The First Resurrection

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Guest
#41
"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection".

The dead are the 'dead in Christ'. When Christ died for our sins, it was just as if we had died but he took our place. We are dead with him in that respect (Romans 6:4, Col 2:12). It is not describing the unsaved. That is why the dead are said to live again. The unsaved never live again. When the verse says that the dead live again it means that they are born again to a new life in Christ. It means they become saved. The first resurrection is when Christ rose from the dead. He was the first to rise. When he did so he led captivity captive and gave gifts of new life to men he planned to save. The verse talks about the time period when Satan is bound. Satan is bound during the church age so that he cannot deceive those who are to be saved from believing. The Holy Spirit is the seal that prevents Satan from deceiving people away from salvation at that time. The Holy Spirit allows those who are saved to stay saved. They have a part in the first resurrection (the resurrection of Christ) because it was his atoning death and resurrection which gave them new life in Christ. They are blessed (meaning saved) and holy (meaning Christ paid for their sins). The church age is described as a period of a thousand years, the time when Satan is bound. The thousand years is not a literal thousand years any more than the parable of the ten virgins is a picture of only 5 persons who will ever be saved or 5 who will not. Rather, like the parable of the virgins, numbers have parable meanings in the Bible and are not always literal. The ten virgins were a picture of many persons and the thousand years is simply a particular time period. In the same book of Revelation there are 2 witnesses. This number also is a parable number describing more true believers than just two persons, if you see what I mean.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The thrones that you ask about is simply saying that those who are saved rule and reign with Christ in the spiritual sense as soon as they become saved. We are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We do not worship the God of false religion, but the real God.

The talk about beheading that you ask about is describing how Satan enters into the people of the congregations of the church age and proclaims himself as the head of the congregations and his idea of the Bible and the gospel is what is followed. He rejects true believers and their true gospel and so the Bible uses the terminology of removing the head, Christ, from the true believers. Of course, they still have Christ as their true head, despite being rejected by the congregations. In much the same way, this terminology is used for John the baptist, whose actual head was removed to illustrate this.

The second death that you ask about is describing how those persons who are unsaved (who have already died spiritually once like all people as a result of man's sin) die later when they are permantly destroyed (cease to exist). It is as if fire burns up the people and they are no more. Fire is a parable word in the Bible for God's judgment rather than life. Jesus himself was a burnt offering in that sense. Anyhow, those who are saved once they are born again, never die again, so there is no destruction for them afterwards, no second death. Sure, their physical body may die at whatever age they live to be, but the real born again them goes on and on forever amazingly, thanks to Jesus who ever lives to interceed for them.[/QUOTE
"The unsaved never live again"...trying to remember something about the unsaved being cast bodily into the lake of fire. Wouldn't they be alive then? Also not understanding "fire is a parable word for God's judgment rather than life".
 
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Guest
#42
Rev. 20:5 is an spurious passage. Some translations of the Scriptures do not include it or put foot notes indicating it was not found in the original Greek manuscripts.

spurious Text Frames

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[TD][/TD]
[TD="width: 88%"][/TD]
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Why would this be? Bible scriptures warn of adding or taking away from the word.
 
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Guest
#43
YOUR spirit may walk through the muckety muck of this world. Mine doesn't. It is raised together with Christ and seated together with Christ in the spiritual realm. I am ACTUALLY there. LLOL how can you be 'raised positionally'? What nonsense. I AM WITH CHRIST NOW in the spiritual realm. I am sorry you aren't. You clearly only have half a life. I suggest you pray about it. OOPS of course you can't. Your spirit is in the muckety muck of the world.
How are you in the spiritual realm with Christ now? Just curious.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#44
YOUR spirit may walk through the muckety muck of this world. Mine doesn't. It is raised together with Christ and seated together with Christ in the spiritual realm. I am ACTUALLY there. LLOL how can you be 'raised positionally'? What nonsense. I AM WITH CHRIST NOW in the spiritual realm. I am sorry you aren't. You clearly only have half a life. I suggest you pray about it. OOPS of course you can't. Your spirit is in the muckety muck of the world.
Just more amillennialist allegories. Tell me Valiant, the word of God also says that "we died and were buried with Christ by baptism." So, are you literally buried right now? I guarantee you that you are indeed walking through the muckety muck of the world just like the rest of believers are and that because you would have to be here on earth in order to create and answer these posts, unless you are typing away in heaven on some cloud. You go to sleep and wake up every morning don't you? You have a job that you go to don't you? You live in a house don't you? Well then, you are definitely here in the muckety muck of the world, that is, you are exposed to it. While it is true that we are raised and seated in heavenly places, meaning that those positions for believers are set in stone, guaranteed, we have yet to literally experience life in those glorified bodies, yet the promise of it is a done deal, waiting for us.

Scripture also states that we have inherited all things through Christ, which means those things are guaranteed for us, which we will receive when we are gathered to him, (my reward is with me) but the truth is, we have yet to literally receive and experience them. You currently are not wearing that robe of righteousness, nor do you have the name of God the Father, Jesus Christ and the New Jerusalem written on your forehead. You have also not received a white stone with a new name on it nor have you received your victory's crown, etc. Therefore, though we have been raised with Christ and are seated in heavenly places, we are not yet literally experiencing those guaranteed positions with Christ. Not until the resurrection and catching away takes place will we literally experience those positions.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
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#45
YOUR spirit may walk through the muckety muck of this world. Mine doesn't. It is raised together with Christ and seated together with Christ in the spiritual realm. I am ACTUALLY there. LLOL how can you be 'raised positionally'? What nonsense. I AM WITH CHRIST NOW in the spiritual realm. I am sorry you aren't. You clearly only have half a life. I suggest you pray about it. OOPS of course you can't. Your spirit is in the muckety muck of the world.
Jesus said we are IN THE WORLD not of the WORLD. That is spelled 'muckety-muck'...unless you are one of those sinless perfect people living above the rest of us.
 
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DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#46
Is making sense so far as for verse 5. So then the unbeliever will still be in Hades during the thousand year reign, not in the lake of fire yet.

That would make verse 6 clearer then because if one is not part of the first resurrection, they are eternally doomed. Wow.
But that's still not correct.

Rev 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
KJV

Rev 20:15
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

Now why would that judging using that Book of Life then even be necessary if all those are judged to go into the lake of fire?

Why is there mention of a "first resurrection" unto Life if there is not at least another resurrection unto Life?

Those using their carnal fleshy mind will never understand that time. Mankind's time in a flesh body will be over at Christ's coming. The goats on the left hand will be separated from Christ's sheep. Those goats will be in a place of separation apart from Christ's sheep. Those goats represent those nations of Rev.20 outside the holy city in that time, and that's who those "dead" of Rev.20:5 are.

They are spiritually dead, not physically dead. They are not "born again" of The Spirit through Christ Jesus. That's why they are still called 'dead' in that time.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#47
How are you in the spiritual realm with Christ now? Just curious.
You mean you don't know? That's sad. It has to be experienced to be understood. Daily I walk with Christ, talk with my Father, enjoy their indwelling, receive revelation through His word, battle with hosts of wickedness in those heavenly places, pull down strongholds, act as His ambassador, talk over with my Father the things that are according to His will, and keep my mind on things above. None of this is of this world.
 
Jul 23, 2015
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#48
:smoke: are missing from the Vatican Manuscript, No. 1209, having been lost during the fifteen or more centuries since it was written. The Sinaitic Manuscript is perfect and complete and is the oldest known copy of the Scriptures, having been written (it is believed) in the year 331 A.D.
~:› THEREFOR IT IS ABOUT COMPARING FROM ONE BOOK TO ANOTHER
MEANING FROM CODEX SINAITICUS TO CODEX VATICANUS :hmm:

:rofl: as we observed the name vatican appears to this as a manuscript
where you cannot find any words in the holy scriptures that has a written word
as the word vatican itself

:whistle: by the way
as it is written by the apostle of the gentiles
:read:
2 Corinthians 3:6
who also made us competent as servants of a renewed covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#49
Just more amillennialist allegories.

LOL such prejudice. But you are right in one thing, pre-millennialism keeps you firmly of the world, making you lose sight of spiritual things. It is so sad. You are so bogged down that you don't even know what I am talking about. And it is all in the Bible.

Tell me Valiant, the word of God also says that "we died and were buried with Christ by baptism." So, are you literally buried right now?
You see how your mind is so stuck in the mud that you cannot discern spiritual things?

I guarantee you that you are indeed walking through the muckety muck of the world just like the rest of believers are and that because you would have to be here on earth in order to create and answer these posts, unless you are typing away in heaven on some cloud.
My body is. I'm not :)

You go to sleep and wake up every morning don't you?
He gives to His beloved in sleep.

You have a job that you go to don't you?
Of course not lol.

You live in a house don't you?
My body lives in a house. I live above. :)


Well then, you are definitely here in the muckety muck of the world, that is, you are exposed to it. While it is true that we are raised and seated in heavenly places, meaning that those positions for believers are set in stone, guaranteed, we have yet to literally experience life in those glorified bodies, yet the promise of it is a done deal, waiting for us.
You see this is where you are so sadly lacking. You have turned the spiritual Scriptures into muckety muck living with all your concentration on this earth. Even your hopes are fixed on this earth with your fantasy millennium. You seemingly can't lift your mind and heart to things above. But I live in heavenly places with Christ. I see the real truths of Scripture. I battle in those heavenly places. I pray in those heavenly places. My mind is set on things above. I walk with Christ and talk things over with my Father. I am daily with them and they with me.

Scripture also states that we have inherited all things through Christ, which means those things are guaranteed for us, which we will receive when we are gathered to him, (my reward is with me) but the truth is, we have yet to literally receive and experience them.
How sad that you are only looking forward to those things which Christ wants you to enjoy NOW. You need to set your mind upon things above, NOT ON THINGS ON THE EARTH WHETHER PRESENT OR FUTURE. That is why you are bogged down.

You currently are not wearing that robe of righteousness,
Of course I am wearing the robe of righteousness. How else could I enjoy my Father's presence?

nor do you have the name of God the Father, Jesus Christ and the New Jerusalem written on your forehead.
Haven't you been sealed by the Spirit? That is even more sad. My name is graven on the palm of His hands. I have on me this seal, 'the Lord knows those who are His'. Of course I have their names written on my forehead. I belong to them.


You have also not received a white stone with a new name on it
yes I have received the white stone. I am accepted in the Beloved.

nor have you received your victor's crown, etc.
That waits but that comes at the end off my life in heavenly places.

Therefore, though we have been raised with Christ and are seated in heavenly places, we are not yet literally experiencing those guaranteed positions with Christ.
Make your mind up. Have you been raised and seated with Him or not? If you had then you would be enjoying all the things you mentioned.

Not until the resurrection and catching away takes place will we literally experience those positions.
Look if you want to stay in the muckety muck of the world, do so. I prefer it here in the heavenly places :)
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#50
Jesus said we are IN THE WORLD not of the WORLD.
That says it all. Our bodies in the world, but we should NOT be of the world. We should be living in heavenly places.

That is spelled 'muckety-muck'...unless you are one of those sinless perfect people living above the rest of us.
Look, you may live a muckety muck life. But that is not what Christ intended for us. I prefer to live in the heavenly places. Yes I am sinlessly perfect in God's eyes, I am clothed with the cloak of Christ's righteousness, I seek that my mind be fixed with Christ on God, I seek those things which are above, I walk with Him and talk with Him, I battle with spiritual wickedness in those heavenly places, but I do it from Christ's throne. Live in the muckety muck of the world if you want to, I prefer to walk with Him in heavenly places.
 
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49

Guest
#51
You mean you don't know? That's sad. It has to be experienced to be understood. Daily I walk with Christ, talk with my Father, enjoy their indwelling, receive revelation through His word, battle with hosts of wickedness in those heavenly places, pull down strongholds, act as His ambassador, talk over with my Father the things that are according to His will, and keep my mind on things above. None of this is of this world.
Why is it sad? My question was asked out of curiosity and for growth in my walk with God, to learn and discern.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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#52
Originally Posted by valiant
You mean you don't know? That's sad. It has to be experienced to be understood. Daily I walk with Christ, talk with my Father, enjoy their indwelling, receive revelation through His word, battle with hosts of wickedness in those heavenly places, pull down strongholds, act as His ambassador, talk over with my Father the things that are according to His will, and keep my mind on things above. None of this is of this world.
Why is it sad? My question was asked out of curiosity and for growth in my walk with God, to learn and discern.
Its sad because it suggests that you are not yet experiencing the fullness of your walk with Christ. But if it helps you to see what God has for you then it will be truly joyous :)

Remember, two men looked out from prison bars,
One saw dirt and one saw stars.

Let your eyes be on things above not on the muckety muck of this world. Let Christ live out His life through you. Set your mind to live with Him in the spiritual realm with your thoughts taken up with Him. Walk with Him amidst the busyness of this world. Live ABOVE the world with Him. Recognise your exalted position in Christ. Let it fashion your life. God bless you.
 
4

49

Guest
#53
Its sad because it suggests that you are not yet experiencing the fullness of your walk with Christ. But if it helps you to see what God has for you then it will be truly joyous :)

Remember, two men looked out from prison bars,
One saw dirt and one saw stars.

Let your eyes be on things above not on the muckety muck of this world. Let Christ live out His life through you. Set your mind to live with Him in the spiritual realm with your thoughts taken up with Him. Walk with Him amidst the busyness of this world. Live ABOVE the world with Him. Recognise your exalted position in Christ. Let it fashion your life. God bless you.
Not experiencing the fullness of my walk with Christ yet, but He sure has brought about much change and insight in my personal life and nature. Thank you for the reply sir; God bless you as well.