The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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How bizarre.
Tell us what they are commanded to watch and wait for?
Tell us how the setting is not before the flood.
Are we going back into " the white bird does not say "white bird" on it, so it can not be a white bird"
Postrib rapture workbook is a very thin book.
Does your vivid imagination iclude horses with hooves?
Because no where does it say the white horses have hooves.
That is the rediculous nothing burgers you bring to the debate.
Your "big guns" are "prove a negative, c'mon, prove it"
Tell us what they are commanded to watch and wait for?
Tell us how the setting is not before the flood.
Are we going back into " the white bird does not say "white bird" on it, so it can not be a white bird"
Postrib rapture workbook is a very thin book.
Does your vivid imagination iclude horses with hooves?
Because no where does it say the white horses have hooves.
That is the rediculous nothing burgers you bring to the debate.
Your "big guns" are "prove a negative, c'mon, prove it"
Of course we know not the day or the hour as Jesus said only our father in heaven knows that but what I do is follow the sequence of occurrences from Matthew 24 he says this will happen than that and then that and then that and then you’ll see the sign of the Son of Man coming in the clouds so read Matthew 24 that’s what I am following in fact recently went all Covid started the Holy Spirit spoke to me that we were in the beginning of sorrows which is listed in chapter 24 of Matthew . So when all these things take place that’s when Jesus will be coming together’s holy
bride which is the first resurrection.
Matthew 24
King James Version
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
bride which is the first resurrection.
Matthew 24
King James Version
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Of course we know not the day or the hour as Jesus said only our father in heaven knows that but what I do is follow the sequence of occurrences from Matthew 24 he says this will happen than that and then that and then that and then you’ll see the sign of the Son of Man coming in the clouds so read Matthew 24 that’s what I am following in fact recently went all Covid started the Holy Spirit spoke to me that we were in the beginning of sorrows which is listed in chapter 24 of Matthew . So when all these things take place that’s when Jesus will be coming together’s holy
bride which is the first resurrection.
Matthew 24
King James Version
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
bride which is the first resurrection.
Matthew 24
King James Version
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
I have been waiting for a verse pointing to such an event for years.
And that supposed verse needs to invalidate the solid pretrib rapture verses
That's the thing about a Doctrine that places the Rapture of the church post-tribulation.
That supposed verse or proof needs to somehow invalidate the pre-trib Rapture verses.
I find it amazing that a post-trib Rapture Doctrine ever got any traction at all.
When I see people trying to defend that notion without any verses, not a single one, it makes me wonder .....what are they doing?????
That supposed verse or proof needs to somehow invalidate the pre-trib Rapture verses.
I find it amazing that a post-trib Rapture Doctrine ever got any traction at all.
When I see people trying to defend that notion without any verses, not a single one, it makes me wonder .....what are they doing?????
Reread it.
Jesus is not gathering
Angels are gathering in heaven.
Take a look at acts 1.
Your scenario of horses and Jesus as a warrior, with a destroyed planet and warczone, as well as people worshipping the antichrist with satan tattoed on every human's forehead on the planet.
Compare that to how Jesus is prophesied to return in acts 1
No contest
Jesus is not gathering
Angels are gathering in heaven.
Take a look at acts 1.
Your scenario of horses and Jesus as a warrior, with a destroyed planet and warczone, as well as people worshipping the antichrist with satan tattoed on every human's forehead on the planet.
Compare that to how Jesus is prophesied to return in acts 1
No contest
Jackson123 said:
Rapture happen immediately after tribulation so after tribulation not repent one left
Well, you've already seen them. Were your eyes closed?
2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (Second Advent) and our being gathered to him, (resurrection and rapture) we ask you, brothers and sisters,
Can you show that this is not talking about the Second Advent and the single resurrection with gathering of living believers?
You haven't yet.
Rapture happen immediately after tribulation so after tribulation not repent one left
Well, you've already seen them. Were your eyes closed?
2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (Second Advent) and our being gathered to him, (resurrection and rapture) we ask you, brothers and sisters,
Can you show that this is not talking about the Second Advent and the single resurrection with gathering of living believers?
You haven't yet.
FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible teaches only ONE resurrection of the saved. Not "phases" of resurrections.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Please count how many phases of resurrections you find in this verse. Same for all these verses:
Read v.5. Says so plainly.
Right. Jesus ends that battle on His return at the Second Advent.
And it surely does destroy the false pretrip rapture theory.
btw, how many resurrections of believers can you show in Scripture? Please cite all that you find.
The Bible teaches only ONE resurrection of the saved. Not "phases" of resurrections.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Please count how many phases of resurrections you find in this verse. Same for all these verses:
Read v.5. Says so plainly.
Right. Jesus ends that battle on His return at the Second Advent.
And it surely does destroy the false pretrip rapture theory.
btw, how many resurrections of believers can you show in Scripture? Please cite all that you find.
How about this: First, you explain what 2 Thess 2:1 is referring to.
Then, show me how many resurrections for the saved you find in Scripture.
Finally, please please please show me any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.
If you don't do these things, why should I answer anything of yours?
Then, show me how many resurrections for the saved you find in Scripture.
Finally, please please please show me any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.
If you don't do these things, why should I answer anything of yours?
FreeGrace2 said:
Again, you are only applying your opinions, assumptions, presumptions to a verse that SAYS NOTHING about a rapture.
Again, where is the verse that SHOWS Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.
You know as well as I do that there is no such verse. So, "without a doubt" the Bible DOESN'T teach a pretrib rapture.
That's what I'm wondering as well. I keep asking for the primo verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, which would VALIDATE your view, but you just keep ignoring my request.
Why are you hiding the ONLY verse that WOULD validate your view? How bizarre.
Workbook? I don't need a workbook like the pretribbers. I have the Bible, which states very clearly WHEN the so-called rapture occurs.
2 Thess 2:1. You know, the verse that you won't touch with a 30' pole.
I don't need an imagination to understand what the Bible says. Unlike your view, since you still haven't shared that primo verse showing Jesus taking believers to heaven after resurrection/rapture.
I already have proved what the Bible says clearly.
Unlike your view, which you CANNOT prove because you and everyone else KNOWS there are NO verses showing Jesus taking anyone to heaven after resurrecting and rapturing people.
Again, you are only applying your opinions, assumptions, presumptions to a verse that SAYS NOTHING about a rapture.
Again, where is the verse that SHOWS Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.
You know as well as I do that there is no such verse. So, "without a doubt" the Bible DOESN'T teach a pretrib rapture.
That's what I'm wondering as well. I keep asking for the primo verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, which would VALIDATE your view, but you just keep ignoring my request.
Why are you hiding the ONLY verse that WOULD validate your view? How bizarre.
Workbook? I don't need a workbook like the pretribbers. I have the Bible, which states very clearly WHEN the so-called rapture occurs.
2 Thess 2:1. You know, the verse that you won't touch with a 30' pole.
I don't need an imagination to understand what the Bible says. Unlike your view, since you still haven't shared that primo verse showing Jesus taking believers to heaven after resurrection/rapture.
I already have proved what the Bible says clearly.
Unlike your view, which you CANNOT prove because you and everyone else KNOWS there are NO verses showing Jesus taking anyone to heaven after resurrecting and rapturing people.
Unlike your view, it is actually EASY to defend. 2 Thess 2:1 is the clear proof.
One must open eyes when truth is presented.
While we're at it, where is that primo verse showing Jesus taking people to heaven after the resurrection/rapture?
What do you mean by "solid"? The ONLY really solid verse for pretrib would be one that shows Jesus taking people to heaven after the resurrection and rapture.
Which you don't have, btw.
One must open eyes when truth is presented.
While we're at it, where is that primo verse showing Jesus taking people to heaven after the resurrection/rapture?
What do you mean by "solid"? The ONLY really solid verse for pretrib would be one that shows Jesus taking people to heaven after the resurrection and rapture.
Which you don't have, btw.
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