The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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TheDivineWatermark

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Yes, that is the comparison. This is why Christ is called the firstfruits because His resurrection is the first part of the harvest.
1. Firstfruits
2. Harvest
3. Gleanings
This completes the harvest, three parts, one harvest.
1. Christ's resurrection
2. The resurrection of Christ's body
3. The resurrection of the saints at the end of the tribulation
Okay, I think I detect how you and I see these issues somewhat differently.

When I point out the TWO DISTINCT mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Leviticus 23... I'm pointing out TWO DISTINCT "harvests" (of three).
Whereas you only see ONE "harvest" (in three parts). Right?





[for the readers: recall, I am not EQUATING the term "harvest" with "resurrection" (tho it may INCLUDE that also)]
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Why do you keep asking this bizarre question? What are you trying to prove, other than you own a broken record?


You haven't proven anything from the Bible yet. So, can you prove the Second Advent is "well after armageddon"?

If that were true, who defeated Satan and the beast and FP then?


Yep. That would refer to all of your views, for sure.
Your words friend

Are you unaware of your position???

Here is YOUR POST. YOUR WORDS.;

"""What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.
So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.
So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon."""

You still disagree with yourself???[/QUOTE]
None of this post makes any sense. Please figure out how to communicate clearly. And figure out how to post correctly. You've got my words appearing as your words.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,597
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Okay, I think I detect how you and I see these issues somewhat differently.

When I point out the TWO mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Leviticus 23... I'm pointing out TWO DISTINCT "harvests" (of three).
Whereas you only see ONE "harvest" (in three parts). Right?
I see it as one harvest...three parts. This is likened to a harvest. The firstfruits, the main harvest, then the gleanings are all part of the harvest season.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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A few things to consider:

--I do not believe "harvest" necessarily equals "resurrection [from being physically DEAD]";

--I do not believe Rev14:4 = Rev14:18 about the "grapes" (and neither does v.14);

--you may recall, I do not believe "the 144,000" are shown to go UP TO Heaven; (neither do the Sheep and goats of the nations [plural], by the way)

--the SECOND of the TWO mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Lev23 (v.17) has similar wording to that of Rev14:4 about "the 144,000"

--gotta run!...
"""--you may recall, I do not believe "the 144,000" are shown to go UP TO Heaven; (neither do the Sheep and goats of the nations [plural], by the way)"""

Rev 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

144k vividly portrayed in heaven during the gt
 
Jul 23, 2018
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This is really a broken record. Of course I do and have shown many times. But you need to open those eyes of yours.


This is a question for YOU. I've already shown when He comes.


This is a ridiculous question. The Second Coming is obviously after the Tribulaton.


If you've timed it, please show us where you get your materia?


You're gonna have to prove that I did, since I claim I didn't.


You seem to have a knack for having no clue what you are saying. I'm not riled up over anyone's posts. What people opine doesn't bother me at all. And all I do is share what I believe and prove it from the Bible.
and by you ignoring what YOU SAID...LOL...It just gets funnier.

SMH
 
Jul 23, 2018
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and by you ignoring what YOU SAID...LOL...It just gets funnier.

SMH
It is hard to ignore one's own quote.
Fg;
"""What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.
So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.
So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon."""

I think what happened is a "package deal".
Once you falsely ascribed a time frame to the beheaded martyrs in rev 20, then you got shown how that through your entire doctrine off.
Way off.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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I see it as one harvest...three parts. This is likened to a harvest. The firstfruits, the main harvest, then the gleanings are all part of the harvest season.
Okay (I can see your perspective),

...IOW, you are NOT seeing the distinction (I mentioned in my Post #1413) between:
-- "the FIRST [H7225] OF the FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" (Ex23:18-19 / 34:25-26)
--and the later "FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" (the SECOND mention of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Lev23... that being, in Lev23:17,[20], connected with the "WHEAT" harvest, and the "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"<--which is NOT US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY)...

... and I reading you right, now? = )


Post #1413 - https://christianchat.com/threads/t...at-happens-at-the-rapture.203234/post-4759759
 
Jul 23, 2018
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FreeGrace2 said:
Prove it, quit making false claims.

Prove that my quote is in error.


Prove it.

Like I have proven that there can be no pretrib rapture from Scripture.
It is so blatantly rediculous the bible is trying to hide from you.
Classic classic postrib theology so impossible nobody could miss it.

Here is your quote;

"""What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.
So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.
So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon."""

.....and you defend it.
SMH
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Okay (I can see your perspective),

...IOW, you are NOT seeing the distinction (I mentioned in my Post #1413) between:
-- "the FIRST [H7225] OF the FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" (Ex23:18-19 / 34:25-26)
--and the later "FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" (the SECOND mention of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Lev23... that being, in Lev23:17,[20], connected with the "WHEAT" harvest, and the "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"<--which is NOT US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY)...

... and I reading you right, now? = )


Post #1413 - https://christianchat.com/threads/t...at-happens-at-the-rapture.203234/post-4759759
THE CHURCH is the barley harvest. (barley harvested first)
Depicted in ruth
She is the gentile bride
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,597
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Okay (I can see your perspective),

...IOW, you are NOT seeing the distinction (I mentioned in my Post #1413) between:
-- "the FIRST [H7225] OF the FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" (Ex23:18-19 / 34:25-26)
--and the later "FIRSTFRUIT [H1061]" (the SECOND mention of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Lev23... that being, in Lev23:17,[20], connected with the "WHEAT" harvest, and the "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"<--which is NOT US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY)...

... and I reading you right, now? = )


Post #1413 - https://christianchat.com/threads/t...at-happens-at-the-rapture.203234/post-4759759
Interesting, I'll "search the scriptures."
 
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John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

38 Jesus answered him Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily verily I say unto thee The cock shall not crow till thou hast denied me thrice.

1 Let not your heart be troubled ye believe in God believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions if it were not so I would have told you I go to prepare a place for you.

4198. poreuomai ►
Strong's Concordance
poreuomai: to go
Original Word: πορεύομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: poreuomai
Phonetic Spelling: (por-yoo'-om-ahee)
Definition: to go
Usage: I travel, journey, go, die.
HELPS Word-studies
4198 poreúomai (from poros, "passageway") – properly, to transport, moving something from one destination (port) to another; (figuratively) to go or depart, emphasizing the personal meaning which is attached to reaching the particular destination.

2090. hetoimazó ►
Strong's Concordance
hetoimazó: to prepare
Original Word: ἑτοιμάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hetoimazó
Phonetic Spelling: (het-oy-mad'-zo)
Definition: to prepare
Usage: I make ready, prepare.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2090 hetoimázō – prepare, make (made) ready. See 2092 (hetoimos).




3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

3880 paralambánō

1. to take to,to take with oneself, to join to oneself, to my companionship, where I myself dwell, John 14:3.

a. of Christ's invisible return from heaven, i. e. of the power which through the Holy Spirit he will exert in the souls of his disciples

John 14:18, 23; of his invisible advent in the death of believers, by which be takes them to himself into heaven, John 14:3.




4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
 
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THE FIRST RESURRECTION applies to ALL who are SAVED AND go straight to the Lord and Saviour upon the last breath of the flesh body.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



DID they ALL
resurrect at the same time on the same day?


If so when was it, since this is the opening of the fifth seal?

THERE HAS BEEN NO 'PRE TRIB OR POST TRIB RAPTURE AT THIS POINT SO HOW DID THEY ALL GET THERE AND WHEN?
 
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SOMETHING POST TRIBULATION CAN DO THE PRE TRIBULATION CAN'T.

And why can't they do it? Because it isn't found in Gods words, it is only found by mans explanations and conjectures. That is why you have never seen it laid out. NEVER. NOT ONCE. IT CAN'T BE DONE

Sure, they'll talk it up one side and down the other with their own words, they will show where NOTHING is said and try to convince that falls under 'what is written' instead of HATH GOD SAID?, BUT WITHOUT EXPLANATION, THEY JUST CAN'T EVER GET 'THAT CHURCH' UP TO HEAVEN NOR CAN THEY GET THE LORD AND SAVIOR TO THE EARTH EXCEPT WHEN HE RETURNS TO SET UP THE KINGDOM.

(take note)

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.


1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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DID they ALL
resurrect at the same time on the same day?


If so when was it, since this is the opening of the fifth seal?
You had quoted the text...

which says, "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for..." [and] "it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until ..."

At this "fifth seal" point in time, they are not yet "resurrected" (which means, "to stand again [on the earth; bodily-resurrected/resurrection]").

They WILL be "resurrected" at the END of the Trib... same time that the ones "beheaded / martyred [/killed]" in the SECOND HALF of the "7 yrs" will also be "resurrected" (per Rev20:4b)... not to mention, at the same general time-slot that the OT saints will be "resurrected," per Dan12:13 ("[and STAND IN THY LOT] at the END of the days [at the END of the "days" referred to esp. in that chpt, Dan12:1,6-7, aka at the END of the Trib], per Job19:25-27 (the latter day upon the earth), and per what Martha also WELL-KNEW and spoke of in Jn11:24 "at the last day" (not merely consisting of "a singular 24-hr day," tho this "resurrection" surely will occur on one of those--i.e. at one particular point in time).

The "fifth seal martyrs" are KILLED in the FIRST HALF of the [7] Trib yrs... which is [in the time period] FOLLOWING "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]".

They will be "resurrected" ['to stand again' (on the earth)] when the "BEHEADED" ones (killed during the SECOND HALF) will be "resurrected"... but UNTIL then, they are told to "rest yet A LITTLE WHILE, UNTIL..." (until the rest of those saints killed in/during the Trib years will be killed too). After that, they're all "resurrected ['to stand again' (on the earth)]"--all those TRIB saints--resurrected at the same time.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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SOMETHING POST TRIBULATION CAN DO THE PRE TRIBULATION CAN'T.

And why can't they do it? Because it isn't found in Gods words, it is only found by mans explanations and conjectures. That is why you have never seen it laid out. NEVER. NOT ONCE. IT CAN'T BE DONE

Sure, they'll talk it up one side and down the other with their own words, they will show where NOTHING is said and try to convince that falls under 'what is written' instead of HATH GOD SAID?, BUT WITHOUT EXPLANATION, THEY JUST CAN'T EVER GET 'THAT CHURCH' UP TO HEAVEN NOR CAN THEY GET THE LORD AND SAVIOR TO THE EARTH EXCEPT WHEN HE RETURNS TO SET UP THE KINGDOM.

(take note)

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.


1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
I read your post
A couple things in there that both sides represent.
Did not see your postr trib rapture slam dunk ANYWHERE in there.
 
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The body of Christ is never commanded to endure to the end to be saved, nor is our salvation based upon keeping the commandments.
Christians, believers, the saved, the remnant, THEY ARE WHAT MAKE UP THE CHURCH AND THE BODY. They are told to endure to the end, overcome, stand, gird up thy loins, put on the armor, withstand the fiery darts of Satan,

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

The CHURCH is just the place they gather. Just like the synagogue is just the place they gather.

The BODY of Christ is also 'the collective' of CHRISTIANS and believers and the saved and the remnant, the Jews and the Gentiles made a new creature.

THE MESSAGES went to the GATHERINGS OF BELIEVERS,

but IT WAS

HE that hath an ear IT IS HIM THAT NEEDS TO OVERCOME TO EAT OF THE TREE OF LIFE.




He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

AGAIN, THE MESSAGE GOES TO THE GATHERING OF BELIEVERS, THE BODY OF CHRIST

BUT AGAIN, IT IS

HE THAT HATH AN EAR, HE THAT OVERCOMETH THAT SHALL NOT BE HURT BY THE SECOND DEATH


He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


AGAIN, THE MESSAGE IS TO THE WHOLE BODY OF BELIEVERS BUT AGAIN IT IS TO

HE THAT HATH AN EAR, HE THAT OVERCOMETH THAT GETS TO EAT OF THE HIDDEN MANNA, WHO RECEIVES A WHITE STONE, WITH THE NEW NAME NO ONE KNOWS EXCEPT HE THAT RECEIVETH IT.

THAT CAN'T BE 'THE WHOLE CHURCH

I'LL drop that part there and go on to

nor is our salvation based upon keeping the commandments???

Your SALVATION is based on COMING TO FAITH and BELIEF, and that BELIEF is comprised of following the commandments. Those who love Him keep His commandments. The rest are all faking it.

When you come to faith and ask to have HIM come into your life, it is a PROMISE on your part also, not just His. Have you ever noticed how many IF'S there are? So while it may not be 'BASED' on that I sure would never write such a thing, as those are words that tend to lead the unlearned astray and opens the door to false teachings. Sure after lots of study it is a 'conclusion' you may arrive to, but that still isn't something that forwards Gods Truths.
 
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SOMETHING POST TRIBULATION CAN DO THE PRE TRIBULATION CAN'T.

Like pray according to Jesus command?
"Pray that you may be counted worthy to escape these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”


stuff like that?

it would be dishonest for a postribber to pray that.
 
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Christians, believers, the saved, the remnant, THEY ARE WHAT MAKE UP THE CHURCH AND THE BODY. They are told to endure to the end, overcome, stand, gird up thy loins, put on the armor, withstand the fiery darts of Satan,

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

The CHURCH is just the place they gather. Just like the synagogue is just the place they gather.

The BODY of Christ is also 'the collective' of CHRISTIANS and believers and the saved and the remnant, the Jews and the Gentiles made a new creature.

THE MESSAGES went to the GATHERINGS OF BELIEVERS,

but IT WAS

HE that hath an ear IT IS HIM THAT NEEDS TO OVERCOME TO EAT OF THE TREE OF LIFE.



He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

AGAIN, THE MESSAGE GOES TO THE GATHERING OF BELIEVERS, THE BODY OF CHRIST

BUT AGAIN, IT IS

HE THAT HATH AN EAR, HE THAT OVERCOMETH THAT SHALL NOT BE HURT BY THE SECOND DEATH


He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


AGAIN, THE MESSAGE IS TO THE WHOLE BODY OF BELIEVERS BUT AGAIN IT IS TO

HE THAT HATH AN EAR, HE THAT OVERCOMETH THAT GETS TO EAT OF THE HIDDEN MANNA, WHO RECEIVES A WHITE STONE, WITH THE NEW NAME NO ONE KNOWS EXCEPT HE THAT RECEIVETH IT.

THAT CAN'T BE 'THE WHOLE CHURCH

I'LL drop that part there and go on to

nor is our salvation based upon keeping the commandments???

Your SALVATION is based on COMING TO FAITH and BELIEF, and that BELIEF is comprised of following the commandments. Those who love Him keep His commandments. The rest are all faking it.

When you come to faith and ask to have HIM come into your life, it is a PROMISE on your part also, not just His. Have you ever noticed how many IF'S there are? So while it may not be 'BASED' on that I sure would never write such a thing, as those are words that tend to lead the unlearned astray and opens the door to false teachings. Sure after lots of study it is a 'conclusion' you may arrive to, but that still isn't something that forwards Gods Truths.


He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Interesting you quote that since postrib rapture adherents say they never go to heaven.
 
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