The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Absolutely]

What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.

So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.

New International Version
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

New Living Translation
This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)

English Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

Berean Study Bible
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

Berean Literal Bible
The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years shall have been completed. This is the first resurrection.

King James Bible
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

New King James Version
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

New American Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

NASB 1995
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

NASB 1977
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Amplified Bible
The rest of the dead [the non-believers] did not come to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

American Standard Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And this is the first resurrection.

Douay-Rheims Bible
The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

English Revised Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

International Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection.

Literal Standard Version
and the rest of the dead did not live again until the one thousand years may be completed; this [is] the first resurrection.

NET Bible
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.

New Heart English Bible
The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Weymouth New Testament
No one else who was dead rose to Life until the thousand years were at an end. This is the First Resurrection.

World English Bible
The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Young's Literal Translation
and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.

Now that I've FIXED the dishonesty, can you finally ADMIT that the resurrection of the martyrs is "the FIRST resurrection"?


When you stop before v.5, sure, you'd think so.


There are only 2 total. One for the saved and one for the unsaved. Acts 24:15 actually says so clearly. Have you read it yet?


huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.

You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable

"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.
You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable"""

Do you realize you placed the second coming AFTER the battle of Armageddon?

 

[John146]

I believe the only real issue regarding resurrection is whether the person receives a glorified body, as Paul describes in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4. And what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:23 about the imperishable body (glorified body).

We read about several people during Jesus' ministry who were raised from the dead. Also, many believers came out of their graves at the crucifixion. Not only that, we have evidence of people being raised from the dead in the OT: Heb 11:35, which is a reference to 1 Kings 17:22-23, where Elijah raised a dead to life and presented him back to her.

So, the question is: did any of these receive an imperishable body when they came back to life? The answer is "no" because there is no mention of such.

And, since the Bible teaches that the singular resurrection of all the saved will occur "when He comes", from 1 Cor 15:23, and Paul describes the resurrection (glorified body) of Jesus is the first one (first fruits), we know that none of the people who came back to life received a glorified body, since all of them died and came back BEFORE or WHEN Jesus was crucified. And Jesus didn't appear on earth in His glorified imperishable body until 3 days after the crucifixion.

If there is a difference between "from the dead" and "of the dead", it's probably that "from the dead" refers to those who came back to life and died again, whereas "of the dead" would refer to the saints, regarding that resurrection. That term is also used for ALL the unbelievers who will be raised to life for the GWT judgment, and they certainly don't receive a glorified body, obviously.

The phrase “from the dead” describes the resurrection of Jesus and eventually all those in Him. The resurrection “of the dead” is a separate resurrection at the end of the Millennium.

 

[Absolutely]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible speaks of the resurrection in the singular. There are not stages. Only one.

The "firstfruits" is jesus Himself, who was the FIRST human to receive a glorified body. All the rest of the saved receive their glorified bodies "when He comes", as 1 Cor 15:23 says.

And Rev 20:5 very plainly describes the resurrection of trib martyrs as the FIRST resurrection, so that's when ALL believers will get a glorified body.

Yes, rather impressive, huh.


Huh? The Bible SAYS it. Why do you rejecrt what the Bible says?


Actually, ALL believers from Adam forward will have to wait until "when He comes" at the end of the Trib, since the Bible says so.

Rev 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

We have all that after the second coming on white horses.
You are not aware of that.
You think the rapture AND RESURRECTION HAPPEN AFTER THE SECOND COMING ON WHITE HORSES.
Beyond that you are oblivious that the rapture happens AT HIS APPEARING ??????

You just placed it ( with all authority, AFTER....WELL AFTER .....HIS APPEARING.....EVEN AFTER SATAN BOUND AND THE MARTYRS ARE ESTABLISHED IN THRONES)

That is massive error.

""""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon"""

^^^That is impossible.^^^^

There is NOTHING in vs 4 or 5 about when they are resurrected.

But you have the rapture and resurrection AFTER....WELL AFTER Jesus appears on white horses.

 

[John146]

I believe the only real issue regarding resurrection is whether the person receives a glorified body, as Paul describes in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4. And what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:23 about the imperishable body (glorified body).

We read about several people during Jesus' ministry who were raised from the dead. Also, many believers came out of their graves at the crucifixion. Not only that, we have evidence of people being raised from the dead in the OT: Heb 11:35, which is a reference to 1 Kings 17:22-23, where Elijah raised a dead to life and presented him back to her.

So, the question is: did any of these receive an imperishable body when they came back to life? The answer is "no" because there is no mention of such.

And, since the Bible teaches that the singular resurrection of all the saved will occur "when He comes", from 1 Cor 15:23, and Paul describes the resurrection (glorified body) of Jesus is the first one (first fruits), we know that none of the people who came back to life received a glorified body, since all of them died and came back BEFORE or WHEN Jesus was crucified. And Jesus didn't appear on earth in His glorified imperishable body until 3 days after the crucifixion.

If there is a difference between "from the dead" and "of the dead", it's probably that "from the dead" refers to those who came back to life and died again, whereas "of the dead" would refer to the saints, regarding that resurrection. That term is also used for ALL the unbelievers who will be raised to life for the GWT judgment, and they certainly don't receive a glorified body, obviously.

Was the resurrection of Christ part of the first resurrection? Did not Christ resurrect first before these in Revelation 20? One has to understand the first resurrection has three parts. The body being sown in the ground is likened to a seed, the planting of a crop. Thus, Christ is the Firstfruits, then the harvest, then lastly the gleanings which finishes the harvest process…one harvest, three parts.

Revelation 20:
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Absolutely]

Well, this comment proves that you aren't making any progress at all. I have already proved that it is from ALL the translations that say that.


Not difficult to ascertain. It occurs after the Trib.


Context does tell us. Sometimes the Bible speaks as if an event has already occurred but hasn't yet. Such as Rom 8:30 - And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Have you been glorified yet? That means receiving an imperishable body.


Only in your own mind.


Follow the Bible. Start with ch 19 and then just keep reading through at least v.6.

Quote absolutely; "Only part...(and that resurrection mentioned in rev 20 has no mention of when."

Quote fg;
"Not difficult to ascertain. It occurs after the Trib."

Verse please.

 

[Absolutely]

Was the resurrection of Christ part of the first resurrection? Did not Christ resurrect first before these in Revelation 20? One has to understand the first resurrection has three parts. The body being sown in the ground is likened to a seed, the planting of a crop. Thus, Christ is the Firstfruits, then the harvest, then lastly the gleanings which finishes the harvest process…one harvest, three parts.

Revelation 20:
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The final nail in the coffin is the gathering in rev14 :14 of the jews.

And ironically they are preceded by.....drum roll please....FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.

By fg taking firstfruits off the table, the entire string of harvests is corrupted.

There are 3 main harvests.
Barley
Wheat
Fruit ( grapes)

The last is grapes, in the summer.

Rev 14:14 is the grape harvest.

It is prophesied in Jesus first miracle. At the wedding.
".....but you saved the best for last"

The wedding ( bride/bridegroom) from my perspective, is the number one prism for end times interpretation.

But without harvest understanding, end times will remain a mystery.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The ones martyred by the ac is the first resurrection?

Rev 20:5 specifically calls that resurrection the FIRST resurrection. The verse that you always ignore and leave out when you quote anything in Rev 20.

And 1 Cor 15:23 proves that there is only 1 resurrection of the saved, which will be "when He comes". Everyone knows that Jesus' First Advent was as a baby and suffering servant. And His Second Advent will be as King of kings and Lord of lords, which occurs at the end of the Tribulation. So that's when ALL believers, from Adam forward will be resurrected and receive glorified bodies. Believers who survive the Tribulation will be "changed in the twinkling of the eye" according to Paul in 1 Cor 15:52. Which means they will also receive a glorified body. All believers get theirs at one event. It is called the FIRST resurrection.

It is sad that you won't acknowledge Rev 20:5.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here it is
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Who is in the first resurrection?

All believers. 1 Cor 15:23 says "when He comes, those who belong to Him". I'll let you figure that out.

The second resurrection obviously omits those risen in the first.

Of course. That resurrection is for all the unbelievers, for the purpose of attending the GWT judgment. Acts 24:15 plainly teaches that there will be a resurrection (singular) for the saved and a resurrection (singular) for the unsaved.

Again who is in the first resurrection?

ALL believers. Every last one of them. 1 Cor 15:23

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""Why do you continue to ask such a ridiculous question? v.5 plainly SAYS the resurrection of the martyrs is the FIRST resurrection."""
So you do confirm those martyred by the ac are the first resurrection?

All believers will be in the singular resurrection of the saved. 1 Cor 15:23 is my proof.

What about others dying naturally and saved for the last 1900 years?

All believers will be resurrected at the same singular resurrection. You need to figure out what "those who belong to Him" means. I already know.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.

So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.

Then I quoted 24 translations that PROVE that v.5 that says the martyrs are in the FIRST resurrection.

"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"??

I wasn't addressing WHEN He comes in my post. So your question is superfluous and irrelevant.

But since you are trying to insinuate a LIE, I'll clear it all up for you. The phrase "when He comes" in 1 Cor 15:23 refers to the Second Advent or Second Coming of Jesus Christ. This will occur at the end of the Tribulation. 2 Thess 2:1 specifically says so.

When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.

Of course at the end of the Trib. In fact, His coming ends the Trib, at the battle of Armageddon.

It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.

Prove it.

You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable"""

Prove it by showing when the Second Advent occurs.

Do you realize you placed the second coming AFTER the battle of Armageddon?

No, I didn't. In fact, I have, AGAIN, proved again how wrong you are.

Jesus returns to earth to END the battle of Armageddon, which ends the Tribulation, and beins the Millennial Reign.

 

[Absolutely]

Rev 20:5 specifically calls that resurrection the FIRST resurrection. The verse that you always ignore and leave out when you quote anything in Rev 20.

And 1 Cor 15:23 proves that there is only 1 resurrection of the saved, which will be "when He comes". Everyone knows that Jesus' First Advent was as a baby and suffering servant. And His Second Advent will be as King of kings and Lord of lords, which occurs at the end of the Tribulation. So that's when ALL believers, from Adam forward will be resurrected and receive glorified bodies. Believers who survive the Tribulation will be "changed in the twinkling of the eye" according to Paul in 1 Cor 15:52. Which means they will also receive a glorified body. All believers get theirs at one event. It is called the FIRST resurrection.

It is sad that you won't acknowledge Rev 20:5.

It does NOT say when.

But lets look at when YOU place it.

""""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon"""
That is YOUR QUOTE.

YOU place the first resurrevtion after armageddon, and after satan is chained.

Psssst....that means there is no resurrection at his coming
No meeting him in the air.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Rev 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

We have all that after the second coming on white horses.
You are not aware of that.

Ridiculous and FALSE claim, which you seem to be fond of doing.

The Second Coming begins in Rev 19 in heaven when Jesus and His army prepares for the trip, and the results of His coming to earth in v.17-21. When the beast and FP are thrown into the LoF and Satan is bound for 1,000 years.

\You think the rapture AND RESURRECTION HAPPEN AFTER THE SECOND COMING ON WHITE HORSES.

Change that ridiculous "after" to WHEN. Then you'll be correct.

Beyond that you are oblivious that the rapture happens AT HIS APPEARING ??????

Rather, you are QUITE oblivious to what I believe, even though I have been very careful and clear.

You just placed it ( with all authority, AFTER....WELL AFTER .....HIS APPEARING.....EVEN AFTER SATAN BOUND AND THE MARTYRS ARE ESTABLISHED IN THRONES)

That is massive error.

OK, you just can't read straight. That's a problem.

There is NOTHING in vs 4 or 5 about when they are resurrected.

Sure there is. But since you can't read straight, I can't expect you to read any verse and grasp it's meaing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Was the resurrection of Christ part of the first resurrection?

Before the "first resurrection". 1 Cor 15:23 makes that clear. Believers won't be resurrected "until He comes". So He can't be in what the Bible calls the First resurrection.

Did not Christ resurrect first before these in Revelation 20?

Absolutely! He was resurrected about 33 AD.

One has to understand the first resurrection has three parts. The body being sown in the ground is likened to a seed, the planting of a crop. Thus, Christ is the Firstfruits, then the harvest, then lastly the gleanings which finishes the harvest process…one harvest, three parts.

Not supported by what the Bible says about it. Jesus is the first to receive a glorified body, per Acts 26:23. Then, all believers take part in the FIRST resurrection, per Rev 20:5 and the multiple verses that speak of a singular resurrection for the saved. Then all unbelievers will take part in the SECOND resurrection to appear before the GWT, per Acts 24:15 which speaks of just 2 resurrections.

Revelation 20:
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If any resurrection would have been described as a "gleaning", you'd have a point.

Just because all literal harvests involved 3 parts doesn't equate to the resurrection. Paul called the resurrection of Jesus as the "first fruits" simply because He is the first to receive a glorified body. He wasn't thinking of harvests.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Quote absolutely; "Only part...(and that resurrection mentioned in rev 20 has no mention of when."

Quote fg;
"Not difficult to ascertain. It occurs after the Trib."

Verse please.

Please don't try to be so difficult. Rev 20:5 directly speaks of the FIRST resurrection, when Trib martyrs participate. Since there is only a singular resurrection of believers (you've been shown the verse many times now) it is obvious that the resurrection of all believers occurs AFTER the Trib, which is ended by the Second Advent of Christ.

 

[Absolutely]

FreeGrace2 said:
What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.

So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.

Then I quoted 24 translations that PROVE that v.5 that says the martyrs are in the FIRST resurrection.

I wasn't addressing WHEN He comes in my post. So your question is superfluous and irrelevant.

But since you are trying to insinuate a LIE, I'll clear it all up for you. The phrase "when He comes" in 1 Cor 15:23 refers to the Second Advent or Second Coming of Jesus Christ. This will occur at the end of the Tribulation. 2 Thess 2:1 specifically says so.


Of course at the end of the Trib. In fact, His coming ends the Trib, at the battle of Armageddon.


Prove it.


Prove it by showing when the Second Advent occurs.


No, I didn't. In fact, I have, AGAIN, proved again how wrong you are.

Jesus returns to earth to END the battle of Armageddon, which ends the Tribulation, and beins the Millennial Reign.

Lol
My quote: "that means there is no resurrection at the second coming on white horses"

Fg quote;
""""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon"""

See how you reframed it?

Pssst...in your sequence you have Jesus coming on white horses AFTER ARMAGEDDON.
UH....that is not at all in the bible

 

[FreeGrace2]

It does NOT say when.

You really need to pay attention. You'd learn something.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

You have no excuse to keep claiming that the Bible doesn't say "when". Here are 2 verses that DO say "when". It is "when he comes".

But lets look at when YOU place it.

I'm not even going to entertain your nonsense. You definitely have some reading problems.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lol
My quote: "that means there is no resurrection at the second coming on white horses"

Fg quote;
""""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon"""

See how you reframed it?

Pssst...in your sequence you have Jesus coming on white horses AFTER ARMAGEDDON.
UH....that is not at all in the bible

I have ascertained that you are unable or unwilling to absorb reasonable and rational information. Or even the Bible itself.

 

[Absolutely]

Ridiculous and FALSE claim, which you seem to be fond of doing.

The Second Coming begins in Rev 19 in heaven when Jesus and His army prepares for the trip, and the results of His coming to earth in v.17-21. When the beast and FP are thrown into the LoF and Satan is bound for 1,000 years.


Change that ridiculous "after" to WHEN. Then you'll be correct.


Rather, you are QUITE oblivious to what I believe, even though I have been very careful and clear.


OK, you just can't read straight. That's a problem.


Sure there is. But since you can't read straight, I can't expect you to read any verse and grasp it's meaing.

"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.
You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable"""

Your quote
Which you declare with authority

Which is so wrong, even the most radical postribbers would not buy it.

 

[Absolutely]

I have ascertained that you are unable or unwilling to absorb reasonable and rational information. Or even the Bible itself.

Lets see....
What is it you claim?
"""huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.
You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable"""

Really?

.....and you are defending that?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

...drum roll please....FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
By fg taking firstfruits off the table, the entire string of harvests is corrupted.
There are 3 main harvests.
Barley
Wheat
Fruit ( grapes)

Yes... Scripture shows the following:


--TWO DISTINCT mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Leviticus 23;


--James 1:18 saying, "[that we should be] a KIND of firstfruit";


--"the 144,000" being connected with (the "FIRSTFRUIT" OF) the "WHEAT" harvest (Rev14:4 / Lev23:17 "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" [<--that ain't US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY]);


--the "WHEAT" harvest taking place in connection with Christ's Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the earthly MK age (i.e. "the AGE [SINGULAR] TO COME"), where Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50=(also)Matt25:31-34 and context (i.e. the "nations [plural]" having been INVITED--and the SHEEP [/the righteous / ye BLESSED] of the nations will be those who will ENTER the earthly MK age [not the goats / ye CURSED]); these passages speak of those "still-living" at that time-slot (the SHEEP / the righteous / ye BLESSED of My Father) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, just like will be true of the persons in Dan12:13 ("BLESSED is he that WAITETH and COMETH TO the 1335 days"); which leads to the later fact of Rev20:8 "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea";


--when it comes to the Subject of "resurrection," 1Cor15:23 says, "[re: resurrection] but EACH [*G1538; a word that means "of more than two"] in his own ORDER / RANK" (which suggests there doesn't remain ONLY ONE at a singular point in time... so one must ask themselves, why is that? and how can that be? [bearing in mind (re: "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"): Col2:12-13/Eph2:5/Rom6:3/Col3:1,3,4, etc]); *G1538 - https://biblehub.com/greek/1538.htm


--more... but sufficient for one post... = )