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M82 is a galaxy, not a supernova (supernovas are something you can find within a galaxy). It has radio emissions, x-ray emissions, visible light emissions, etc. It was first seen in 1774 by Johann Elert Bode. Pierre Méchain independently found it again in 1779 and reported it to Charles Messier, who measured its position and recorded it as the 82nd object in his catalogue in 1781.
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Actually I do not think that the object called M82 is a galaxy or a supernova, it is being labelled incorrectly, the celestrial cloud 'M82' is similar to the celestrial clouds of the 'Milky Way', these are celestrial 'mirages', they are not 'clusters of billions of stars', or 'invisible stars' or 'obscured stars', that is absurd, neither are they millions of light years away.
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This is a quote of yours from another thread which I did not know what you where on about, so after reading a few pages of this thread I fully understand now where you are coming from.
So I am not even going to try and put forth any comment as enough has been produced to prove the topic otherwise.
One hears and reads about deception and this really wins hands down.
All I can say is Cup-of-Ruin, I really do not want to know what your interpretation on verses in Revelation would be! aaih ya yai! (shakes head in disbelief)
So I am not even going to try and put forth any comment as enough has been produced to prove the topic otherwise.
One hears and reads about deception and this really wins hands down.
All I can say is Cup-of-Ruin, I really do not want to know what your interpretation on verses in Revelation would be! aaih ya yai! (shakes head in disbelief)
Exactly. But in what sense? Spherical sense? Or flat dome sense? The circle of the earth is the equator. But at this time they did not know the earth was spherical. Their idea of the earth was a hemispherical dome. If you went over the edges of this circle circumference you'd drop off , or , there was some sort of border or somethign to stop you going past it, like a mountain range. That's why it refers to the heavens like a canopy and a tent that is spread out over the top of you, rather than being wrapped all around you in the spherical sense.
Purely looking at the horizon alone will not indicate that the earth is spherical - because you are only looking at a very small part. You'd have to view the horizon from many points around the earth to conclude it is spherical - and I don't think any of the bible men in the old testament travelled that far. It could be hemispherical as I said before, or the very slight apparent curvature of the earth in the distance can be explained by light distortion and illusions due to a curved hemispherical dome sky. There is no evidence from the bible whatsover that the earth is spherical, none.
They could not have known the earth was spherical unless they travelled into space or around the world. Considering they lived all their life in a small regional area not to mention not being near any sort of great ocean from which to observe any horizon easily, I consider that very unlikely.
The surrounding nations of Israel had flat-earth ideas, Babylon, Egypt etc, considering that Israel spent 400 years in Egypt plus some time in Babylon and other nations during exile, it is likely they also had flat-earth views. As neighbors, the ancient Hebrews had the Egyptians to the southwest and the Babylonians to the northeast. Both civilizations had flat-earth cosmologies. The Biblical cosmology closely parallels the Sumero-Babylonian cosmology, and it may also draw upon Egyptian cosmology.
The bible uses the word tent to describe the heavens. Obviously a tent does not wrap completely around like a bag. It descibes a covering over the top of the earth rather than something which is wrapped entirely around. If the earth was spherical, better language to use would be that God wrapped the heavens around the earth like a bag and it doesn't say that at all.
They could not have known the earth was spherical unless they travelled into space or around the world. Considering they lived all their life in a small regional area not to mention not being near any sort of great ocean from which to observe any horizon easily, I consider that very unlikely.
The surrounding nations of Israel had flat-earth ideas, Babylon, Egypt etc, considering that Israel spent 400 years in Egypt plus some time in Babylon and other nations during exile, it is likely they also had flat-earth views. As neighbors, the ancient Hebrews had the Egyptians to the southwest and the Babylonians to the northeast. Both civilizations had flat-earth cosmologies. The Biblical cosmology closely parallels the Sumero-Babylonian cosmology, and it may also draw upon Egyptian cosmology.
The bible uses the word tent to describe the heavens. Obviously a tent does not wrap completely around like a bag. It descibes a covering over the top of the earth rather than something which is wrapped entirely around. If the earth was spherical, better language to use would be that God wrapped the heavens around the earth like a bag and it doesn't say that at all.
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Well that has to be the most anti-biblical diatribes I have heard from you 'Snail, what you have said is false in every sense and the type of uneducated debating I would expect from most atheists.
I have already addressed all these issues in previous posts, along with your cynical and subversive attitude towards Bible truths which you assualt with subtlety and cunning.
I have already addressed all these issues in previous posts, along with your cynical and subversive attitude towards Bible truths which you assualt with subtlety and cunning.
Yet Cup of Ruin you provided no historical or scientific evidence to the contrary. Do you have any evidence that the Egyptians, Babylonians, and ancient Hebrews believed in a spherical earth? Well it will do you no good quoting from the book of Enoch for one, as it is one of the most flat-earth scripture's existing. I'm happy to change my viewpoint if you have such evidence. Until then, all I know is that the Biblical cosmology closely parallels the Sumero-Babylonian cosmology, and it may also draw upon Egyptian cosmology. So where is your evidence???
In the old testament, there was a word for ball they could have easily used if they believed in a spherical earth, but scripture uses the word for circle- and circles are two dimensional objects. Why don't they use the word for ball if they knew the earth was spherical? Let's not call God a liar by claiming that the bible says something it does not say.
In the old testament, there was a word for ball they could have easily used if they believed in a spherical earth, but scripture uses the word for circle- and circles are two dimensional objects. Why don't they use the word for ball if they knew the earth was spherical? Let's not call God a liar by claiming that the bible says something it does not say.
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Also, the logical interpretation of the Isaiah verse, is that God sits on top of the earth above its circle (the equator) and looks down upon everyone like they are grasshoppers... but it does not say God looks underneath and sees those living underneath the earth as well!. It doesn't have to because it is a flat earth, circular cosmology described, and not a spherical earth. So where does the bible say God looks upon the earth from underneath?
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