The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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Dec 29, 2021
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Do you get all that omission dynamic naturally ,or do you intentionally work at it?


Yes of course.
If you omit and pull in your selective verses....POOOOF! You can easily make it up.

Just convince yourself and go for it.

I am not here to play your games.
LOOK WHOSE TALKING ABOUT YANKING VERSES OUT FROM LEFT FIELD AND TRYING TO MAKE THEM VALID, THAT WOULD BE YOU!!
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Do you ever trade doctrine back and forth?
( present what YOUR position is and challenge rebuttal?)
All i see from you is "prove it".
Then we both know 50 verses are going to be met with some scoffing "prove it further".

I am 100% ready to mix it up with ANYONE ANYTIME.

But it they are playing games...go do it somewhere else.
Then Prove at the Second Coming, those Gathered, are 100% ALIVE!
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Anytime you want to debate, go for it.
Get a bible and lets go.
Why, so we can watch how you take a Verse that has one meaning and try to make it into a False Doctrine with a new meaning?

We have already witnessed that for 50+ pages!
 
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I never said I agreed with the Article I posted.
I said I posted it because he does know the Greek better than most on this Thread and explains how it means AIR, not Heavens!
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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PAUL DIDN’T BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE. NEITHER DID JESUS. NEITHER SHOULD YOU.
In Theology by Kurt Willems

The rapture.
This is still one of the most influential beliefs in pockets of Christianity.
The old mantra goes, “this world is not my home, I’m just passing through.”
But is that true? Are we just sort of stuck here until something apocalyptic happens like the second coming of Christ, the rise of the anti-Christ, and a rapture?
Of course, this belief is usually combined with something that gets referred to as the Great Tribulation.
Although I won’t have time in a single article, I want to demonstrate what I’ve come to understand of bothJesus and Paul: neither of them taught or believed in something like a rapture.[clickToTweet tweet=”Neither Jesus or Paul taught or believed in something like a rapture.” quote=”Jesus and Paul: neither of them taught or believed in something like a rapture”]
I’m going to invite you to consider whether or not you should believe in the rapture either.
PAUL’S “RAPTURE”
The famous “rapture” passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4.15-17 and reads:
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.​
This passage, when placed in the larger context of the chapter, is answering questions that Christians in Thessalonica had concerning death. What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny?
Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth. Not an escape into the sky (on this point, see especially 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 8).
“AIR” DOESN’T MEAN “WAY UP IN THE SKY”
Nowhere does this passage make a claim about an escape into the sky. In fact, the Greek word for “air” (which many Christian interpreters have associated with “sky”) that Paul uses is interesting in and of itself. It looks like this—ἀήρ—and means in Greek:
1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air 2)the atmospheric region[1]​
Notice the important point: this sort of “air” is the “lower” region of the atmosphere, specifically differentiated from the “higher and rarer air.” The Greek word οὐρανός (often translated “heaven”) has a different meaning when used as “air” than ἀήρ.
Rather than referring to the “lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air,” it means:
1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it
  1. a. the universe, the world
  2. b. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
  3. c. the sidereal or starry heavens
2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings[2]
Just for fun, I want to break down this word a bit. [By the way, I’m not using any fancy books to do this. These sorts of tools can be used online, even for folks with little familiarity with Greek. I link this stuff below.]
  • Acts 22:23
    …εἰς τὸν ἀέρ
    …dust into the air,
  • 1Co 9:26
    …ὡς οὐκ ἀέρα δέρων·
    …one that beateth the air:
  • 1Co 14:9
    …γὰρ εἰς ἀέρα λαλοῦντες.
    …shall speak into the air.
  • Eph 2:2
    …ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος…
    …power of the air, the spirit that…
  • 1Th 4:17
    …κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως…
    …the Lord in the air: and so shall…
  • Rev 9:2
    …καὶ ὁ ἀὴρ ἐκ τοῦ…
    …sun and the air were darkened by…
  • Rev 16:17
    …ἐπὶ τὸν ἀέρα καὶ ἐξῆλθεν…
    …vial into the air; and there came…
It seems that the difference between these two words matters for our study. The word in the 1 Thessalonians text indicates the “air” of the “lower” region as opposed to the “heavens” as οὐρανός can also be translated (heavens – 24x, heavenly – 1, heaven – 218).
In other words, Paul had an option to use either of the words to talk about the “air” but he chose to use the word that refers mostly to the lower atmospheric region.
This should already make us wonder.
But, it isn’t enough to win us over yet. Because there remains a series mixed metaphors that need to be addressed. Even more than the word “air,” these are what contribute to a “rapture” reading of Paul.
We will find that Paul never had in mind a future event where Christians would be evacuated out of this planet. And this has nothing to do about the timing of such an event.
Paul never imagined a pre-, mid-, or post- Tribulation rapture. Why? Well, because just like Jesus, he had no concept of a way distant future Great Tribulation. More on that in a moment. Let’s consider Paul’s challenging language before we jump ahead, briefly, to Jesus.
I know you posted this because the author expounded upon "...κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως… …the Lord in the air: and so shall…" and I agree with that, it's certainly the Earth's atmosphere.

Jesus' resurrection and ascension to the heavens (the abode of God) involved passing through the Earth's atmosphere, literally traversing space, untold miles, en route to the Right Hand of God. The resurrection and rapture that saints will go through are an image of that.

My view is while saints will "...meet the Lord in the air..." they will not remain there idly for thousands of years twiddling their thumbs and telling knock-knock jokes to pass time. They will continues a journey, perhaps even divinely (or supernaturally) crossing into some place outside of the known physical universe where God dwells.

Last minute edit...
John 14:3-4
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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I know you posted this because the author expounded upon "...κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως… …the Lord in the air: and so shall…" and I agree with that, it's certainly the Earth's atmosphere.

Jesus' resurrection and ascension to the heavens (the abode of God) involved passing through the Earth's atmosphere, literally traversing space, untold miles, en route to the Right Hand of God. The resurrection and rapture that saints will go through are an image of that.

My view is while saints will "...meet the Lord in the air..." they will not remain there idly for thousands of years twiddling their thumbs and telling knock-knock jokes to pass time. They will continues a journey, perhaps even divinely (or supernaturally) crossing into some place outside of the known physical universe where God dwells.
Amen!

That's why we have Revelation 16:15-16

Christ comes like a Thief, Gathers us, then next Verse we are at Armageddon.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Some guy that is into evolution and pushing the agenda of the left is no place to gain some definition of " air".
I would not give a nickle for any such advice from that heretic.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Some guy that is into evolution and pushing the agenda of the left is no place to gain some definition of " air".
I would not give a nickle for any such advice from that heretic.
There is no Agenda, if you knew Greek you would see it for yourself!
 
Jul 23, 2018
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There is no Agenda, if you knew Greek you would see it for yourself!
Then just get it from online greek.
You polluted a entire page with his baloney.

Then I call it out and you and your buddies throw a fit
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Then just get it from online greek.
You polluted a entire page with his baloney.

Then I call it out and you and your buddies throw a fit
Online Greek?

That is Classical Greek like the Bible you use, not Koine Greek.

Get it online :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Heaven_Bound......now iggy bound. I've had about all I can stand.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Amen!

That's why we have Revelation 16:15-16

Christ comes like a Thief, Gathers us, then next Verse we are at Armageddon.
ok, you really want to go chronologically ACCORDING to those verses?we have jesus " coming as a thief", obviously referring to the rapture.

However, according to that strict chronology the rapture is at the 6th seal.
THEN THE SEVENTH LATER.

Rev 16
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

SO ...you presented a mid trib model now?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I know you posted this because the author expounded upon "...κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως… …the Lord in the air: and so shall…" and I agree with that, it's certainly the Earth's atmosphere.

Jesus' resurrection and ascension to the heavens (the abode of God) involved passing through the Earth's atmosphere, literally traversing space, untold miles, en route to the Right Hand of God. The resurrection and rapture that saints will go through are an image of that.

My view is while saints will "...meet the Lord in the air..." they will not remain there idly for thousands of years twiddling their thumbs and telling knock-knock jokes to pass time. They will continues a journey, perhaps even divinely (or supernaturally) crossing into some place outside of the known physical universe where God dwells.

Last minute edit...
John 14:3-4
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
yes i agree
Definately a pretrib rapture to heaven.
Thanks.
 
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