void 2 Thess. 2:15.
You are assuming tradition was not needed after the Scripture was completed. You are assuming Scripture is complete without the Church that wrote the Scripture. 1 Tim. 3:15. The Church gives the true meaning of Scripture. Without the Church, there is only private interpretations of the OT and NT Scriptures.
Tradition is needed in places where Scripture is not clear.
Tradition is needed in all places, for Scripture is part of Tradition. Scripture is inspired written Tradition. There is inspired oral Tradition as well.
All of them: Scripture and Tradition, and the Church, come from the same Holy Spirit.

What issues are the scriptures not clear on that you need oral tradition for?

 

[needmesomejesus]

Nor are we saying that the Bible isn't a source of faith and doctrine. What we are saying is that it is not the sole source for faith and doctrine.

Okay Jesus is the sole source of faith and the Bible is proof that he is who he says he is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah a couple of big difference between OT Israel and 33 AD and onwards.

1. OT events happened much farther back. Well before writing was universal and people were writing histories.

2. People in Roman times could actually read and write, and writing was a prolific form of communication.

3. Once again we have the writings of every major and minor heretical group. If any of them believed as you then it would show up in the writing of some church father somewhere or we would have their actual writings.

Also every time I reply to these assertions you make you simply dismiss me as "trusting men". Actually address my arguments and prove to me that what you say is there is indeed there.

sorry I goofed. will reply to this later

 

[serpentslayer]

For those who think we need more than the Bible to know and understand the Truth,
i highly suggest you read all of Ecclesiates, in particular the last Chapter (12), which
sums up the search for Truth. And if you have a problem with 'Fear God and Keep
His Commandments (interpreted as know His Book)', then you really don't get it, and,
as i believe, only God can now open your eyes.

 

[Scotth1960]

For those who think we need more than the Bible to know and understand the Truth,
i highly suggest you read all of Ecclesiates, in particular the last Chapter (12), which
sums up the search for Truth. And if you have a problem with 'Fear God and Keep
His Commandments (interpreted as know His Book)', then you really don't get it, and,
as i believe, only God can now open your eyes.

Dear serpentslayer,
I suggest you read 2 Thessalonians 2:15 before you reject oral traditions not written down in Scripture. If you go by sola Scriptura, all preaching would be forbidden, because it's not in Scripture. You would just read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation without comment and without interpretation. But the Bible does not interpret itself. Some man must interpret it (Acts 8:30-31). The question is, which man, which men, will rightly interpret the Scriptures. And which men preach false traditions, traditions of men? We must know and love the truth to know and love the Scriptures interpreted in a right (THE right) way.
Scott Erie PA

 

[Scotth1960]

What issues are the scriptures not clear on that you need oral tradition for?

What does the Scripture say about oral traditions? Does it say to keep them? Yes! It does. 2 Thessalonians 2:15.

 

[NitzWalsh]

What does the Scripture say about oral traditions? Does it say to keep them? Yes! It does. 2 Thessalonians 2:15.

Yes, I'm aware of what 2Thessalonians 2:15 says, what it doesn't say is "Follow traditions even if they contradict scripture".

 

[SantoSubito]

So what you are saying is you have extra, unbiblical faith and doctrine.

Thanks for spelling it out dude.

Unbiblical in the sense that they're not in the Bible, yes. But unbiblical in the sense that they're opposed to scripture, no.

Yes, I'm aware of what 2Thessalonians 2:15 says, what it doesn't say is "Follow traditions even if they contradict scripture".

If you ask me Protestantism threw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to Tradition, and then proceeded to reinvent the wheel. Funnily enough many Evangelicals are starting to discover the ECFs and Church history before the reformation, and are starting to adopt some of the things the radical-reformers (of which Evangelicals are the spiritual descendants) rejected.

 

[Strangelove]

Unbiblical in the sense that they're not in the Bible, yes. But unbiblical in the sense that they're opposed to scripture, no.

Like...call NO MAN FATHER??

Like TOP DOWN AUTHORITY structure of priests??

Unbiblical and against biblical doctrine.

 

[Consumed]

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which all of you have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 2thes 2:15.

By word or their epistle(bible), reading that in context does by no means mean anything added since it was written does it???

 

[Strangelove]

If you ask me Protestantism threw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to Tradition, and then proceeded to reinvent the wheel. Funnily enough many Evangelicals are starting to discover the ECFs and Church history before the reformation, and are starting to adopt some of the things the radical-reformers (of which Evangelicals are the spiritual descendants) rejected.

Of course they are!

We need a great falling away dont we?

 

[pickles]

Although scripture speaks to it, it also speaks to word given in the Holy Spirit as well.
(Know one knows , can imagine, or fathom what God has prepared for those who love Him.
But He has revieled it to us through His Holy Spirit.)

Please correct this if not correctly written.
But the point is, there is understanding that is not in scripture, although it is spoken to.
Just something to consider.

God bless.
pickles

 

[GodsPrincess]

Hi,
I have a few things to add.

1. At the end of the Gospel of John, it says "there are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be desribed individually, I do not thing the whole world would contain the books the would be written" Jn 21:25. This is proven in acts when Paul says "In every way I have shown you that by hard work of that sort we must help the weak and keep in mind the words of the Lord Jesus who himselself said 'It is more blessed to give than to recieve'" Where is that in the Gospels?

2. For people who are so agianst tradition, protestants still live by many traditions. E.g Where in the Bible does it say to celibrate the sabbath on Sunday? Where does it say to celebrate Christamas on December 25?

P.s. This is my very fist post so please bare with me.

 

[serpentslayer]

Dear serpentslayer,
I suggest you read 2 Thessalonians 2:15 before you reject oral traditions not written down in Scripture. If you go by sola Scriptura, all preaching would be forbidden, because it's not in Scripture. You would just read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation without comment and without interpretation. But the Bible does not interpret itself. Some man must interpret it (Acts 8:30-31). The question is, which man, which men, will rightly interpret the Scriptures. And which men preach false traditions, traditions of men? We must know and love the truth to know and love the Scriptures interpreted in a right (THE right) way.
Scott Erie PA

We are all commanded to not be deceived, and to study the SCRIPTURES to show ourselves approved
unto GOD. Since man is a liar (Rom3:4) and GOD wrote a perfect Book of TRUTH, why then should i
rely upon a man (or men) for teaching or interpretations. You are dead wrong about needing other
sources of TRUTH because the Book was written so that all could read and know the TRUTH for
themselves. I guess you missed the part in Eccl12 that says HE (the Preacher) was admonishing
(warning) us about all the other book written about truth. Believe whatever you would, but i believe in
the Word of God Alone because it is perfect (IITim).

 

[Strangelove]

2. For people who are so agianst tradition, protestants still live by many traditions. E.g Where in the Bible does it say to celibrate the sabbath on Sunday? Where does it say to celebrate Christamas on December 25?

P.s. This is my very fist post so please bare with me.

I protest the RCC and I've never celebrated sabbath on sunday or Christmas on Dec 25th. (since becoming Christian anyhoot)

Next tradition that we protestants live by plz.

 

[Scotth1960]

What issues are the scriptures not clear on that you need oral tradition for?

How, when, and where did the Apostles die? Scripture does not say. Holy tradition (oral) does say.
Is it unimportant simply because it is not in Scripture? That's a false assumption!

 

[Strangelove]

How, when, and where did the Apostles die? Scripture does not say. Holy tradition (oral) does say.
Is it unimportant simply because it is not in Scripture? That's a false assumption!

Scott, I'm still waiting for your answer to my post here:

Eastern Orthodoxy is not Talmud Pharisaism (Mishnaism).

 

[kujo313]

Hi,
I have a few things to add.

1. At the end of the Gospel of John, it says "there are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be desribed individually, I do not thing the whole world would contain the books the would be written" Jn 21:25. This is proven in acts when Paul says "In every way I have shown you that by hard work of that sort we must help the weak and keep in mind the words of the Lord Jesus who himselself said 'It is more blessed to give than to recieve'" Where is that in the Gospels?

2. For people who are so agianst tradition, protestants still live by many traditions. E.g Where in the Bible does it say to celibrate the sabbath on Sunday? Where does it say to celebrate Christamas on December 25?

P.s. This is my very fist post so please bare with me.

Ask yourself and research this: what "Gospel" did Paul teach? He warns of anybody teaching another "gospel" other than what he taught.

 

[Nalu]

We are all commanded to not be deceived, and to study the SCRIPTURES to show ourselves approved
unto GOD. Since man is a liar (Rom3:4) and GOD wrote a perfect Book of TRUTH, why then should i
rely upon a man (or men) for teaching or interpretations. You are dead wrong about needing other
sources of TRUTH because the Book was written so that all could read and know the TRUTH for
themselves. I guess you missed the part in Eccl12 that says HE (the Preacher) was admonishing
(warning) us about all the other book written about truth. Believe whatever you would, but i believe in
the Word of God Alone because it is perfect (IITim).

That's right.

 

[dscherck]

Ask yourself and research this: what "Gospel" did Paul teach? He warns of anybody teaching another "gospel" other than what he taught.

I did that. Turns out by the best research I could find, he taught the same gospel that Catholic Church teaches today.