FreeGrace2 said:
Regarding "rapture", the pretribbers have included the notion that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven. That is not true, as there are NO verses that show such a trip.
What this means in practical terms is that those who "are alive and remain" will NEVER see heaven. Ever.
Only believers who die before the Second Advent will have that experience. And trip to there.
Taken up to "the clouds". Only.
I didn't add anything. It's the pretribbers who have added heaven to the gathering, caught up event. They think Jesus will take the glorified believers to heaven. Where is that taught in the Bible?
What is perfectly clear from Scripture is that there is just ONE resurrection for believers.
Matt 22:30 - At
the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Singular
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at
the resurrection of the righteous.” ditto
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. One resurrection each.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then,
when he comes, those who belong to him. Again, singular, "when He comes". That is a singular event, called the Second Advent.
2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
What do the red words in both verses refer to, if not the Second Advent?
Those believers "who are alive and remain" per 1 Thess 4 will NOT go to heaven. This is proven by Rev 20:5.
Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been
beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)
This is the first resurrection.
The blue words show these martyrs come out of the Trib. The red words show that they are resurrected and will reign with Christ during the Millennial reign, which is after the Tribulation.
The purpose words specifically call the resurrection of these martyrs the FIRST resurrection.
There is no getting around the FACT that there can be NO pretrib resurrection or rapture.
There is only ONE resurrection for the saved, and that resurrection will occur "when He comes" back at the Second Advent.
But you are free to address each of these verses and prove to the thread that they don't say what I believe they say, and say so clearly.