The GAP Theory

[Ballaurena]

'translations' - plural
'point blank' - literal wording, including the word 'became' as a requirement for validity-of-claim
'say' - in the actual bible text, as opposed to a reference like Strong's.

I would like to see the "point blank" statements in those at-least-two [different] KJV 'translations'.

Which printings of the KJV should I look at to find those statements?

If you want to know, look it up yourself. My point is that there are good reasons for people to have varied opinions on the matter. Although I will clarify and acknowledge that while there are many KJV translations (if there weren't, it would be indecipherable to modern English speakers), I do only know definitively of one that translated the verse this way - whichever one my mom ended up with when I was a kid.

And for the record, I did do a word study on the topic, including with a Strong's-type reference, and I found that the translation of 'became' was somewhere between a reasonable, and a preferable translation to English. Obviously you will have to decide for yourself.

 

[Ballaurena]

what evidence do you have?

And what leads you to believe the events were not at the same time? Hebrew literature uses this type of writting all the time.

1. A general statement (And God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning, and the earth happened to be, to become, was in this state as without form and void (the beginning state)

2. A longer more in depth discussion of the process of creation. as in 7 days.

3. A more in depth study yet of one aspect of his creation (mankind)

Its one thing to agree to disagree. but we should be mocking each others beliefs..

Thank you for sharing. Obviously I see it differently than you, and I was reading to learn. I trust Holy Spirit to be there to correct what is really needed when we do.

I'm glad you agree on not mocking anyone's beliefs. Some of those things said of gap theorists were quite inappropriate, and it's possible that there were words said the other way though if so I missed them.

 

[Ballaurena]

Who am I? A Bible-believing Christian who has diligently studied the Word of God.

The Gap Theory is not only bogus but should be dismissed out of hand by Bible-believing Christians. So do you seriously believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God? If so believe this for starters:

1. NOTHING EXISTED BEFORE THIS EARH (AND THE UNIVERSE) WERE CREATED (Heb 11:3)
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. What does this verse reveal?
1. It is only through faith that we will believe the creation account given in Genesis by God. Gap theorists would rather trust man or the claims of evolution "scientists"/geologists.
2. "The worlds (plural) were framed" encompasses the whole universe, not just this earth.
3. "By the Word of God". God SPOKE the universe into existence. Indeed Jesus -- the eternal Word of God -- was assigned by God the Father to become the Creator (John 1:1). This automatically dismisses evolution or the Big Bang theory.
4. "Were made of things which do appear". This effectively states that nothing existed before creation (Genesis chapter 1). The may have existed only in the minds of God and Christ. It boggles the mind when we think of the intricate design of plants, animals, and man.

2. CREATION WAS LIMITED TO SIX DAYS
So if nothing existed before creation then everything was created in six literal 24-hour days. For the human mind this is incomprehensible. But for God, even one day would have sufficed . But He chose a six-day work week in anticipation of mankind's work week. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.(Gen 1:31; 2:1,2).

3. THOSE SEVEN DAYS WERE THE SAME AS AN ORDINARY WEEK
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

COCLUSIONS: THE EARTH IS NOT BILLIONS OR MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD. THERE WAS NO PRE-ADAMITE EARTH. THERE WAS NO LUCIFER ON ANY PLANET. HENCE THE GAP THEORY IS NONSENSE.

So how should one interpret Genesis 1:2? And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1. "Without form" -- not made into the global sphere with its precise properties. Just a solid mass (probably clay with no precise shape) surrounded by a deep covering of water ('the deep").
2. "Void" -- having absolutely no life forms *(which began to appear on day three as vegetation).
3. "Darkness" -- no cosmic light until day one. God creates both light and darkness. He chose to let darkness exist previously.

Only the triune God existed in eternity past. "I AM ALPHA". And God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all.

You didn't listen at all to what I said, especially about how I came to my conclusions, and you certainly aren't listening to God on this since, as I previously noted, He has spoken things contrary to your understanding. Yet you stubbornly and arrogantly insist that your interpretation and understanding of those verses is the correct one.

When you really want the truth of the matter, you can try humbly seeking God for yourself. In the meantime, I request that you repent of you libel against me. I am a creationist and I have always been a creationist even to the point of a pretty uncomfortable conversation with one of my professors in college that made me wonder if I was the very reason the program got dropped entirely by my university after my being there. In fact, quite contrary to your accusations against my character of giving-in to worldly pressures, I have been standing hard for God, even against adults, since I was 5 years old. So who are you to now accuse me of giving-in to pressure from evolutionists and the like??? If you think saying you are a well-researched Bible-believing Christian is sufficient, then you have missed the point - twice.

I couldn't and wouldn't read much of what you wrote after your false accusations against me and others, and implied dismissal of my/our Christian walk(s). Considering how poorly you considered my words, I certainly don't owe it to you to consider yours.

 

[Inquisitor]

While this is a technically correct general statement with regard to the omnipotence of God, we should also remember that just because God can do as He pleases does not mean that He has chosen to do so according to the most far-fetched possible whims of the imaginations of man.

What the Bible shows us about the character of God must be consulted and considered.

One of the things the Bible shows us about God is that He is very direct - He does not "waste motions" with anything that He does. Every last detail of what He does and how He does it - He does it according to His own righteous purpose without any "foolishness" whatsoever.


The one line that is worth drawing in the sand is the one that separates truth from error.

Of course, depending on the type and degree/level of error - not all disagreements should result in the total disruption of fellowship between Christians - being peaceable with all men (Romans 12:18) should certainly be most prevalent between born-again believers.

However, there are some that should raise a warning flag of awareness - to help keep us from deception and the clutches of evil.

You should be aware that fossils of whales have been found in the Sahara Desert.

The Sahara Desert is the largest desert in the world, 9 million square km.

Egypt is on the border of the Sahara Desert.

When the pyramids were built the Sahara was a savannah, not a desert.

The experts said that the climate of North Africa changed approximately seven thousand years ago.

You can fly over to Egypt join a tourist group and go and see the fossils, they are abundant.

In fact, you can dig some fossils up yourself.

The evidence for an old earth is every where.

 

[Inquisitor]

You can't have it both ways, since the six-day creation account effectively cancels any Gap Theory.

The Gap Theory was created by men trying to accommodate the evolutionist geologists who claimed that the earth was millions of years old. "Proponents of the gap theory often use it to explain the existence of fossils and geological formations that are commonly regarded as being millions of years old. They propose that these fossils and formations belong to the pre-Adamite era and were preserved through the catastrophe that caused the gap."

And the pre-Adamite era includes the fantasy that Lucifer was king over the earth.

You are arguing against the observable evidence found all over the world.

The evidence of fossils under the ice in Greenland.

The earth has undergone climate change many, many, times in the past.

Greenland was not always a frozen wasteland.

Scientists have only discovered in the last hundred years. That the earth was not the
way it appears in the modern era.

You can push your head deeper into the sand and ignore these discoveries.

Or you can do the research and understand the observable truth.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You are arguing against the observable evidence found all over the world.

And you are rejecting divine revelation. The so-called evidence is no evidence.

 

[Clayman]

You are arguing against the observable evidence found all over the world.

The evidence of fossils under the ice in Greenland.

I live closer to Antarctica they also have found evidence of a savannah under the ice there as well.

The earth has undergone climate change many, many, times in the past.

Greenland was not always a frozen wasteland.

Scientists have only discovered in the last hundred years. That the earth was not the
way it appears in the modern era.

took them long enough

You can push your head deeper into the sand and ignore these discoveries.

Or you can do the research and understand the observable truth.

Where I live and work we have found sharks teeth in the hills and a workmate pointed out to me that this land obviously rose up out of the sea, I laughed and said an inch at a time over a millions of years no wonder these sharks got caught out and died here, he retorted and said nah they died in the sea before it was lifted... anyway after retorts and mocking back and forth I just said makes more sense for a global flood to have happened recently explains how teeth are here and how they haven't decayed away into dust etc.

Also at a pit here where I live and work that was dug up recently people could see all the sediment layers showing the so called long ages, then right down through the all these layers a tree was fossilised standing up or upside down, and you can see it very clearly mixed into the layers millions of years apart, this was brilliant, people who seen it knew then it was a flood that deposited the layers and the tree, and began to doubt so called evolutionary science that says we are millions of years old.

My observation agrees with the bible account of a world wide flood recently, and all I can see when I look at this earth with my eyes is a young earth.

 

[SaysWhat]

I live closer to Antarctica they also have found evidence of a savannah under the ice there as well. took them long enough
Where I live and work we have found sharks teeth in the hills and a workmate pointed out to me that this land obviously rose up out of the sea, I laughed and said an inch at a time over a millions of years no wonder these sharks got caught out and died here, he retorted and said nah they died in the sea before it was lifted... anyway after retorts and mocking back and forth I just said makes more sense for a global flood to have happened recently explains how teeth are here and how they haven't decayed away into dust etc.

Also at a pit here where I live and work that was dug up recently people could see all the sediment layers showing the so called long ages, then right down through the all these layers a tree was fossilised standing up or upside down, and you can see it very clearly mixed into the layers millions of years apart, this was brilliant, people who seen it knew then it was a flood that deposited the layers and the tree, and began to doubt so called evolutionary science that says we are millions of years old.

My observation agrees with the bible account of a world wide flood recently, and all I can see when I look at this earth with my eyes is a young earth.

No land mass on the planet moves that slow an inch in millions of years, its way way faster than that.

Nanga Parbat in Pakistan is the fastest growing mountain range on earth, rising at a rate of 0.27 inches per year.

 

[Clayman]

No land mass on the planet moves that slow an inch in millions of years, its way way faster than that.

Nanga Parbat in Pakistan is the fastest growing mountain range on earth, rising at a rate of 0.27 inches per year.

And sometimes mountains decline or go into reverse gear, maybe I was speaking rhetorically of an average I plucked out of thin air for the so called millions of years.

 

[daisyseesthesun]

I dont know if believe is the right word many of us have a gap theory, but we won't know until we reach heaven if it's correct or not.

 

[GaryA]

Nope, the period can indicate a gap. There are plenty examples of this in scripture.

Then let's see some of those plenty of examples in scripture.

 

[GaryA]

If no gap, when and where did Lucifer’s fall take place?

All we know for sure is that it was after creation week - we are not given any more detail than that.

 

[GaryA]

If you want to know, look it up yourself. My point is that there are good reasons for people to have varied opinions on the matter. Although I will clarify and acknowledge that while there are many KJV translations (if there weren't, it would be indecipherable to modern English speakers), I do only know definitively of one that translated the verse this way - whichever one my mom ended up with when I was a kid.

You are not even willing to tell me what translation your mom had???

How am I supposed to look up something that is purely based on your memory? And, why should I waste my time and effort looking for something that is only hearsay or wishful thinking? (your wishful thinking)

If you only know of one version translated with 'became' - why did you indicate in a matter-of-fact way that there were many more than that?

 

[John146]

Then let's see some of those plenty of examples in scripture.

There are many gaps in scripture. Such as the gap between Daniel 9:24-27, talking about Daniel’s prophecy of the seventy weeks. In verses 24-26, we see the first 69 weeks leave us at the Cross. Then in verse 27, the last week, is the Tribulation that has not taken place yet. That is a 2,000 year gap in scripture.

A comma in Isaiah 61:1-3 makes a gap. In verses 1-2a, we see the first coming of Christ. Then in verses 2b-3, we see the second coming of Christ. The comma in verse 2 gives a 2,000 year gap.

 

[John146]

All we know for sure is that it was after creation week - we are not given any more detail than that.

Where did the darkness come from? God is light, in him is no darkness at all. God divided the light from the darkness. Why? Because light is good and darkness is evil. Darkness is associated with Satan.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

 

[Ballaurena]

You are not even willing to tell me what translation your mom had???

How am I supposed to look up something that is purely based on your memory? And, why should I waste my time and effort looking for something that is only hearsay or wishful thinking? (your wishful thinking)

If you only know of one version translated with 'became' - why did you indicate in a matter-of-fact way that there were many more than that?

I am called only to point people to the truth. It is up to each person to decide if they want it badly enough to go after it. Did I possibly misspeak very slightly? Yes, I have already acknowledged as much. Tripping-up on the technicalities of a minor miscommunication, though, suggests someone who doesn't want the truth very badly at all. How you respond with what I have given you (meaning going forward, not so much back to me) is up to you.

I will only answer you again if humility and a true hunger for the truth are sufficiently evident. Chances are that you won't need me again, though, if you have truly taken up your responsibilities for yourself.

 

[GaryA]

I am called only to point people to the truth.

But, you have not actually pointed to anything. Instead, you have only made an unsubstantiated claim.

No one is called to make wild declarations and speculations without some measure of showing forth how and why they came to such a conclusion.

It is up to each person to decide if they want it badly enough to go after it.

I do not want badly enough to chase phantoms based on hearsay.

Did I possibly misspeak very slightly?

You did a whole lot more than simply "misspeak" - you made an unmitigated declaration about the best-known and most-trusted [English] Bible version of the Word of God.

I would not recommend being so bold unless you really know what you are talking about and are willing to show others the evidence to prove it.

Yes, I have already acknowledged as much.

I do not recall seeing that - where did you do such as that?

Tripping-up on the technicalities of a minor miscommunication, though, suggests someone who doesn't want the truth very badly at all.

No tripping here.

It was not a minor miscommunication.

Anyone serious about the truth is not going to "toy around with" the Word of God.

Rather, they are going to say what they mean, mean what they say, and be willing to back up what they have said - and, above all - show respect for the Word of God. And, being "willy-nilly" about the words and meaning of the Word of God is not showing respect for the Word of God.

How you respond with what I have given you (meaning going forward, not so much back to me) is up to you.

My future response to you will probably be to take [everything you say concerning a biblical topic] "with a grain of salt" - as the saying goes.

I will only answer you again if humility and a true hunger for the truth are sufficiently evident.

Don't bother to give any answers - the very extent of your [insinuated self-proclaimed self-promoted suggested] "authority" of scripture - such that no one should question what you say about it or your interpretation of it - shows the sheer magnitude of your monstrous pride.

Do yourself and everyone else a favor - stop posting on biblical topics until you show a true humility and a true hunger for the truth:

1) Be willing to admit it when you have made an error.

2) Be willing to "go the distance" to correct that error.

3) Do not say things or introduce ideas for which you are not willing to continue with in-depth discussion.

Making "one-off" statements - that you expect others to accept and believe just because you have said it - only create problems.

If you are not willing to entertain continued discussion about something - it is probably better if you keep it to yourself.

4) Swallow your pride and try to have honest-and-sincere decent-and-orderly discussion with others.

1 Corinthians 14:

40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

 

[GaryA]

There are many gaps in scripture. Such as the gap between Daniel 9:24-27, talking about Daniel’s prophecy of the seventy weeks. In verses 24-26, we see the first 69 weeks leave us at the Cross. Then in verse 27, the last week, is the Tribulation that has not taken place yet. That is a 2,000 year gap in scripture.

A comma in Isaiah 61:1-3 makes a gap. In verses 1-2a, we see the first coming of Christ. Then in verses 2b-3, we see the second coming of Christ. The comma in verse 2 gives a 2,000 year gap.

There is no gap in Daniel 9:24-27. Please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

I did not say there were no "gaps" indicated or illustrated [anywhere] in scripture; rather, I said there was no gap between verse 1 and verse 2 of Genesis 1.

For each instance that may be in question, the context, etc. must be considered. The nature of the context in Isaiah 61 is much different than in Genesis 1.

In Genesis 1, there is no break in the continuity of the passage - verse 2 flows directly out of verse 1 - as a description of the physical state of the newly created earth.

There is no gap.

 

[GaryA]

Where did the darkness come from? God is light, in him is no darkness at all. God divided the light from the darkness. Why? Because light is good and darkness is evil. Darkness is associated with Satan.

It is describing the physical nature of the physical earth when it was created.

 

[John146]

It is describing the physical nature of the physical earth when it was created.

God is light, in him is not darkness at all. And yet, you are claiming when he made the heaven and the earth, God made it in darkness. Darkness is associated with sin and the power of Satan. The fall of Lucifer caused the darkness.