The False Doctrine of OSAS

[psychomom]

yeah we can always get Him in a strangling hold and tell Him He has no right to be judging me because I said a little prayer and if He does not stop it then you will get the Son on Him.

I wish you could hear the softness of my voice and see the love in my face as I say this...

I see your love for the Lord, brother.
I see your wish to follow Him with your entire being.
It blesses me!

I am sorry to have spoken facetiously. We surely all wish to be good and faithful children of the Father. We all, like you, believe in obedience. I don't think any of us want to represent Christ in an unfaithful way, or to speak anything false about Him.

My point is just that I have no power to do the will of my Father.
But the One Who died for me, He gives me that power through the gift of salvation.
Without Him I can do all of nothing.
But with Him all things are possible, and some things are absolutely definitely going to happen.
Not because I will it so, or I do anything to make it so.
But because He does.

I am truly sorry to have offended you.
Will you forgive me?
-ellie

 

[Abiding]

Why not get inside of it instead, where you belong and stop your foolish remarks

Oh yes! this feels much better
I feel "led" ty

 

[RickShafer]

I stand accused, but I don't know what for.
Please tell me.
That I may either judge it as harshness or repent.
How can I answer if I don't know the charges.
Please reply because I value you views Chris.

 

[Abiding]

Ha thanks Abiding looks very yummy! Tori says hello!!!
in Christ
brother Travis

Your welcome Travis...give a big hug to Tori for me
and this:

and dont you dare eat them all
cuz ill ask her.

 

[cfultz3]

To those who are being misled by the OSAS doctrine, something new to disqualify obedience (posting one difinition at a time)

G3980 - to obey a ruler or superior, submit to authority, hearken

It necessary (must need be) to hearken unto God more than to humans. (TR Acts 5:29)

If is it necessary to obey God more than man, what happens if we choose not to, seeing it says 'more than'?
What happens if we obey man more than God?
What if they did not preach the Gospel but instead obeyed the coucil?
Surely they would not had done this because they were so grateful, would they?


And we are His witnesses of those same words and as also the Holy Spirit, whom God have given to those who are being obedient Him (TR Acts 5:32)

Do we still have the Holy Spirit if we are not obeying God, seeing that it is said that the Holy Spirit is given to those who ARE obeying?


You are to remind them to keep themselves subordinate to rulers and authorities, to be suborniated towards every good toil, to be those prepared. (TR Titus 3:1)

Why are we to be obedient to them? Is there consequences if we do not?
What are the consequences of not being obedient to the toil placed upon us by Christ?
Let the reader decide the proper translation of Titus 3:1

Tit 3:1υπομιμνησκεG5279 V-PAM-2S - (you are to remind) αυτουςG846 P-APM - (them) αρχαιςG746 N-DPF - (unto rulers) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) εξουσιαιςG1849 N-DPF - (unto authoritiies) υποτασσεσθαιG5293 V-PMN - (to keep themselves subordinated (middle voice)) πειθαρχεινG3980 V-PAN - (to be suborinated) προςG4314 PREP - (towards) πανG3956 A-ASN - (every) εργονG2041 N-ASN - (good) αγαθονG18 A-ASN - (toil) ετοιμουςG2092 A-APM - (those prepared) ειναιG1510 V-PAN - (to be)

But after long abstinence Paul stood forth in the midst of them, and said, Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me, and not have loosed from Crete, and to have gained this harm and loss. (KJV 27:21)

What was the consequences of not having obeyed Paul in the first place?
Was it not by their own actions that they gained harm and a loss?

 

[psychomom]

Was Paul speaking to believers in Acts 27?

Just saying...there's a difference between those in the Beloved and those outside, and also there's a difference between the discipline of the Father toward those who belong to Jesus and having the Father disown His children when they disobey.

At what point in our sin does the Father disown us? Honest question.

That's just my perspective on that, which seems to disagree with yours, Chris.
Not disrespectfully, but disagreement nonetheless.
-ellie

 

[RickShafer]

The authority all true believers submit to is the Spirit of Christ......
namely the Holy Spirit.
There are many rulers. And there are many gods.
There are many spiritual leaders, and there are many charlatans.
As the thief on the cross, and Jonah in the belly of the fish, and Elijah in the cave, and Joseph wrestling with the angel.....and the virgin Mary-
(when she was told she would birth the child who would 'deliver His people").
All of them said in their own way, "Not my will but thine oh Lord".
So is every disciple that knows the voice of his/her Shepherd.
The men on the ship from Crete were not believers.

 

[cfultz3]

To those who are being misled by the OSAS doctrine, something new to disqualify obedience (posting one difinition at a time)

g5255 - (adjective) = given ear, obedient, attentively listened, submissive


For which reason, I also wrote so that I would have known about your* testing, whether you* are obedient one (adjective) into (result) all things? (TR 2Co 2:9)
What were the things they to be obedient in?
What if they did not confirm their love for him and forgiven him? What are the consequences?
What is said of those who do not show love? Forgiveness?
Whose choice was it to either forgive or not forgive?


And, having been found in condition as a human, He, having caused Himself to become an obedient one even unto death, even a cross's death, He humbled Himself (TR Php 2:8)

What if He did not show Himself to be an obedient one even unto death?
What did He learn from His sufferings?
What if He did not fulfill God's will?
Then by whose obedience would we be righteous by?
If He as Son need to learn obedience, why not us to Him be those obedient?


Unto Whom our fathers did not (abs. neg.) choose (determined, desire) to have made themselves (middle deponent) those obedient, but rather, they pushed Him away from themselves (middle depodent) and their hearts were reversed back (passive, second aorist: consequence) into Egypt (TR Act 7:39)

Whose choice was it not to obey God?
Who, just like Jesus, make themselves ones who are ones obedient?
Who did the pushing away? God or them?
What is the consequence of having pushed God away?
What does it mean to have the heart reverted back to from where it came from?
In Ezekiell 3:20, who does the reverting by placing a stumblingblock so that they of this sort are caused to fall?

 

[cfultz3]

Will continue later with the rest of the words. Let these be food for thought.

 

[cfultz3]

I wish you could hear the softness of my voice and see the love in my face as I say this...

I see your love for the Lord, brother.
I see your wish to follow Him with your entire being.
It blesses me!

I am sorry to have spoken facetiously. We surely all wish to be good and faithful children of the Father. We all, like you, believe in obedience. I don't think any of us want to represent Christ in an unfaithful way, or to speak anything false about Him.

My point is just that I have no power to do the will of my Father.
But the One Who died for me, He gives me that power through the gift of salvation.
Without Him I can do all of nothing.
But with Him all things are possible, and some things are absolutely definitely going to happen.
Not because I will it so, or I do anything to make it so.
But because He does.

I am truly sorry to have offended you.
Will you forgive me?
-ellie

And I wish you can see the sincerity on my face when I say,

God cannot be responsible for all our actions. If all we do is what God does through us, then who is the one to blame when the human does not listen to Him when He said, 'STOP!. Give that family some money to eat." Come now all, will not God then be judged when we say we can do nothing of our own will to please God and it is therefore all on Him . Did not our Messiah have a freewill to follow God? So, what if He said instead, "Not your will, but my will"? Just as He did , we must do also. Learned Him His obedience by the things He suffered. Do we not have our faith tested as He did?

 

[Abiding]

2 cor 9:7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

This is how we are to give. God has given us a new heart and wants that to be the guide.

Where does it say in the bible that God tells us where and when to give?

 

[marianna]

And I wish you can see the sincerity on my face when I say,

God cannot be responsible for all our actions. If all we do is what God does through us, then who is the one to blame when the human does not listen to Him when He said, 'STOP!. Give that family some money to eat." Come now all, will not God then be judged when we say we can do nothing of our own will to please God and it is therefore all on Him . Did not our Messiah have a freewill to follow God? So, what if He said instead, "Not your will, but my will"? Just as He did , we must do also. Learned Him His obedience by the things He suffered. Do we not have our faith tested as He did?

Are you claiming God gives you specific personalized daily instructions in words?
That He tells you when to stop and when to go throughout the day?

If you want to know about what He has said about helping people in need, go to the source and read it.
Like we all do. He hasn't changed His mind on that.

Are you suggesting we start listening to voices in our heads giving us moment by moment personalized directives?

 

[Abiding]

2 cor 9:7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

This is how we are to give. God has given us a new heart and wants that to be the guide.

Where does it say in the bible that God tells us where and when to give?

...........

 

[cfultz3]

The only way people offend me is the mockery of the Scriptures they denullify so that the OSAS can stand. The mockery is not to me but to God.

This should answer all emails concerning this.

 

[cfultz3]

Are you claiming God gives you specific personalized daily instructions in words?
That He tells you when to stop and when to go throughout the day?

If you want to know about what He has said about helping people in need, go to the source and read it.
Like we all do. He hasn't changed His mind on that.

Are you suggesting we start listening to voices in our heads giving us moment by moment personalized directives?

And here comes the worse one of them all

Read the post before you post your ignorant words

 

[Abiding]

of coarse our faith is tested but notice the context and see if its anything like the way you exhort.

1 Peter 1:2-9
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Praise to God for a Living Hope

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

 

[Abiding]

The only way people offend me is the mockery of the Scriptures they denullify so that the OSAS can stand. The mockery is not to me but to God.

This should answer all emails concerning this.

show where the mockery is

 

[cfultz3]

show where the mockery is

And that would be: the one who denies half of Scriptures or the one who accepts all of Scripture?

Who is the fool who believes God did not mean half of the stuff He inspired?

Who is the ignorant one (not you) who denies God in His administration of the Spirit leading one's spirit home?

Who is the deceived one who says that hearkening to God is not needed for salvation?

 

[Abiding]

Settle down you said this:

`````````````````````````````````````

If all we do is what God does through us, then who is the one to blame when the human does not listen to Him when He said, 'STOP!. Give that family some money to eat."



`````````````````````````````
Originally Posted by marianna
Are you claiming God gives you specific personalized daily instructions in words?
That He tells you when to stop and when to go throughout the day?

If you want to know about what He has said about helping people in need, go to the source and read it.
Like we all do. He hasn't changed His mind on that.

Are you suggesting we start listening to voices in our heads giving us moment by moment personalized directives?


`````````````````````````

she asked that and you say this"

And here comes the worse one of them all

Read the post before you post your ignorant words

 

[Abiding]

And that would be: the one who denies half of Scriptures or the one who accepts all of Scripture?

I asked you to show the mockery...who is denying scripture? show that