The "Five-Fold Ministry"

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is today's "Five-Fold Ministry" legitimate?

  • yes

    Votes: 8 80.0%
  • no

    Votes: 2 20.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I'm talking about the Apostolic Church not the New Apostolic Church; they are two differnt groups. So you might look it up again. I'm talking about the group formed in 1916.
ok.
the foundation is....what?
a belief in modern Apostles and Prophets, correct?
the New is just new people jonathan. the foundation is the same.

During the Welsh Revival (1904-05) over one hundred thousand people were converted. Many of them called themselves the "Children of the Revival." One such group held meetings in a house in Penygroes, Llanelli, U.K. In February 1910 they opened a building called 'The Evangelical Church', Penygroes. During the Revival some had experienced speaking in tongues and prophecy. In the new church these manifestations of the gifts of the Holy Spirit began to be heard more frequently. A miner Mr. D.P. Williams (1882-1947) began to attend some of the services. He had been converted in the Revival on 25 December 1904 when Mr. Evan Roberts, the Revivalist, laid his hands on him. He became a well known preacher in the Independent (Congregational) chapels in and around Penygroes and was baptised in the Holy Spirit in 1909. This experience brought him to a time of decision. He decided to leave the Independents and joined the Evangelical Church in 1910. He was baptised in water and shortly after that visited Pastor W.O. Hutchinson's Emmanuel Mission Hall in Bournemouth where he and a friend were greatly blessed.

In December 1910 a prophecy was given in Emmanuel Mission Hall indicating that Pastor Hutchinson and a Mr. J. Dennis should go to Penygroes and anoint "the Lord's Servant" at a farm where a number of people would gather without any prior arrangement. They went to Penygroes and ministered in the Evangelical Church. They were asked to go with Mr. D.P. Williams to a farm to pray for a sick child. A company of people had met at the farm and during a time of prayer Mr. J. Dennis gave a word of prophecy in which Mr. D.P. Williams was named as "the shepherd of His people". The prophecy given previously in Bournemouth was then read to those present and Mr. D.P. Williams was ordained. Although this ordination was not accepted by many of the members of the Evangelical Church a further prophecy in the assembly early in 1911 indicated that "the one ordained" should be the leader and this was accepted.

In May 1911 the assembly in Bournemouth was described in the magazine as "The Apostolic Faith Church" and by the end of the year there were six assemblies in Scotland, eleven in England, and thirteen in Wales. All were in active fellowship with the Bournemouth church. The Apostolic Faith Church was the first Pentecostal Denomination founded in Britain....

...

In 1916 Pastor R. Jardine and Pastor E.C.W. Boulton (as the Prophet) ministered for two weeks in a Pentecostal assembly called "The Burning Bush" in Glasgow, Scotland. Pastor Jardine wrote to Pastor D.P. Williams and told him he had met - "a man of God in Glasgow, there are mighty deeds done through him in the Name of Jesus". This man was Pastor A. Turnbull who had opened a Pentecostal Assembly in Portobello, Edinburgh, Scotland with Mr. J. Ferguson in 1912 and had became part of the Apostolic Faith Church. During 1918 Pastor Turnbull heard of a group of "pentecostal believers in Wales, who were convinced of the efficacy of directive prophecy". Prophecy and visions confirmed that the group in Wales should be contacted and Pastors D.P. Williams and W.J. Williams (he had been recognised as a Prophet in 1913) were invited to Glasgow. They paid another visit a year later during which the leaders of the "Burning Bush" decided to become part of the Apostolic Church. In that same year the Pentecostal Assembly in Smethwick, Birmingham also decided to join the Apostolic Church.

Apostolic Church UK | History
 
Aug 18, 2011
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Question folks.

Since there are no apostles today and haven't been since John, is it reasonable to assume that we, in modern times, would disregard any who claim of apostleship or the ability to perform miracles such as healing etc. based soley on scripture.
How will we recognize the end times then?
Do we wait until the temple is built again?
Just curious!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Question folks.

Since there are no apostles today and haven't been since John, is it reasonable to assume that we, in modern times, would disregard any who claim of apostleship or the ability to perform miracles such as healing etc. based soley on scripture.!
what's your best guess?
what's a miracle for?

can you find ANY church organization today claiming new prophets and apostles that DOESN'T teach false doctrine?
the very claim overthrowns the foundation already laid.

How will we recognize the end times then?
Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

John 4:48
"Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders," Jesus told him, "you will never believe."

2 Thessalonians 2:9
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,

Revelation 13:13
And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
 
Oct 2, 2011
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Only if you count Judas Iscarriot are there 14. I believe we all know that Judas no longer counts. The Bible really teaches that there were 13. Paul did not replace Judas. Mattias replaced Judas at the beginning of Acts; this was prophesied. That makes 12, but Paul makes 13. Paul is proof you did not have to be one of Jesus disciples to become an apostle. Paul was a Pharisee in the time of Jesus' earthly ministry. Paul is also proof you can have more than 12 apostles. I believe that the 12 apostles are the ones mentioned in Revelation but Paul is still number 13. That makes the 12 special apostles but not the only apostles.
What about James and Barnabas? They are both called apostles in the scriptures.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
Well, you DO have to be one of His disciples, but not one of the original 12, and you do not have to have seen Him prior to His death and resurrection. Many have had visitations from Him, which has nothing to do with His second coming. Visitations from the Lord were in the OT, the NT and today...still NT, BTW.
Maggie
 
A

Abiding

Guest
Well, you DO have to be one of His disciples, but not one of the original 12, and you do not have to have seen Him prior to His death and resurrection. Many have had visitations from Him, which has nothing to do with His second coming. Visitations from the Lord were in the OT, the NT and today...still NT, BTW.
Maggie
How are you sure of who visited them? what is these visited peoples doctrine?
How does this fit with:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)1 Peter 1:8
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:


I spose we just trust them?? I want to see their doctrine.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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How are you sure of who visited them? what is these visited peoples doctrine?
How does this fit with:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)1 Peter 1:8
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:


I spose we just trust them?? I want to see their doctrine.
AMEN!
so do i.
enough is enough i say.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
Their "doctrine' is Jesus, the Son of God, God incarnate, on the Cross, crucified, died, buried and risen.

What more do you want??
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Their "doctrine' is Jesus, the Son of God, God incarnate, on the Cross, crucified, died, buried and risen.

What more do you want??
i personally would like examples of the extra-biblical revelation being given, and would like to know why the universal church is not holding councils to add to canon.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
Zone: "i personally would like examples of the extra-biblical revelation being given, and would like to know why the universal church is not holding councils to add to canon." [COLOR="Purple"EXTRA Biblical?? Well, it's not there. It ALL falls under the text of the Bible. Just because YOU do not understand HOW does NOT make it "extra" Biblical. And the Church does not add to the canon, because it is forbidden! Duh...which you already know.

Maggie[/COLOR]
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
[COLOR="Black Zone: "i personally would like examples of the extra-biblical revelation being given, and would like to know why the universal church is not holding councils to add to canon.[/COLOR]" [COLOR=Purple "EXTRA Biblical?? Well, it's not there. It ALL falls under the text of the Bible. Just because YOU do not understand HOW does NOT make it "extra" Biblical. And the Church does not add to the canon, because it is forbidden! Duh...which you already know.

Maggie[/COLOR]
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
OK...something wrong here...won't let me delete or change color~~~
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Zone: "i personally would like examples of the extra-biblical revelation being given, and would like to know why the universal church is not holding councils to add to canon."

maggie:
Biblical?? Well, it's not there. It ALL falls under the text of the Bible. Just because YOU do not understand HOW does NOT make it "extra" Biblical. And the Church does not add to the canon, because it is forbidden! Duh...which you already know.

Maggie
then what are the prophets and apostles for if

1) they don't do or say anything outside what's in "the Text"
2) they know ADDING TO CANON is forbidden?...they just float their stuff on the internet and call it a TKO?

duh.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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We do not have books of the Bible from all of the apostles; it's absurd and unmerited to think that a modern day apostle would have to add to cannon.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
Their "doctrine' is Jesus, the Son of God, God incarnate, on the Cross, crucified, died, buried and risen.

What more do you want??
that doesnt deal with that verse...was Peter mistaken?
Because of that verse and that verse only...when i hear
someone say they saw Jesus personally and had a talk..
im out of there. I label them false...in a microsecond.

What more do i want? I want to know why they lied about seeing and talking to Jesus.
And its very common to teach truth with additional lies to scatter the flock and injure
their walk with extrabiblical traditions. That make the word of God of none effect.
 
Last edited:
Aug 1, 2009
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then what are the prophets and apostles for if

1) they don't do or say anything outside what's in "the Text"
2) they know ADDING TO CANON is forbidden?...they just float their stuff on the internet and call it a TKO?

duh.
The apostles and prophets were called to do more than write the NT scriptures and I'm pretty sure you know that. So, I'm certain you know what the role of a modern prophet or apostle would involve today- if not, I'll leave that up to your personal study.


ADDING books as scripture has never been forbidden, adding or taking away from any of the books themselves is forbidden.

From the beginning of the scriptures with Moses God has said:

"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." -Deut. 4:2

"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it." -Deut. 12:32

And yet you find how many books written after God has sent the command not to add or take away from what He commanded that are included as scripture????

Some who believed actually did not accept ANY of the prophets or the writings that followed, because of their misunderstanding that they were not supposed to add or take away from the commands themselves.

Jesus certainly challenged such an interpretation of scripture when he said "a NEW command I give you".

Revelation says not to add or take away from the prophecies of its book. In the same manner we weren't supposed to add or remove from the commands that God gave us in Duet.

Besides that, there are even books of scripture mentioned that we don't even have today. Does that bother me? Not at all. Nothing else ever written would ever contradict the scriptures that we have today, only add to its witness.

If there happens to be someone who demonstrates the signs of an apostle and doesn't contradict the pure word of God, I will be happy to count their word as authoritative if they pass the test of scripture (Acts 17:11; Rev. 2:2; 2 Cor. 11:14-15; Mat. 7:20). I've just never seen or heard of such a person, but I'm not going to shut a person out who qualifies.
 
Aug 1, 2009
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I understand my last post opens up a mountain of concerns for most, but it is in line with the witness of the scriptures.

That being said, I'm not suggesting we need to add to scripture or look to do so. The heart of the issue for me is the unity of the saints under the proper doctrine and teaching through the ministers God has given us.

"Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you, but [that] you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." - 1 Cor 1:10
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
..............................
Are 38,000 man-made denominations and traditions of men, each teaching differing, contradictory "gospels", legitimate? Which one is the Church that Christ founded?
Or are none of them the Church that Christ founded! Yes! That is the Truth!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
We do not have books of the Bible from all of the apostles; it's absurd and unmerited to think that a modern day apostle would have to add to cannon.
what is God revealing to modern day prophets?
why wouldn't their authoritative knowledge be added to what His foundational saints did?