The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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Jul 23, 2018
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#41
Hi CS1,

The 12 disciples never fully understood the revelation that the Lord gave to the Apostle Paul. Remember that they only taught that Jesus was Lord and the Christ, (Acts 2: 36). And Peter was trying to get the Gentile believers to be like Jews. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14). Their promised inheritance is to be the rulers over the 12 tribes of Israel. (Matt. 19: 28) They were always looking for the Lord to bring His rulership (kingdom) through Israel on earth. (Acts 1: 6)
Peter had the revelation before paul.
Hyper paulines are spreading the deficiency of the non pauline books.

All the books build on each other.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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#42
Jesus is back. What you lack is patience and patience, Believe in what you want。
Even if the world is bad and you hate it, on the day of resurrection, everything will be renewed. What you lack is faith, expectation and hope.
We will meet Jesus When we asleep.
Believe me, Jesus has returned. It's just a day you don't know。
Believe me, I've been confused about things in the world, but it doesn't stop my faith.
Love is hope, if you believe in God so loves us,Resurrection will not be late,Just right。
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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#43
In Jeremiah 6:11 Everyone who is "taken" is experiencing God's judgment. You definitely wanted to be left on earth.

In Zephaniah 3:11-13 - God will remove the wicked and leave a remnant of righteous people in Jerusalem after its judgment.

In Zechariah 13:8 Those who are left behind get to live while the rest die.

Were we caught/raptured up into his Kingdom when we first believed? (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

Didn't Jesus say I will receive you to Myself? (John 14:3)

God never intended to take people off the earth until they died physically. Jesus even prayed about it. (John 17:15)

Folks, it's spiritual It's the whole point of being IN Him while on this earth. He has made us One with Him. (John 14:20)
God`s kingdom/rule is over all. (Ps. 24: 1& 2) He made it all, (Col. 1: 16) He never gave it away, He is just dealing with the rebellious.

The quotes from the OT are for those people. For us we need to read what Christ the HEAD of the Body is telling us in the Apostle Paul`s writings.

We have been promised to be made like Christ, (Rom. 8: 29) and receive an incorruptible and immortal body (1 Cor. 15: 53) which is NOT made for this world but for Christ`s own throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

As the Apostle Paul says by the Lord`s Holy Spirit, `Let no one defraud you of your reward.......& not holding fast to the Head...` (Col. 2: 18 & 19)
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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#44
That is an attempt to misrepresent "the fulness of the Gentiles". Since the context is the addition of Gentiles to the "good olive tree" of believing Israel, it is indeed about the number of Gentile branches to be added: And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
The `Olive Tree` is the Lord. He is the one who is `holy,` able to nourish us, and upholds us,` (Rom. 11: 16 - 18) NOT Israel.
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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#45
Peter had the revelation before paul.
Hyper paulines are spreading the deficiency of the non pauline books.

All the books build on each other.
So please show where Peter or any of the other 12 preached about the Body of Christ.

And are you saying that Paul lied when He said that he was given this revelation of the Body of Christ which had NOT been revealed before?

And yes all books build on each other as to the revelation of Christ`s character and His purposes.
 

DLM

Member
Dec 28, 2021
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#46
God`s kingdom/rule is over all. (Ps. 24: 1& 2) He made it all, (Col. 1: 16) He never gave it away, He is just dealing with the rebellious.

The quotes from the OT are for those people. For us we need to read what Christ the HEAD of the Body is telling us in the Apostle Paul`s writings.

We have been promised to be made like Christ, (Rom. 8: 29) and receive an incorruptible and immortal body (1 Cor. 15: 53) which is NOT made for this world but for Christ`s own throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

As the Apostle Paul says by the Lord`s Holy Spirit, `Let no one defraud you of your reward.......& not holding fast to the Head...` (Col. 2: 18 & 19)
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 are interpreted to refer to the Resurrection, not a rapture. For two thousand years most Christians understood that these verses referred to the resurrection of the dead.

The rapture theory has grown in popularity so quickly that many Christians assume it to be true.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:17 At the resurrection, those that were left alive were caught up in the AIR (spiritual), just as we were when we first accepted Christ. Now we will be with the Lord forever. Those that were physically dead (in their grave) went to heaven. Those alive were caught into the kingdom into Christ. Those that died physically went to heaven those alive went into the Kingdom, the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:51-56
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed
(Not all of them would sleep (die) and await a resurrection, but some of them would be alive during and after Christ coming and those would be changed.)
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(After the trumps sounds those who were physically dead would have their souls/spirits be raised incorruptible and those who were still alive physically would be changed, so that their souls would never stay in the grave, but go from this body to a celestial one and go from earth to heaven when their physical bodies perished)
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(Corruptible were the ones physically dead that were putting on in corruption and those mortal who were physically alive who were given immortality.)
54 So when this corruptible (Those who were physically dead) has put on incorruption (Immortality), and this mortal (Those physically alive) has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death (spiritual death) is swallowed up in victory."
55 "O Death (spiritual death), where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?" (O grave, where is your victory for those who had physically died and were waiting for the last day resurrection of their (spirits/souls)
56 The sting of (spiritual) death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

If the resurrection was an earthly event, Then that would contradict 1 Corinthians 15:44 and Colossians 1:18

Now, for those that deny the resurrection has not happened, Where are you going to get raptured to Hades?
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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#47
Can you please explain what you mean by contradict Col. 1: 18 & 1 Cor. 15: 44?
 

Diakonos

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Jan 19, 2019
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#48
The False Teaching of what happens at the Rapture.

I believe people have been taught through preaching, books, videos etc a wrong view of what happens at the Rapture.

This false teaching says that when people are caught away to meet the Lord others will see them rise in the air, and great devastation will happen. Planes will fall out of the sky as Christian pilots are taken away, plus cars and buses, trains etc will all crash because their drivers were believers and were caught away.

People are told that unbelievers will be shocked and horrified as they realise they have been `left behind.`

None of this is a true picture, I believe, of what will really happen at the rapture.

The Truth of what will happen at the Rapture.

God`s word says that we will see that Day, (of the Lord) approaching and thus get together more.

`...exhorting, (encouraging and warning) one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

I believe the Holy Spirit will be stirring our spirits expectantly so that we know the time is very close.

`To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear...` (Heb. 9: 28)

In the world people will think WW 3 is happening. The Russian Federation plus Iran, Ethiopia and Libya, (Ez. 38: 1 - 5) will be brought down by God to the mountains of Israel for judgment. The amassing of those troops will be very plain to see. Even now there is movement in those nations. People of the world will be looking at their phones, TV, etc in great fear of a nuclear World War.

The Lockdowns due to a supposed pandemic will keep people separate from others. Most will only be concerned with getting supplies, (which may be limited) and returning home.

Then when those who are eagerly waiting and looking for the Lord are taken, their bodies will be changed and there will be nothing left to indicate where they are. If some people do notice that so and so is not around there are many reasons for that - gone into a covid quarantine camp, visiting relatives, gone on holiday, etc etc.

Have you ever thought about this?
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.
It sounds like the main significant difference between the "false teaching" and "truth" you are contrasting concerns whether the remaining world will notice the Church's departure.

Is that correct?
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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#50
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.
It sounds like the main significant difference between the "false teaching" and "truth" you are contrasting concerns whether the remaining world will notice the Church's departure.

Is that correct?
That would be one reason. Also, that the believers that are eagerly waiting are not overtaken as a thief as many think. Another reason is that God is not judging people or letting them be collateral when He catches away His Body.

I think that it is God`s motive that is on trial there, as in all of deception.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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#51
That would be one reason. Also, that the believers that are eagerly waiting are not overtaken as a thief as many think. Another reason is that God is not judging people or letting them be collateral when He catches away His Body.

I think that it is God`s motive that is on trial there, as in all of deception.

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Obviously no one FROM HEAVEN is worried about HELL coming against the church.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Again, no need for the church, (the one built on the earth) to leave earth as this shows it is already connected.

Matthew 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. 21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Here is an EXAMPLE set for us to follow OURS looking more like 'go into tribulation, suffer many things of the deceiver, be killed and be raised'. GOD Himself did it so why would less be expected of the final generation?

Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

WOULDN'T the 'escape' from GREAT tribulation, FALL under the same kind of offence? What purpose does TAKING the CHURCH from the earth serve EXCEPT FOR THE CHURCH? It doesn't serve any purpose for God ESPECIALLY since 'not all could go as one body' since some must remain. WHO IS DIVIDING THE BODY OF CHRIST?

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for My sake shall find it.


What would be the EXACT opposite of the statement Christ just made?


A doctrine that says divide what you SUFFERED to bring together, so SOME can 'fly away to safety', away from great tribulation, before made to suffer or killed or tried, the ONLY GROUP who could POSSIBLY endure to the end

so
we don't die or suffer or be tested or be judged and just wait it out till it is over and then return to gather OUR BRETHREN WHO DID so we can receive all the same rewards as those who did.


Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us

No need for church as we are already represented

Hebrews 9:25 Nor yet that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others 26 For then must He often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

True or false?
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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#52
Now, for those that deny the resurrection has not happened

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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#53
Shakespeare said, "there are a thousand Hamlets in the eyes of a thousand viewers."
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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#54
WOULDN'T the 'escape' from GREAT tribulation, FALL under the same kind of offence? What purpose does TAKING the CHURCH from the earth serve EXCEPT FOR THE CHURCH? It doesn't serve any purpose for God ESPECIALLY since 'not all could go as one body' since some must remain. WHO IS DIVIDING THE BODY OF CHRIST?
The whole Body will be gathered together and taken to Christ`s own throne where they will rule with the Lord - judging the world system and fallen angels, (Rev. 3: 21, 1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

God has great purposes and the Body of Christ is but part of that. All realms of authority need to come under the Lordship of Christ and those whom God has planned to serve there, will, under Christ.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#55
ALL rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.

So simple.
LOL - Just like in the Days of Noah = Everyone loving one another and walking around with flowers in their hair.

So many flowers were uprooted in the Peaceful and Normal days of Noah that God became full of anger and wrath and then drowned all flesh on earth leaving behind just 8 Souls to repopulate the earth.

I couldn't imagine living at a better time......................
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#56
Hi CS1,

The 12 disciples never fully understood the revelation that the Lord gave to the Apostle Paul. Remember that they only taught that Jesus was Lord and the Christ, (Acts 2: 36). And Peter was trying to get the Gentile believers to be like Jews. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14). Their promised inheritance is to be the rulers over the 12 tribes of Israel. (Matt. 19: 28) They were always looking for the Lord to bring His rulership (kingdom) through Israel on earth. (Acts 1: 6)
have you ever read Peter 1 and 2 ? It’s all there the same as Paul there’s absolutely no difference in Paul and the other eleven apostles

John actually received as much of not more revelation than paul.

the gospel of John for instance is the most edifying book in scriptire pertaining to Christ be his divinity and eternal Identity. About the eternal aithority of his word ect the epistles don’t compare to the gospels

But to discuss what did Paul teach about that the others didn’t ?
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#57
LOL - Just like in the Days of Noah = Everyone loving one another and walking around with flowers in their hair.

So many flowers were uprooted in the Peaceful and Normal days of Noah that God became full of anger and wrath and then drowned all flesh on earth leaving behind just 8 Souls to repopulate the earth.

I couldn't imagine living at a better time......................
“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Sudden for some because they haven’t believed the gospel and heard the truth but those who are watching as the lord taught us to do

“But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul Is just preaching the gospel

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:31-37‬ ‭

it’s odd he would prepare believers for these things if they aren’t going to be there
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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#58
have you ever read Peter 1 and 2 ? It’s all there the same as Paul there’s absolutely no difference in Paul and the other eleven apostles

John actually received as much of not more revelation than paul.

the gospel of John for instance is the most edifying book in scriptire pertaining to Christ be his divinity and eternal Identity. About the eternal aithority of his word ect the epistles don’t compare to the gospels

But to discuss what did Paul teach about that the others didn’t ?
Hi Pilgrim,

Yes Peter wrote by the Holy Spirit about the Lord Jesus Christ, but NOT about the Body of Christ. Peter even said that what Paul wrote was `some things hard to understand.` (2 Peter 3: 16)

And yes John wrote by the Holy Spirit concerning Christ overseeing the Churches he would know in Asia Minor. However He did not understand that they were the Body of Christ set together in Christ. (1 Cor. 12: 18)

Paul`s epistles (by the Holy Spirit from the Lord) reveal Christ at work building and maturing His Body from the Father`s Throne. And that is where the Father made Jesus the Head of His Body `far above all, with all power and authority and might and dominion and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come and out all things under His feet...` (Eph. 1: 21 - 23)



 
Aug 2, 2021
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#59
Hi Pilgrim,

Yes Peter wrote by the Holy Spirit about the Lord Jesus Christ, but NOT about the Body of Christ. Peter even said that what Paul wrote was `some things hard to understand.` (2 Peter 3: 16)

And yes John wrote by the Holy Spirit concerning Christ overseeing the Churches he would know in Asia Minor. However He did not understand that they were the Body of Christ set together in Christ. (1 Cor. 12: 18)

Paul`s epistles (by the Holy Spirit from the Lord) reveal Christ at work building and maturing His Body from the Father`s Throne. And that is where the Father made Jesus the Head of His Body `far above all, with all power and authority and might and dominion and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come and out all things under His feet...` (Eph. 1: 21 - 23)
God is the Author and His Holy Spirit directed the hearts & Minds of the Apostles what to write.

The Book is a Love Letter from Christ to His Bride which HE calls the 'Elect'.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#60
Hi Pilgrim,

Yes Peter wrote by the Holy Spirit about the Lord Jesus Christ, but NOT about the Body of Christ. Peter even said that what Paul wrote was `some things hard to understand.` (2 Peter 3: 16)

And yes John wrote by the Holy Spirit concerning Christ overseeing the Churches he would know in Asia Minor. However He did not understand that they were the Body of Christ set together in Christ. (1 Cor. 12: 18)

Paul`s epistles (by the Holy Spirit from the Lord) reveal Christ at work building and maturing His Body from the Father`s Throne. And that is where the Father made Jesus the Head of His Body `far above all, with all power and authority and might and dominion and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come and out all things under His feet...` (Eph. 1: 21 - 23)
“Yes Peter wrote by the Holy Spirit about the Lord Jesus Christ, but NOT about the Body of Christ. Peter even said that what Paul wrote was `some things hard to understand.`”

the body of Christ is the church Peter wrote tones about it they use different words to convey y he r same messages of Jesus. The apostles were men they had different ways of speaking and conveying those revelations Paul eas a Roman citizen educated much more than the others and wrote beautifully

but the message is the same one Jesus preached but further revealed by the apostles all of them paul is equal to them all even though he was chosen later but Paul is not greater of more important than any of them they are all members of the same team d thier messages require the others to be complete

Peter is to the point , Paul will go on and on about something John speaks from a whole different angle than the others ect they all have different attributes and strengths

but what I’m saying is they all are speaking from the spirit of Christ the same things they were writing to the same church like that passage you pointed out


“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice how they are both teaching the same group ? Peter isn’t disparaging Paul’s writings but embracing them and warning them that Paul’s pretty wordy so you really have to look and see what he’s saying

Peter and Paul were writing to the same church the same message of grace , faith , patience , endurance in the gospel preaching the same kingdom

Peter says things paul doesn’t say Paul says things Peter doesn’t say but the message comes together as one from Jesus

for instance Paul could have written this


“Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and in fact he actually does wrote those same things differently using different wording and examples but the message itself is the same and goes together

Peter could have written this

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


just like this forum people have learned to express words and thoughts in different words and ways but often the same things are communicated

John to me stands out as different sort of like he’s looking from a different plain of understanding like he’s not really speaking from earths perspective but with a view from heaven

they all have that quality d all should be received because Thy per message is part of the same one found in Matthew mark Luke and John

anyways thanks for the chat !!!
 
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