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So you are changing what you are saying from once saved, always saved to once forgiven always forgiven?
that verse 26 you posted means something entirely different to a Christian than it would mean to one following Judaism. In fact, if you were trying to make it mean that if someone sins after they are saved then they lose their salvation, that would go directly against much of the rest of the Lords promises. That can't be. The scriptures don't make the Lord Jesus a liar.
I can't change your faith. All I can do is show you that a bigger faith exists. One where fear is cast out in perfect love.
1 John 4:15-19
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
that verse 26 you posted means something entirely different to a Christian than it would mean to one following Judaism. In fact, if you were trying to make it mean that if someone sins after they are saved then they lose their salvation, that would go directly against much of the rest of the Lords promises. That can't be. The scriptures don't make the Lord Jesus a liar.
I can't change your faith. All I can do is show you that a bigger faith exists. One where fear is cast out in perfect love.
1 John 4:15-19
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
C
and you would be correct. Except in your assumption that loving is essential to salvation. --
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
lol. Read this again my friend. WE KNOW WE HAVE PAST FROM DEATH TO LIFE. why? BECAUSE WE DO LOVE. --ok
This proves me right, thank you. What would we prove if we did not love the brotheren? We have not past from death to life. Which is why paul is warning everyone who reads this passage. And if you do not love your brother (one from the same house and thus, this 'you' is of that house), then you DO abide in death. So, he is saying 'click' on the love of agape for your brothers, inasmuch as this sort of love is commanded from Jesus.
　
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
But this is not us.. why> Because WE KNOW WE HAVE PAST FROM DEATH TO LIFE. Why? WE DO LOVE THE BRETHEREN.
Try reading with an open heart and not with closed eyes, and you could see what Paul said. -- Will you read it please as seeing that if one is a brother then they must both be of the same house, speficially the house of faith. The light of my eyes is the Light and He gives me understanding. So, no! I am not blind or deafened.
　
do you want to try again? Your passage PROVES ETERNAL LIFE IS ETERNAL AND NOT CONDITIONAL. -- it proves that a brother can hate a brother and that we are to love and if we do not then we abide in death.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
lol. Read this again my friend. WE KNOW WE HAVE PAST FROM DEATH TO LIFE. why? BECAUSE WE DO LOVE. --ok
This proves me right, thank you. What would we prove if we did not love the brotheren? We have not past from death to life. Which is why paul is warning everyone who reads this passage. And if you do not love your brother (one from the same house and thus, this 'you' is of that house), then you DO abide in death. So, he is saying 'click' on the love of agape for your brothers, inasmuch as this sort of love is commanded from Jesus.
　
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
But this is not us.. why> Because WE KNOW WE HAVE PAST FROM DEATH TO LIFE. Why? WE DO LOVE THE BRETHEREN.
Try reading with an open heart and not with closed eyes, and you could see what Paul said. -- Will you read it please as seeing that if one is a brother then they must both be of the same house, speficially the house of faith. The light of my eyes is the Light and He gives me understanding. So, no! I am not blind or deafened.
　
do you want to try again? Your passage PROVES ETERNAL LIFE IS ETERNAL AND NOT CONDITIONAL. -- it proves that a brother can hate a brother and that we are to love and if we do not then we abide in death.
C
Or, in other words, are we, truly, resting in Christ's salvation yet?
Is this correct way to put it, cee?
Maybe I should just say, 'Are we dead yet?'
Is this correct way to put it, cee?
Maybe I should just say, 'Are we dead yet?'
Yes it would be. This is an extention to Reinitin thread.
All I know is that those who are our witnesses in Heaven have entered thier rest, seeing that they are no longer under the curse placed upon them by the expulsion from Eden. And they are, in all reality, partakers of the fellowship which was lost when we first sinned. That is, a fellowship where they see the face of God which is no longer hidden because of sin. They have achieved that which we fleshly saints wich to achieve, the rest found in the presence of God.
So, if I am not dead yet, my works are still to be accounted for, and I am not in God's presence, am I not still looking for my rest?
Good questions.
G
But they have been cleansed from their sins.Just because Scripture says...
"If we confess our sins, He is able and just to forgive us our sins and CLEANSE us from ALL unrigteousness.
This does NOT mean like I said before, grampsK,, that we can't go back to the forgiveness place more than once./ NOt forgiven once always forgiven! (what do the words 'remaineth' mean to you in this verse? 26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.
Reddy! How's that sound, Hook There is NO LONGER, the remains of the day (I just LOVE! that Hopkins flick, btw) are DONE for that sinner, and, sure they can come back, as long as he hath breath let him come back to the Lord. But , these words 'remaineth no more' mean this person had a SAVING BELIEVER'S CHRIST-HUNG heart, this person who decided to keep sinning and sinning LOST God's grace and IF you care to read to me verse 27 you will see just how much this person lost By the way, we are in Hebrews chapter 10, and, we are going to Heaven .
"If we confess our sins, He is able and just to forgive us our sins and CLEANSE us from ALL unrigteousness.
This does NOT mean like I said before, grampsK,, that we can't go back to the forgiveness place more than once./ NOt forgiven once always forgiven! (what do the words 'remaineth' mean to you in this verse? 26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.
Reddy! How's that sound, Hook
There is NO LONGER, the remains of the day (I just LOVE! that Hopkins flick, btw) are DONE for that sinner, and, sure they can come back, as long as he hath breath let him come back to the Lord. But , these words 'remaineth no more' mean this person had a SAVING BELIEVER'S CHRIST-HUNG heart, this person who decided to keep sinning and sinning LOST God's grace and IF you care to read to me verse 27 you will see just how much this person lost By the way, we are in Hebrews chapter 10, and, we are going to Heaven .
Simply though, Hebrews 10-26 is dead clear in saying you CAN be with a saving faith but then your abounding grace of your committed sins become null and void by continuos, willful sin, which seperates us from God in the first place but like fruit of John 15 getting 'cut off' so do those get the result of 10:26 earning in subsequent 10:27 verse.
My faith is SECURE , grampsK , I'm not personally attacking you, so , why you me???
My hope is in our living God who lives in me. I hope and pray He lives in you, too.
C
You trust Him and yet you preach to others that He is untrustworthy. That is odd, isn't it? --Not once have I said that God is untrustworthy. But, all the more, I have said He is to be trusted in His leading. But, I think you mean 'faithful'. And if that is the case, then neither have I said that either. God is faithful to carry our His righteous. So, if a rigtheous person leaves his righteousness and do moral evilness, death awaits him and his righteousness is not remembered. God indeed stays faithful to Himself.
How can you trust in Him if you think He will repent of His gifts that He has promised? -- Again, that has never came out of my mouth. But, we can renig out of freewill. Adam and Eve, Satan and the fallen angels, Esau, they all renigged. Why can't we?
I trust Him and I am here to tell people that He is trustworthy and He does back up His promises. --He is TRUSTWORTHY to lead me as He said He would to those who place their convidence in Him. Yes, I trust Him, but I do not trust my flesh.
Ephesians 3:14-21
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Amen!!
[/quote]
How can you trust in Him if you think He will repent of His gifts that He has promised? -- Again, that has never came out of my mouth. But, we can renig out of freewill. Adam and Eve, Satan and the fallen angels, Esau, they all renigged. Why can't we?
I trust Him and I am here to tell people that He is trustworthy and He does back up His promises. --He is TRUSTWORTHY to lead me as He said He would to those who place their convidence in Him. Yes, I trust Him, but I do not trust my flesh.
Ephesians 3:14-21
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Amen!!
[/quote]
G
Cee is remarkably explaining Truth to you right now, grampsK, eg, and, please, don't remain blind to His Truth, Hebrews speaks to us too, not just Jews, in fact, we are all GRAFTED in as Jews in Christ and Hebrews explains that in its chapters too
Simply though, Hebrews 10-26 is dead clear in saying you CAN be with a saving faith but then your abounding grace of your committed sins become null and void by continuos, willful sin, which seperates us from God in the first place but like fruit of John 15 getting 'cut off' so do those get the result of 10:26 earning in subsequent 10:27 verse.
My faith is SECURE , grampsK , I'm not personally attacking you, so , why you me???
My hope is in our living God who lives in me. I hope and pray He lives in you, too.
Simply though, Hebrews 10-26 is dead clear in saying you CAN be with a saving faith but then your abounding grace of your committed sins become null and void by continuos, willful sin, which seperates us from God in the first place but like fruit of John 15 getting 'cut off' so do those get the result of 10:26 earning in subsequent 10:27 verse.
My faith is SECURE , grampsK , I'm not personally attacking you, so , why you me???
My hope is in our living God who lives in me. I hope and pray He lives in you, too.
But, I CHOOSE to nice, NEVER forget that He in me leads, but it is my job to follow, as cee states, contend for the faith, for when the Spirit leads, it is great to obey, and, not our of works, not our of salvation , but , out of Love
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W
"The father has put all thing under him (Christ) yet, we see not all things yet put under him." I have hope in this and in Gods care for me .I also have the substance ,by faith in what I hope for. So I experience rest now through faith and hope."But when that which is perfect is come that which is in part shall be done away"."but now abideth faith, hope,and love but the greatest is love. We will not need faith or hope when we have what we hope for, only love will remain,as far as I can see.....A scripture I just saw 2 Pet2:22......the true proverb, the dog has returned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
E
rolls eyes. Why bother?
We know we have been born again because we love. Those are pauls words, why question him?
Paul is speaking to many people. There are many churches who read his letters would you not agre? So should not Paul speak to everyone in the church or everyone who reads?
Paul makes a factual statement, WE (those of us like paul who have been born again) KNOW we have been born again, why? we love.
but what about those who do not love who also happen to be reading this same letter? Should he not speak and warn them also? Should he not be telling them to search their hearts and see if they do love? and then conclude that if they do not love, they have not been born again. The same as james did. Many claim to be saved, but they have mere faith and not belief. Can one be saved if they do not have faith? I think we both agree the answer is no.
M
Oh, so you still demand that I drink poison to prove the Bible to you I see. Yet again I'll point out that you're twisting scripture in the same way that Satan twisted it in Luke 4:9-13 when satan told Jesus to throw himself off a cliff. Replace throwing yourself off a cliff with drinking poison, and you're doing the same thing to me. Last time I pointed this out, you didn't like it, and then still proceeded in your ways of demanding that I drink poison to prove the Bible to you. Why is it my job to prove the Bible to someone who claims to be a Bible-believing Christian?
Well then it's a good thing I don't teach that.
So you don't ever disobey? you have no sin left in your corruptible body? if you say no, then the sacrifice COVERING no long holds you up, then you have get resaved again, and again , and again. But you say it's impossible to come back. If you say Yes, you don't sin anymore, you prove yourself a liar and Christ is not in you!