The False Doctrine of OSAS

[cfultz3]

First replay

No.

Has he not forsaken his righteousness. And has it not been said that such an one who abandons his righteousness, that God Himself shall place a stumblingblock before him so that he may fall. In the iniquity of his iniquity, in the sinfulness of his sin, he shall die.

We humans spiritually cannot overcome sin unless we are led away from it by a willingness to be led away from it. It is only when we give Him the authority to lead that the sin we so struggle with becomes a thing of the past. I give an understanding to all: He gives a way out of your sins, turn your eyes to Him and let Him be the Light of your eyes:

Luk 11:34The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single (looking one way, not unfolded back and forth), thy whole body also is full of light; but whenthine eyeis evil, thy body alsoisfull of darkness.

Second reply

I was asked not to answer all the questions until Rick returned and I complied and said I would not answer any until we start up the conversation again. But, it seemed that one took that, of me not answering, as an opportunity to say that we do not understand. So that that one does not get to prideful in his victory, I will give an answer and perhaps the one who looks for victory over his brothers and sisters will see that it is all about love and not a boastful pride.

Rick = black Me = blue

So if someone does all they can to stop a certain failure - (Let's say it is spiritual pride) -- Let us say a beseeching sin

Let's draw an illustration: a pastor of a large church has been given the gift of explaining and extrapulating the words the The Book as if he were Moses himself...........and as the tongues of angels the word flowed so beautifully and effortlessly off his tongue........and masses wept at his sermons and rushed the alter even before he gave the alter call.......(And so his ministry went, soaring ever higher and higher.....)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- -- - - - -
But when he was home, and when he was alone with his thoughts; he would muse on himself and the great lyrical ability he had.........and he would begin to get lifted up in his own eyes.........
But as he would he recognized it every time and felt badly, as a sort of self-hatred for ever even thinking such a thing.......(and satan seeing the self loathing he(satan) could aquire in the man ; he sent ever more demons to harass the preacher..................as time passed the attacks of superiority got stronger, and his self loathing got more urgent. Until finally the preacher broke, and completely backslid into gross sin.......because he could never SEE that the ideas of self lifting up in his head were not from him at all......but from evil spirits who tormented him. -- then it would seem he was listening to the wrong spirit. And therefore, was not being led by God and was not testing the spirits to see if they were of God or satan. So, in the sin of pride, as satan, he fell from grace.

He rejects himself as being a hypocrite.......and he rejects his calling. -- he was is righteous and gives up his righteousness is no better off than the one who lives in rebellion.

He ends up drinking himself to death, because he never understood those thoughts of self-righteousness were not originating from his spirit but from evil spirits. -- So then, us being guiding by the Spirit is therefore a requirment to be led home. Seeing that if he was led by the Spirit then he would not have been led astray. It is therefore conclusive that God stands correct, he who does righteousness is righteous as He is righteous. And from that we can conclude that he who does wickedness is wicked as satan is wicked.

Does He Go To Heaven? -- No. Besides not being led by God but by evil spirits, he abandoned his righteousness for whatever reason he did. Here I tell all, if you are not being led to God's rest by Him, then where are you being led to and by whom?

 

[RickShafer]

So if someone does all they can to stop a certain failure - (Let's say it is spiritual pride)
Let's draw an illustration: a pastor of a large church has been given the gift of explaining and extrapulating
the words the The Book as if he were Moses himself...........and as the tongues of angels the word flowed so
beautifully and effortlessly off his tongue........and masses wept at his sermons and rushed the alter even
before he gave the alter call.......(And so his ministry went, soaring ever higher and higher.....)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- -- - - - -
But when he was home, and when he was alone with his thoughts; he would muse on himself and the great lyrical
ability he had.........and he would begin to get lifted up in his own eyes.........
But as he would he recognized it every time and felt badly, as a sort of self-hatred for ever even thinking such
a thing.......(and satan seeing the self loathing he(satan) could aquire in the man ; he sent ever more demons to harass the preacher
..................as time passed the attacks of superiority got stronger, and his self loathing got more urgent.
Until finally the preacher broke, and completely backslid into gross sin.......because he could never SEE that the ideas of self lifting up in his
head were not from him at all......but from evil spirits who tormented him.
He rejects himself as being a hypocrite.......and he rejects his calling.
He ends up drinking himself to death, because he never understood those thoughts of self-righteousness were not originating from his spirit but
from evil spirits.
Does He Go To Heaven?

 

[feedm3]

There is a difference. I am not saying I can lose or gain salvation based on anything I do or do not do.

I know you dont, like sin. You believe you can ever fall into sin, and believe if you did God would bring you back.

Your doctrine does not make sense because yo say too many different things.

SO which is it going to be today?

A. it is impossible for a Christian to ever fall into sin, because John said we cannot?
B. If a Christian does fall into sin, God will bring him back to the faith?
c. God will make him so miserable on earth he will have no choice?
D. If a person does not show a changed life he was never really saved?

Which is it? A and D cannot be true at the sametime. C. does not agree with freewill. B. Like C, if not found anywhere in scripture, and cannot be true at the same time as A. D is what we have been saying the entire time (except I dont how you know who was ever really saved and who isnt). So which one?

There is nothing "twisted" here, you know you have said all of these, I am sure they are still on here.

They cant all be true at the same time. You pick ONE and will focus on moving forward. I cant discuss anything when you teach ALL of these at the same time, because I cant know which direction to go with you.

 

[RickShafer]

Another pastor listened too the same type of evil spirit, but it didn't bother him at all.
Infact he grew to love them. He died also....neither pastor knew what caused their fall.
One is convinced the demonic attacks are his own evil, so he punished himself;
the other agrees with the demons, and glories in the pride manifested.

Are both equally guilty?

 

[cfultz3]

Another pastor listened too the same type of evil spirit, but it didn't bother him at all.
Infact he grew to love them. He died also....neither pastor knew what caused their fall. -- Whatever causes one to fall is what one dies in. The one who leaves his righteousness and lives a moral wrongful live will die in the iniquity of his iniquity, the sinfullness of his sin and it will be God Himself who shall place the stumblingblock before Him so that he will fall. Apostating is apostating. if one abandons God, then were else does one have to go to enter God's rest?

One is convinced the demonic attacks are his own evil, so he punished himself; -- his fall is that he listened not to God but to evil spirits.

the other agrees with the demons, and glories in the pride manifested. -- his pride is his fall

Are both equally guilty? -- Yes, seeing that they both, and apparently not having God's Spirit as their Guide, abandoned God on their own freewill.

 

[cfultz3]

If you wish Rick, I can open a moderated chat room where only you and I will be able to speak and all who wants to come to it will be able to listen completely?

 

[cfultz3]

If you wish Rick, I can open a moderated chat room where only you and I will be able to speak and all who wants to come to it will be able to listen completely?

I will take every post you and I posted and will post them in order in that room. Yes?

 

[RickShafer]

'and it will be God Himself who shall place the stumblingblock before Him so that he will fall.'

God does not tempt one to fall. - James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, that I am tempted
from God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither He tempteth any man

 

[RickShafer]

Whatever you want to do if fine with me.

 

[RickShafer]

That sounds like a lot of work for you.
But maybe it would help make reading the debate easier for people.....
it's up to you.

 

[cfultz3]

'and it will be God Himself who shall place the stumblingblock before Him so that he will fall.'

God does not tempt one to fall. - James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, that I am tempted
from God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither He tempteth any man

It is not that God is tempting them with evil, but that when in His wisdom he knows they will not turn from thier wickedness, that He will cause them to fall from the path. It is the iniquity and sin which has turned them away from God.

Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

 

[cfultz3]

That sounds like a lot of work for you.
But maybe it would help make reading the debate easier for people.....
it's up to you.

If you will I would like that. I really do not know how long it will take but I will do it.

 

[cfultz3]

Shall we then continue tomarrow instead with all the posts in that room?

 

[cfultz3]

Shall we then continue tomarrow instead with all the posts in that room?

I am making a moderated room and really do not know how long it will take, but all posts betwenn Rick and i will be there for all to logically follow. I will post here the channel name and how to get to it. God bless for now

 

[RickShafer]

Good idea.

 

[GreenNnice]

Tempting someone into evil, indeed, is something God will not do but someone with a hardened heart, God will use into their own folly, as Pharoah, who had a hardenened heart in the first place, pharoah had ample opportunity certainly to accept Christ. Christ wants to try the condemned (lost) to Him , for he wants them out of the world and into Him. But those that do not accept His draw, they will even so then have their heart hardened even more BY God.

God will Love and bevthere for us as long as we don't become unfaithfull, for He cannot be unfaithful when we are His, in His hand, and, silly to think any different, for those in His Hand He will NOT let be snatched !

However, when we leave do something active (Or passive even) to leaVe His hand, BREACH THE CONTRACT of His obedient ways for us, we cause His wrath, His condemnation (read Romans 3) . When the Israelites turned tonother God's they'd chose not to obey the Law and that was straight disobedience to God and He forsook them at that point !
So, yes, just as cee says, IF we go and change from righteousness living to unrighteous, again, read Romans 3, then God will chastise us at first, going after His sheep to come back. But if their lies and falsehood continue runaway out of control and there is no longer righteousness, no longer a covering forvthst believer's sins, they ARE condemned ! God will do all things all , motioning things His way, even an end devised for the wicked, stumbling them from their blockheadednesz into a way by God that will truly KNOW they just FELL horribly into the hands of our living God ! This 'falling' is a very 'fearful' thing,vtoo, itvis written in Scripture, what's the verse?

Judas , for his 30 shekels of silver betrayal was made a great example by God, what 'blood money it turned out to be, his own ! Of Judas' bribe winnings he got nothing but the field he purchased with his shrieks, that he died in, becoming known as the 'Field of Blood.'

 

[ByGraceSaved]

This thread topic is false.
The Doctrine of OSAS is true.
There are false ministers that say otherwise who's end is according to their works. -
For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

The truth is the believer who trusts their salvation to Christ is sealed with the holy spirit. -
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:12,13)

The gospel in which a believer is saved is by the gift of God. It is not of yourselves or works for salvation -
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9)

The preaching of the cross is the gospel -
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:17, 18)

 

[cfultz3]

Ok. All is welcome to join the following group chat room. it is moderated and all will be accepted to listen.

the url to group chat is : http://christianchat.com/group.php

The chat room is called : A Fair Debate of OSAS

 

[cfultz3]

This thread topic is false.
The Doctrine of OSAS is true.
There are false ministers that say otherwise who's end is according to their works. -
For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

The truth is the believer who trusts their salvation to Christ is sealed with the holy spirit. -
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:12,13)

The gospel in which a believer is saved is by the gift of God. It is not of yourselves or works for salvation -
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9)

The preaching of the cross is the gospel -
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:17, 18)

Though you just set there and said we are deceivers, workers of evil, you want us to respond to that?

 

[ByGraceSaved]

Though you just set there and said we are deceivers, workers of evil, you want us to respond to that?

God is the word that exposes truth through the word. I am merely showing light to what people are about through the scripture. Some may just not know what they are doing and saying. The scripture is what I use to show truth. Read the rest of the post and not get so easily offended.