The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[TheDivineWatermark]

So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.
"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:
"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."
He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

"3 ...so that in whatever place I am, there ye may be also." (the very next verse saying, "4 And to the place I am going, ye know the way.") Don't forget the verse which states, (Jn3:13) "... even the Son of man WHICH/WHO IS IN HEAVEN" (present tense; but He stated this while standing on the earth )




Anyway, on to my point:

Some of us believe "the man child" of Rev12:5 / "the male [G730 - arsena / arren]" of Rev12:13 IS "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (not speaking of Jesus Christ exclusively).,, "the woman which HAD BROUGHT FORTH THE MALE [G730 - arsena / arren]" Rev12:13, where verse 5 says, and her child was "CAUGHT UP [G726 - harpazo] TO GOD AND TO HIS THRONE"


...and where the FIRST PART OF THAT VERSE speaks of "who shall rule all the nations with an iron sceptre," but bear also in mind what Rev2:26-27 had already said, "[he that overcometh (that's the SAVED, as I'd mentioned)]... to him will I give power/authority over the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod/sceptre of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: EVEN AS I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER"






So, Rev12:13's "[the woman] which HAD BROUGHT FORTH the male [G730]" speaks of the male having been born PRIOR TO this mid-trib point in the chronology, that is the general chpt 12 setting; and these verses about "the man child / the male [G730]" correspond with:


Micah 5:3 (whereas v.2 speaks of Jesus' OWN birth, verse 3 does NOT) -

Berean Study Bible [to help show context]
Therefore Israel will be abandoned until she who is in labor has given birth; then the rest of His brothers will return to the children of Israel.

King James Bible
Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.



[colors showing the 3 distinct persons of BOTH this Micah 5:3 text and the Rev12:5,13,[17] text to which it corresponds]

 

[Absolutely]

I know that is what you believe because I was taught that as a child growing up in church. But, thankfully I became to a place in life where I allowed the Holy Spirit to give me translation over man made idealism.

....and found teachers thet OMIT our verses.

Yeah you really found high ground huh?

 

[Absolutely]

FreeGrace2 said:
Speaking of which, what about the opinion that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven, but there is zero evidence from Scripture showing that?

Since there are NO verses showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, of course the "omission dynamic" naturally falls on YOU.


Thanks for agreeing!


What am I making up? 2 Thess 2:1 and Rev 20:5 very clearly shows WHEN the singular resurrection of believers will occur; at the Second Advent.


I'm convinced by what the Bible says. Unlike yourself.


?? Then why is that ALL you SEEM TO DO?

Have you ever just looked at eschatology without that disdain for us and the pretrib doctrine?

All you do is follow and muddy up the pretrib doctrine.

You have no verses
We can clearly see your prejudice and the failure to present or defend a counter doctrine.

Maybe you are postrib?

I dont know what you believe.

All you seem to know is we are somehow wrong.
You seem also to not know why... Just obsessed with muddying up the rapture.

"""Since there are NO verses showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, of course the "omission dynamic" naturally falls on YOU."""

This is your sacred cow. You just assume it and unbelievably CONSTRUCT YOUR ENTIRE DOCTRINE off a negative.

""" Show me one verse where Jesus brushed his teeth. Ha ha ...you cant...therefore he never did"""

Then all your buddies ( heaven bound) follow you in yalls big celebration.

Just pure insanity. Keep fooling yourself that old tire you hooked is a monster catfish.

.....and it is!!!!
It really is!!!!!


We would all faint if you guys ever made a valid point.

Psssst....we KNOW he takes them to heaven

Psssst...the verses have been posted.

I know...I know.... We have no "proof "wink wink.

It is proven hands down OJ is innocent.
He is.
Right?

Prove that wrong.

See anybody can get on that vain nothingburger.

You guys FEED off it.

Sad

 

[Absolutely]

Look at these 3 Verses you posted:

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.


1. Second Coming/Gathering = Verse 15

2. Verse 16 Battle at Armageddon

3. Verse 17 = This is Satan being defeated and Bound for 1,000 years before Judgement Day.

lol
You omitted vs 15

Wow

Hilarious.

Wink wink...I know...I know....you guys never omit rapture verses.

Too funny!!!!

 

[Absolutely]

Hosea 13:9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in Me is thine help.

10 I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes?

11 I gave thee a king in Mine anger, and took him away in My wrath.

12 The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid.

13 The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon him: he is an unwise son; for he should not stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children.

14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

THAT IS AT HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION


THIS IS AT THE END OF THE MILLENNIUM

Isaiah 25:6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.
10 For in this mountain shall the hand of the LORD rest, and Moab shall be trodden down under him, even as straw is trodden down for the dunghill.
11 And he shall spread forth his hands in the midst of them, as he that swimmeth spreadeth forth his hands to swim: and he shall bring down their pride together with the spoils of their hands.
12 And the fortress of the high fort of thy walls shall he bring down, lay low, and bring to the ground, even to the dust.





Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, Who hath raised Him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, HATH HE QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH HIM , having forgiven you all trespasses
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

4806. suzóopoieó
Strong's Concordance
suzóopoieó: to make alive together with
Original Word: συζωοποιέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: suzóopoieó
Phonetic Spelling: (sood-zo-op-oy-eh'-o)
Definition: to make alive together with
Usage: I make alive together with.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, AND MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS
7 That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.




Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore He saith, WHEN HE ASCENDED UP ON HIGH HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE , and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Great pretrib rapture verses.
Thanks!

 

[Absolutely]

WHAT IS THE SUBJECT?

CAN I FOLLOW YOU? NOT NOW, BUT LATER. WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO BE? HEAVEN. I'LL COME MEET YOU WHEN YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY AND I WILL BRING YOU TO THE FATHER.

YET, when Christ is returning

We FOLLOW Him back TO EARTH when He does DESCEND IN LIKE MANNER AS THEY SAW HIM LEAVE, as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. In a cloud. With saints and angels and martyrs THE DAY OF VENGENCE. THE LORDS DAY. The Millennium. The 1000 years as a day. The 1000 years Satan is bound. The day as 1000 years.

So Christ isn't speaking ABOUT HIM DESCENDING He is speaking about meeting us when we RISE. No where does it speak of Christ DESCENDING, Remember, NO ONE COMETH TO THE FATHER BUT BY CHRIST.


So WHERE this 'CHRIST IS LEAVING HEAVEN' can ONLY COME FROM some XXXXX doctrine that needs to have it some other way, OTHER THAN WHAT IS WRITTEN.

FOLLOW AFTER. TO BE WHERE HE IS. COMETH TO THE FATHER. Our Father WHICH ART IN HEAVEN.
Common sense should be applied to the words of God.

What is the struggle?


Spiritually, Heavenly.

1 In the house of the Father of Me mansions many there are if now not would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

2 And if I go 4198 and prepare 2090 a place 5117 for you again I am coming and will receive 3880 you to Myself that where am I also you may be

4198. poreuomai ►
Strong's Concordance
poreuomai: to go
Original Word: πορεύομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: poreuomai
Phonetic Spelling: (por-yoo'-om-ahee)
Definition: to go
Usage: I travel, journey, go, die.
HELPS Word-studies
4198 poreúomai (from poros, "passageway") – properly, to transport, moving something from one destination (port) to another; (figuratively) to go or depart, emphasizing the personal meaning which is attached to reaching the particular destination.

2090 hetoimázō – prepare, make (made) ready. See 2092 (hetoimos).

5117. topos
Strong's Concordance
topos: a place
Original Word: τόπος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: topos
Phonetic Spelling: (top'-os)
Definition: a place
Usage: a place, region, seat; an opportunity.

2064. erchomai ►
Strong's Concordance
erchomai: to come, go
Original Word: ἔρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: erchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-khom-ahee)
Definition: to come, go
Usage: I come, go.

3880. paralambanó ►
Strong's Concordance
paralambanó: to receive from
Original Word: παραλαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: paralambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (par-al-am-ban'-o)
Definition: to receive from
Usage: I take from, receive from, or: I take to, receive (apparently not used of money), admit, acknowledge; I take with me.


no snatching away, no descending, no horses, no armies, no clouds, no return, no trumpets,



1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead,
how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

DOES THAT MEAN

1. ONE DAY, SOME DAY, THERE EVENTUALLY WILL BE A RESURRECTION? no
2. THERE IS GOING TO BE A RESURRECTION BUT ONLY SOMEDAY? no
3. THERE WILL BE IN THE FUTURE SOME TIME A RESURRECTION? no
4. THERE WILL BE A RESURRECTION ON THE LAST DAY no
5. THERE ISN'T A RESURRECTION NOW, NOW BUT THERE WILL BE LATER no
6. THERE IS A RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD PRESENTLY yes


13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ: whom He raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised

1Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.


1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

yes
After the pretrib rapture we are in heaven, mount Horses as does Jesus, and follow him back to earth.

No brainer.

 

[Absolutely]

It isn't about pre trib rapture AND IT ISN'T ABOUT THE SECOND ADVENT EITHER.


IT IS ABOUT THE WORK ON THE CROSS AND WHAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED FOR THE 'SAVED'.

Saved from WHAT? DEATH.

it's about whether or not DEATH is reigning OVER THOSE WHO HAVE RECEIVED THE GIFT OF SALVATION or IF GRACE is reigning over those who have received the gift of SALVATION.

We KNOW DEATH reigns over the UNSAVED don't we. They ARE WITH THEIR SIN. THEY never DIED with Christ. They were never raised with Christ. They were never washed clean of sin. They are with spot and with blemish and they CHOOSE DEATH.

WE have chosen LIFE. We have died with Christ. We have been raised with Christ. We have received the gift of Salvation, eternal life. We have no spot. We have no blemish. We have been washed clean. We are THEREFORE RAISED WITH HIS DEAD BODY. WE NEVER SEE DEATH. WE RETURN WITH CHRIST.

EITHER you believe that DEATH is more powerful than CHRIST or you don't.

EITHER you believe He went to heaven or you don't.

Either you believe He defeated death or you don't.

You either believe that He went to prepare a place for us or you don't

You either believe that He will come RECEIVE us or you don't

You either believe that we will be with Him until He (and us along with Him) returns or you don't.

BUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE JOHN 14 SAYS or doesn't IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PRE TRIB RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH or 2nd Advent.


BUT HERE WE ARE TOLD THE WORDS IN WHICH WE ARE TO COMFORT ONE ANOTHER AND WE DON'T FIND COMFORT IN DEATH, EVER.


1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1Thessalonians 4:10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more

1Thessalonians 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you

1Thessalonians 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE/SLEEP.


1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

DO WE believe that Jesus DIED AND ROSE AGAIN? yes we do.

Do WE believe that JUST LIKE Jesus who died and rose again THAT THOSE WHO SLEEP (the even so them) died AND ROSE AGAIN?


THERE WILL BE SOULS ALIVE AND WALKING ON THE EARTH ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL THE RETURN OF CHRIST

NONE OF THOSE 'even the alive and remaining'

WILL PREVENT THOSE WHO HAVE DIED from INSTANTLY BEING WITH THE LORD.

Just like the 'alive and remaining' will be CHANGED IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, and instantly be with the Lord, so to the ones who fall asleep/die.

(that is all it takes to PUT ON OUR NEW BODY TO BE WITH THE LORD.)

DOESN'T MATTER IF THE FLESH VESSEL HAS TAKEN ITS LAST BREATH or if the vessel is still breathing, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE ALL ARE CHANGED

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,

that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord


shall not prevent them which are asleep


FROM INSTANTLY GOING TO BE WITH THE LORD.

pretty close.

We are raptured pretrib as the bible says, and go to heaven.
We see Jesus prophesy that at the last supper.

We see the church in heaven and has become the wife in heaven in rev 19.

We see the rapture in acts 1
Mat 25 and 24
1 thes 4

And the jews gathered last at rev 14.
(Which is depicted at Jesus' first miracle. ".....but you saved the best for last")

 

[Absolutely]

It isn't about pre trib rapture AND IT ISN'T ABOUT THE SECOND ADVENT EITHER.


IT IS ABOUT THE WORK ON THE CROSS AND WHAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED FOR THE 'SAVED'.

Saved from WHAT? DEATH.

it's about whether or not DEATH is reigning OVER THOSE WHO HAVE RECEIVED THE GIFT OF SALVATION or IF GRACE is reigning over those who have received the gift of SALVATION.

We KNOW DEATH reigns over the UNSAVED don't we. They ARE WITH THEIR SIN. THEY never DIED with Christ. They were never raised with Christ. They were never washed clean of sin. They are with spot and with blemish and they CHOOSE DEATH.

WE have chosen LIFE. We have died with Christ. We have been raised with Christ. We have received the gift of Salvation, eternal life. We have no spot. We have no blemish. We have been washed clean. We are THEREFORE RAISED WITH HIS DEAD BODY. WE NEVER SEE DEATH. WE RETURN WITH CHRIST.

EITHER you believe that DEATH is more powerful than CHRIST or you don't.

EITHER you believe He went to heaven or you don't.

Either you believe He defeated death or you don't.

You either believe that He went to prepare a place for us or you don't

You either believe that He will come RECEIVE us or you don't

You either believe that we will be with Him until He (and us along with Him) returns or you don't.

BUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE JOHN 14 SAYS or doesn't IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PRE TRIB RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH or 2nd Advent.


BUT HERE WE ARE TOLD THE WORDS IN WHICH WE ARE TO COMFORT ONE ANOTHER AND WE DON'T FIND COMFORT IN DEATH, EVER.


1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1Thessalonians 4:10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more

1Thessalonians 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you

1Thessalonians 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE/SLEEP.


1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

DO WE believe that Jesus DIED AND ROSE AGAIN? yes we do.

Do WE believe that JUST LIKE Jesus who died and rose again THAT THOSE WHO SLEEP (the even so them) died AND ROSE AGAIN?


THERE WILL BE SOULS ALIVE AND WALKING ON THE EARTH ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL THE RETURN OF CHRIST

NONE OF THOSE 'even the alive and remaining'

WILL PREVENT THOSE WHO HAVE DIED from INSTANTLY BEING WITH THE LORD.

Just like the 'alive and remaining' will be CHANGED IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, and instantly be with the Lord, so to the ones who fall asleep/die.

(that is all it takes to PUT ON OUR NEW BODY TO BE WITH THE LORD.)

DOESN'T MATTER IF THE FLESH VESSEL HAS TAKEN ITS LAST BREATH or if the vessel is still breathing, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE ALL ARE CHANGED

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,

that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord


shall not prevent them which are asleep


FROM INSTANTLY GOING TO BE WITH THE LORD.

Double post

 

[Absolutely]

"3 ...so that in whatever place I am, there ye may be also." (the very next verse saying, "4 And to the place I am going, ye know the way.") Don't forget the verse which states, (Jn3:13) "... even the Son of man WHICH/WHO IS IN HEAVEN" (present tense; but He stated this while standing on the earth )




Anyway, on to my point:

Some of us believe "the man child" of Rev12:5 / "the male [G730 - arsena / arren]" of Rev12:13 IS "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (not speaking of Jesus Christ exclusively).,, "the woman which HAD BROUGHT FORTH THE MALE [G730 - arsena / arren]" Rev12:13, where verse 5 says, and her child was "CAUGHT UP [G726 - harpazo] TO GOD AND TO HIS THRONE"


...and where the FIRST PART OF THAT VERSE speaks of "who shall rule all the nations with an iron sceptre," but bear also in mind what Rev2:26-27 had already said, "[he that overcometh (that's the SAVED, as I'd mentioned)]... to him will I give power/authority over the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod/sceptre of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: EVEN AS I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER"






So, Rev12:13's "[the woman] which HAD BROUGHT FORTH the male [G730]" speaks of the male having been born PRIOR TO this mid-trib point in the chronology, that is the general chpt 12 setting; and these verses about "the man child / the male [G730]" correspond with:


Micah 5:3 (whereas v.2 speaks of Jesus' OWN birth, verse 3 does NOT) -

Berean Study Bible [to help show context]
Therefore Israel will be abandoned until she who is in labor has given birth; then the rest of His brothers will return to the children of Israel.

King James Bible
Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.



[colors showing the 3 distinct persons of BOTH this Micah 5:3 text and the Rev12:5,13,[17] text to which it corresponds]

Yes
The church going to heaven is very clear.

But remember, THEY NEED it to NOT be so.
Hence the grammatical dance.

 

[Absolutely]

FreeGrace2 said:
If you could only provide some clear evidence that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven, you'd have a point.

Not until then.

Asking for biblical evidence is not trolling. It is searching for answers for your opinions. And you can't provide any evidence for them.


This is quite delirious since there are 2 verses that absolutely SHOW when believers receive glorified bodies.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (Second Advent) and our being gathered to him (resurrection/rapture), we ask you, brothers and sisters,

Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

And you have NEVER even tried to refute either verse, by showing they teach something else.

Is there a post anywhere that lays out your doctrine and what you believe.?
I would like to know what we are dealing with here.

 

[Absolutely]

....but. Lets look at what you guys need to OMIT.

"....Until i drink it with you in heaven"( yep just unbelievable you left it out)

Ever wonder WHY the dead in Christ resurrect from the dead since they are ALREADY in heaven????

....and why Jesus has a glorified BODY...( and the pre rapture saints only have spirits, or form...in heaven)?

Awesome dynamic for a pretrib rapture and glorified bodies IN HEAVEN. ( drinking wine with Jesus, at the marriage supper, IN HEAVEN.).....exactly like Jesus prophesied at the last supper.

( where you guys OMIT that part)

But i do understand ALL ya'lls omissions.

 

[Absolutely]

Could you explain what " I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." is referring to? Thanks.


It seems clear that Jesus was assurring His 11 disciples that they HAVE a place in heaven. He sure didn't want to leave them wondering.

....and that drinking part.

They will be needing those glorified bodies in heaven.

Be sure and get an "answer" to that also

Lol

Nah....just keep making stuff " fit".

 

[Absolutely]

WHAT IS THE SUBJECT?

CAN I FOLLOW YOU? NOT NOW, BUT LATER. WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO BE? HEAVEN. I'LL COME MEET YOU WHEN YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY AND I WILL BRING YOU TO THE FATHER.

YET, when Christ is returning

We FOLLOW Him back TO EARTH when He does DESCEND IN LIKE MANNER AS THEY SAW HIM LEAVE, as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. In a cloud. With saints and angels and martyrs THE DAY OF VENGENCE. THE LORDS DAY. The Millennium. The 1000 years as a day. The 1000 years Satan is bound. The day as 1000 years.

So Christ isn't speaking ABOUT HIM DESCENDING He is speaking about meeting us when we RISE. No where does it speak of Christ DESCENDING, Remember, NO ONE COMETH TO THE FATHER BUT BY CHRIST.


So WHERE this 'CHRIST IS LEAVING HEAVEN' can ONLY COME FROM some XXXXX doctrine that needs to have it some other way, OTHER THAN WHAT IS WRITTEN.

FOLLOW AFTER. TO BE WHERE HE IS. COMETH TO THE FATHER. Our Father WHICH ART IN HEAVEN.
Common sense should be applied to the words of God.

What is the struggle?


Spiritually, Heavenly.

1 In the house of the Father of Me mansions many there are if now not would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

2 And if I go 4198 and prepare 2090 a place 5117 for you again I am coming and will receive 3880 you to Myself that where am I also you may be

4198. poreuomai ►
Strong's Concordance
poreuomai: to go
Original Word: πορεύομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: poreuomai
Phonetic Spelling: (por-yoo'-om-ahee)
Definition: to go
Usage: I travel, journey, go, die.
HELPS Word-studies
4198 poreúomai (from poros, "passageway") – properly, to transport, moving something from one destination (port) to another; (figuratively) to go or depart, emphasizing the personal meaning which is attached to reaching the particular destination.

2090 hetoimázō – prepare, make (made) ready. See 2092 (hetoimos).

5117. topos
Strong's Concordance
topos: a place
Original Word: τόπος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: topos
Phonetic Spelling: (top'-os)
Definition: a place
Usage: a place, region, seat; an opportunity.

2064. erchomai ►
Strong's Concordance
erchomai: to come, go
Original Word: ἔρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: erchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-khom-ahee)
Definition: to come, go
Usage: I come, go.

3880. paralambanó ►
Strong's Concordance
paralambanó: to receive from
Original Word: παραλαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: paralambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (par-al-am-ban'-o)
Definition: to receive from
Usage: I take from, receive from, or: I take to, receive (apparently not used of money), admit, acknowledge; I take with me.


no snatching away, no descending, no horses, no armies, no clouds, no return, no trumpets,



1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead,
how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

DOES THAT MEAN

1. ONE DAY, SOME DAY, THERE EVENTUALLY WILL BE A RESURRECTION? no
2. THERE IS GOING TO BE A RESURRECTION BUT ONLY SOMEDAY? no
3. THERE WILL BE IN THE FUTURE SOME TIME A RESURRECTION? no
4. THERE WILL BE A RESURRECTION ON THE LAST DAY no
5. THERE ISN'T A RESURRECTION NOW, NOW BUT THERE WILL BE LATER no
6. THERE IS A RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD PRESENTLY yes


13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ: whom He raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised

1Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.


1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

"""We FOLLOW Him back TO EARTH when He does DESCEND IN LIKE MANNER AS THEY SAW HIM LEAVE, as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. In a cloud. With saints and angels and martyrs THE DAY OF VENGENCE. THE LORDS DAY. The Millennium. The 1000 years as a day. The 1000 years Satan is bound. The day as 1000 years."""

nope
way off.
" like manner"

that would be LIKE MANNER.

What you presented was a DIFFERENT MANNER .
TOTALLY different.
" like manner" is Jesus with a couple angels.

not horses and millions of riders to war with killing and slaughter.

it JUST MEANS LIKE MANNER.

ONLY pretrib rapture fits perfectly.

you guys do not check things out or test fit those scenarios ...but i Can see why you guys need many verses reframed.

that is appalling.

SMH

 

[Absolutely]

FreeGrace2 said:
Speaking of which, what about the opinion that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven, but there is zero evidence from Scripture showing that?

Since there are NO verses showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, of course the "omission dynamic" naturally falls on YOU.


Thanks for agreeing!


What am I making up? 2 Thess 2:1 and Rev 20:5 very clearly shows WHEN the singular resurrection of believers will occur; at the Second Advent.


I'm convinced by what the Bible says. Unlike yourself.


?? Then why is that ALL you SEEM TO DO?

2 Thess 2:1 and Rev 20:5 very clearly shows WHEN the singular resurrection of believers will occur; at the Second Advent.



5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
There is no resurrection in rev 20.

First resurrection is Jesus the firstfruits followed by the main resurrection at the pretrib rapture of the dead in Christ.

No third resurrection at rev 20.

You did not factor in the setting

The setting of rev 20 is weeks or months after Armageddon with the martyrs set up in the kingdom and seated on thrones.

All those trying to point to some resurrection way after armageddon ( your model) have ONCE AGAIN OMITTED verses.

Just unbelievable.

 

[kleronomos]

Great pretrib rapture verses.
Thanks!

Do you know what pretrib means? That is the second time you have said I have quoted pre trib verses that CAN'T BE PRE TRIB RAPTURE THEORY DOCTINE VERSES BECAUSE

THERE IS NO PRE TRIB RAPTURE. IF THERE WAS YOU WOULD NEVER SAY 'THANKS FOR THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE VERSES THAT CLEARLY ARE NOT.

 

[kleronomos]

yes
After the pretrib rapture we are in heaven, mount Horses as does Jesus, and follow him back to earth.

No brainer.

YOU don't find it to be a MAJOR PROBLEM that there in not ONE VERSE in all of Scripture that says 'the church ascends' into heaven? did you miss the

1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



The AIR we breath is not HEAVEN or we would be seeing heaven right now.

On the other hand Paul was taken to paradise,

THANK YOU FOR YET ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW WHY PRE TRIB RAPTURE


DOES NOT HAVE ANY SCRIPTURE TO BACK UP ANY OF ITS CLAIMS.

 

[kleronomos]

pretty close.

We are raptured pretrib as the bible says, and go to heaven.
We see Jesus prophesy that at the last supper.

We see the church in heaven and has become the wife in heaven in rev 19.

We see the rapture in acts 1
Mat 25 and 24
1 thes 4

And the jews gathered last at rev 14.
(Which is depicted at Jesus' first miracle. ".....but you saved the best for last")

IF THE BIBLE did say so then you would present it NOT IN YOUR WORDS BUT IN GODS.

EVERYTHING YOU POSTED IS BASED NOT ON WHAT IS WRITTEN BUT ON CONJECTURE FROM MAN.


THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ALLOWING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT FORTH MORE LIGHT ON

WHY PRE TRIB RAPTURE IS A DOCTRINE THAT EVEN THOSE WHO PROFESS TO BELIEVE

CANT FIND SCRIPTURE FOR.

 

[kleronomos]

yes
After the pretrib rapture we are in heaven, mount Horses as does Jesus, and follow him back to earth.

No brainer.

It isn't AFTER PRE TRIB it is AFTER DEATH that we go to heaven. You are taking what is written for one group and applying it to another

HERE LET ME SHOW YOU (AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT READS THIS) THAT MISTAKE. IT IS SUPER SIMPLE. I THINK WE HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE, HAVEN'T WE? IF YOU COULD POST THE SAME 5 VERSES AND MAKE IT WORK, I WILL BECOME A BELIEVER.


1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which ARE ASLEEP, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

MAYBE WE AREN'T SEEING EYE TO EYE BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE 'THE CHURCH' is being referred to as the 'ARE ASLEEP'.

Do you believe the church is 'asleep'? Do you not know that is how those who have died are spoken of and NOT THE CHURCH?

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.


AGAIN, MAYBE THIS IS WHERE YOUR CONFUSION COMES IN,

BUT IT IS THOSE WHO ARE ASLEEP WHO CHRIST WILL BE BRINGING WITH HIM WHEN HE GETS ON THE HORSES AND COMES FOR THE DAY OF VENGEANCE, THE LORDS DAY.

AS YOU WILL NOTICE THE ALIVE AND REMAINING ARE STILL ON EARTH AND CHRIST IS RETURNING.

SO THERE IS NO REASON TO GO TO HEAVEN THEN AS HE IS COMING TO EARTH TO RULE WITH A ROD OF IRON. HENCE THE ARMIES COMING WITH HIM.



1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

THIS ALIVE AND REMAINING IS THE CHURCH BUT AS YOU CAN SEE THE LORD IS ALREADY COMING.

AND WHO is coming with Him, who IS HE BRINGING WITH HIM?

THE 'ASLEEP' or those who died AND DID GO TO HEAVEN are coming BACK WITH HIM.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

SINCE CHRIST is coming to the earth as the LAST TRUMP has sounded

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


THAT IS WHY IT IS 'IN THE AIR' AND NOT

unto God or to paradise.


Here is the REAL QUESTION you should be asking. HOW is it possible for me to write these things and there is nothing conflicting IF it isn't truth? I could continue to add Scripture upon Scripture to this and it would never conflict.



HOW ABOUT THIS.

YOU FIND ME ONE (1) VERSE IN ALL OF SCRIPTURE THAT RENDERS ANY OF THIS UNTRUE (THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE ANY CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART.) JUST ONE VERSE THAT PLAINLY STATES THAT THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

....and found teachers thet OMIT our verses.

Yeah you really found high ground huh?

Omit?

Look, you refuse to read the Verses before each single Verse you use because it explains what that verse means.
You, don't want it to mean what it means when read with Verses before and after.
You, just want to pick one single Verse and apply it to your Doctrine.

DO YOU THINK WE DON'T SEE THAT?

 

[Heaven_Bound]

lol
You omitted vs 15

Wow

Hilarious.

Wink wink...I know...I know....you guys never omit rapture verses.

Too funny!!!!

No i did not!

Verse 15 is the Second Coming/Come like a Thief/Rapture!