The Gospel Demands Radical Sacrifice - David Platt

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#61
Christ is our “Sabbath rest”, not any one day of the week. (Matthew 11:28-30)
No mention of the Sabbath in those text
(Hebrews 4).
Please expound so I know where you are coming from.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. - Romans 14:5-6a
No mention of the Sabbath there either. If Paul meant the Sabbath he would have stated it out right. We shouldn't assert what is not there.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#62
Jeremiah 31:33 - But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. So which law are you implying is written in our minds and hearts?
God had said, HE will circumcise our hearts (with the circumcision of Christ).
That thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. If thou shalt hearken (through this Christ) unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command (hearkening unto the voice of the LORD; the circumcision made without hands to keep HIS commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law; the Word; Christ) thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (HIS commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law; the Word; Christ) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart (the circumcision made without hands), that thou mayest do it. This the FAITH in which we preach. For we are the epistle of Christ , Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God. For Christ (In our hearts, minds, and mouths) is the end of the Law (that which is written with ink and tables of stone) for righteousness unto all that believe.


(Deu 30:8-16; Romans 10:6-8, 4,6; 2Co 3:2-5)


Are you also implying that salvation is based on the merits of obeying the 10 commandments from the old covenant? Is that what you call salvation through faith? Is that what you believe the new covenant is all about?
Christ in us the hope of Glory. Not us but Christ. He is the way the truth and the life. Without Him we can do nothing. We are a new creature in Christ Jesus. Old things have passed away; Behold all has become new and is of GOD!
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#64
In his time Jesus was certainly a radical. That's why the temple elders wanted him dead and Rome fearing his charasma with the crowds didn't object.
However, Jesus was God so his radical teaching was a good thing.

I think before we look to any front row attention pastor bringing books and teachings about getting radical as believers we should find out what the shepherd believes. This article is but two years old.
So we are to put limitations on the Faith that GOD has made available?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,298
10,049
113
55
#65
God had said, HE will circumcise our hearts (with the circumcision of Christ).
That thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. If thou shalt hearken (through this Christ) unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command (hearkening unto the voice of the LORD; the circumcision made without hands to keep HIS commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law; the Word; Christ) thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (HIS commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law; the Word; Christ) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart (the circumcision made without hands), that thou mayest do it. This the FAITH in which we preach. For we are the epistle of Christ , Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God. For Christ (In our hearts, minds, and mouths) is the end of the Law (that which is written with ink and tables of stone) for righteousness unto all that believe.

(Deu 30:8-16; Romans 10:6-8, 4,6; 2Co 3:2-5)

Christ in us the hope of Glory. Not us but Christ. He is the way the truth and the life. Without Him we can do nothing. We are a new creature in Christ Jesus. Old things have passed away; Behold all has become new and is of GOD!
It sounds to me like your hope of glory is in doing his commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law (works righteousness) and not in Christ alone. My hope of glory is in Christ alone (Romans 3:22-28; 4:4-6; 10:4; Galatians 2:16: Ephesians 2:8,9); Philippians 3:9).
 
#66
No mention of the Sabbath in those text Please expound so I know where you are coming from.

No mention of the Sabbath there either. If Paul meant the Sabbath he would have stated it out right. We shouldn't assert what is not there.
Christ is our Sabbath. The Scriptures point to Him.

It’s not about one particular day (or location). And yes, quite obviously Paul understood that when he wrote about “esteeming one day” more than another.

Hebrews 4 is also clear about believers “entering into rest.” That is the rest Christ invited all to come to Him and find for their souls when He called out to the crowds.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#68
Christ is our Sabbath. The Scriptures point to Him.
Where?

And yes, quite obviously Paul understood that when he wrote about “esteeming one day” more than another.
He did not mention the Sabbath in Romans 14. To assert that is what he meant is to assume.
Hebrews 4 is also clear about believers “entering into rest.” .
Then explain.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#69
How could you arrive at that conclusion from my post that you quoted? I never implied any such thing.
Praise GOD!
The following part of your post is why the post you posted was posted. I don't know David Platt; but if he is living and teaching the Faith of Christ what is the big deal.
I think before we look to any front row attention pastor bringing books and teachings about getting radical as believers we should find out what the shepherd believes. This article is but two years old.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#70
It sounds to me like your hope of glory is in doing his commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law (works righteousness) and not in Christ alone. My hope of glory is in Christ alone (Romans 3:22-28; 4:4-6; 10:4; Galatians 2:16: Ephesians 2:8,9); Philippians 3:9).
GOD has promised Christ; the word; HIS law in our hearts minds and mouths that we do it and that is the faith in which we preach. For Christ; the word; GOD's Law in our hearts, minds and mouths is the end of the law; that which was written with ink and tables of stone for righteousness for all that believe. A new ministration; not of the letter. For the letter killeth. Not on tables of stone but the fleshly tables of the heart. Not that our sufficiency is in and of our selves but our sufficiency is of GOD. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ; the word; God's law in us the hope of Glory. A new and living way through the veil into the holiest of all; that is His flesh. The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD.
 
#71
Throughout the entire Scriptures.

He did not mention the Sabbath in Romans 14. To assert that is what he meant is to assume.
Not at all. Paul was, by his own admission, a Pharisee who had been zealous for the Law. You think he didn’t know what it meant to esteem one day above another? Scripture is clear that worship is not tied to one specific day. Ultimately, every single day is the Lord’s and is a day He has made.

Hebrews 4 is self-explanatory. Go read it, no explanation needed.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,298
10,049
113
55
#72
GOD has promised Christ; the word; HIS law in our hearts minds and mouths that we do it and that is the faith in which we preach. For Christ; the word; GOD's Law in our hearts, minds and mouths is the end of the law; that which was written with ink and tables of stone for righteousness for all that believe. A new ministration; not of the letter. For the letter killeth. Not on tables of stone but the fleshly tables of the heart. Not that our sufficiency is in and of our selves but our sufficiency is of GOD. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ; the word; God's law in us the hope of Glory. A new and living way through the veil into the holiest of all; that is His flesh. The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD.
Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 - For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
414
83
#73
Praise GOD!
The following part of your post is why the post you posted was posted. I don't know David Platt; but if he is living and teaching the Faith of Christ what is the big deal.
Jim Jones preached the faith of Christ.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#74
Throughout the entire Scriptures.
Show me please



Not at all. Paul was, by his own admission, a Pharisee who had been zealous for the Law. You think he didn’t know what it meant to esteem one day above another? Scripture is clear that worship is not tied to one specific day. Ultimately, every single day is the Lord’s and is a day He has made.
We are not talking about worship we are speaking about the Sabbath. Romans 14 doesn't mention the Sabbath. To assume that Paul is speaking on it, is to add what is not there.


Hebrews 4 is self-explanatory. Go read it, no explanation needed.
There remaineth therefore a Rest (Sabbath observance) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel rest through Christ), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10)

Rest in verse 9 means Sabbath Observance. REST in verse 10 is in reference to the REST to which we experience through Christ.

2 different rests are being spoken about. The rest we are to experience from ceasing from physical work AS GOD did on the Seventh Day which is the Sabbath. And the REST we experience through Christ.

Remaineth in verse 9 is in the present tense. As in something that is happening. In other words They who are experiencing the rest of the Gospel through Christ cease from their own physical works as GOD did from HIS. This is, was and will forever be done on the Seventh Day; to which is called the the Sabbath.

"As" in verse 10 is a direct comparison. There is only one recorded ceasing from work to which GOD had attributed HIMSELF to and that Was done on the Seventh Day to which is the Sabbath.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#75
Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 - For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; the Law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)
What is the word of Faith to which we speak? The word (Christ; the Law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart. That is the word of faith to which we speak. For Christ (the word; the Law (Heb 8:10) in our hearts and mouths) is end of the law (written with ink and on tables of stone) for righteousness to all that believe.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#76
Jim Jones preached the faith of Christ.
I said "....I don't know David Platt; but if he is living and teaching the Faith of Christ what is the big deal."
Jim Jones did not live the Faith of Christ. By their fruits we shall know them.

What has David Platt done that makes you think or know that he is not of Christ?

Please post it and provide evidence.
 
#77
Unfortunately I do not have the time to go through the entire Bible with you on these forums. You should heed Christ’s words that the Scriptures point to Him.

We are not talking about worship we are speaking about the Sabbath. Romans 14 doesn't mention the Sabbath. To assume that Paul is speaking on it, is to add what is not there.
Paul was clear when he was inspired to write what he did regarding the esteeming of one day above another. This most definitely applies.

There remaineth therefore a Rest (Sabbath observance) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel rest through Christ), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10)

Rest in verse 9 means Sabbath Observance. REST in verse 10 is in reference to the REST to which we experience through Christ.
False. You are adding your own meaning to the text. Christ IS our Sabbath. The Sabbath always pointed to Him.

2 different rests are being spoken about. The rest we are to experience from ceasing from physical work AS GOD did on the Seventh Day which is the Sabbath. And the REST we experience through Christ.
The ceasing from work is in reference to resting in Christ Who is our salvation, knowing that we are not earning salvation by works. This is what it means to enter into rest. We do not add our own works to Christ’s finished work.

Remaineth in verse 9 is in the present tense. As in something that is happening. In other words They who are experiencing the rest of the Gospel through Christ cease from their own physical works as GOD did from HIS. This is, was and will forever be done on the Seventh Day; to which is called the the Sabbath.
False. We worship in Spirit and in Truth. It is not about a specific day or location or any other legalistic ordinance. Christ has fulfilled all things, we are not under the Law.

"As" in verse 10 is a direct comparison. There is only one recorded ceasing from work to which GOD had attributed HIMSELF to and that Was done on the Seventh Day to which is the Sabbath.
It is unfortunate that you believe putting yourself back under the Law is going to make you righteous and worthy of salvation. That is “going about to establish” your own righteousness.

It is not by works of righteousness we have done, but according to His mercy He has saved us. We have no reason to “boast” before God.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
54
HBG. Pa. USA
#78
Unfortunately I do not have the time to go through the entire Bible with you on these forums.
You have No scripture the.
You should heed Christ’s words that the Scriptures point to Him.
Amen!


Paul was clear when he was inspired to write what he did regarding the esteeming of one day above another. This most definitely applies.
The Sabbath is not mentioned in Romans 14. To add it because we assume Paul meant it is to add to the Word of GOD. This is not our place


There remaineth therefore a Rest (Sabbath observance) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel rest through Christ), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10)

Rest in verse 9 means Sabbath Observance. REST in verse 10 is in reference to the REST to which we experience through Christ.
False. You are adding your own meaning to the text. Christ IS our Sabbath. The Sabbath always pointed to Him.
No. The Greek word that is translated rest in verse 9 means Sabbath observance. And the rest mention in verse 10 goes back to
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest (the Gospel), any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
(Heb 4:1-2 KJV)

As was shared in the post you responded two. Two rests are being mentioned in the text in question. Sabbath obserbvance. A ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS. And the Gospel rest two which we enter into through Christ.



The ceasing from work is in reference to resting in Christ
No. The text says as GOD did from HIS. "as" is a direct comparrison. GOD is not resting in Christ. GOD rested on the Seventh day from all HIS works. GOD is Spirit HE did not enter into a Spiritual rest in Christ.
Who is our salvation, knowing that we are not earning salvation by works.
Amen!


"As" in verse 10 is a direct comparison. There is only one recorded ceasing from work to which GOD had attributed HIMSELF to and that Was done on the Seventh Day to which is the Sabbath.
It is unfortunate that you believe putting yourself back under the Law is going to make you righteous and worthy of salvation. That is “going about to establish” your own righteousness.
GOD has put HIS Law; Christ in our hearts; minds and mouths. It is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not I but Christ. For we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ; the law; the word liveth in us, and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of Christ.

It is not by works of righteousness we have done, but according to His mercy He has saved us. We have no reason to “boast” before God.
Amen! A new ministration. Not written with ink or on tables of stone. But on the fleshly tables of the heart.
Not that our sufficiency is in and of our selves. But our sufficiency is of GOD. For it is HE that works in us both tho will and do HIS good pleasure.
 
#79
You have No scripture the. Amen!
Christ said the Scriptures point to Him. You can believe Him or not. Your choice.

The Sabbath is not mentioned in Romans 14. To add it because we assume Paul meant it is to add to the Word of GOD. This is not our place
Please explain how Romans 14 does not apply to the insistence that every believer observe the Sabbath. How is that not esteeming one day above another and demanding that all believers do likewise?

There remaineth therefore a Rest (Sabbath observance) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel rest through Christ), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10)

Rest in verse 9 means Sabbath Observance. REST in verse 10 is in reference to the REST to which we experience through Christ.
No. The Greek word that is translated rest in verse 9 means Sabbath observance. And the rest mention in verse 10 goes back to
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest (the Gospel), any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
(Heb 4:1-2 KJV)
“Not being mixed with faith”, exactly. The Jews continued to “go about to establish their own righteousness. You insist on the same and are telling other believers that they must also put themselves under the Law.

As was shared in the post you responded two. Two rests are being mentioned in the text in question. Sabbath obserbvance. A ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS. And the Gospel rest two which we enter into through Christ.
The only true “rest” is in Jesus Christ our Saviour. The only way to “enter in” is to indeed forsake all our own labours (attempts to earn our own salvation) and turn to Christ in faith, fully trusting His finished work. We enter in by faith and we receive God’s grace. Salvation is by grace, through faith and not of works, lest any man should boast.

No. The text says as GOD did from HIS. "as" is a direct comparrison. GOD is not resting in Christ. GOD rested on the Seventh day from all HIS works. GOD is Spirit HE did not enter into a Spiritual rest in Christ.
Amen!
I have no idea what point you are trying to make. God is God, He gave the Law. Obviously He Himself was never under it. He is eternal, perfect, Holy, sinless and righteous. This is why He is our Saviour and true rest can only be found in Him, not in any earthly ordinances or the esteeming of one day above another. Christ is our Sabbath.

"As" in verse 10 is a direct comparison. There is only one recorded ceasing from work to which GOD had attributed HIMSELF to and that Was done on the Seventh Day to which is the Sabbath.
GOD has put HIS Law; Christ in our hearts; minds and mouths. It is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not I but Christ. For we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ; the law; the word liveth in us, and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of Christ.
Exactly. By faith and not by works.

Amen! A new ministration. Not written with ink or on tables of stone. But on the fleshly tables of the heart.
Not that our sufficiency is in and of our selves. But our sufficiency is of GOD. For it is HE that works in us both tho will and do HIS good pleasure.
Yes. Not by works. So why do you insist on burdening yourself and others with legalistic ordinances that would put believers back under the Law?
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#80
Faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works. Why do you think that Paul made a "distinction" between saved through FAITH and NOT WORKS in Ephesians 2:8,9 if faith is just another work like all other works?

To have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" and are produced "out of" faith which usually ends up being defined "as" faith by those who teach salvation by faith "plus works."

By choosing to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption to save us). Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. Faith is faith and works are works.

This is so religious...and makes no sense whatsoever...besides this scheme where you just give a religious nod...and Jesus dies for you because well ....He just loves our approval. Does Jesus appreciate the nod? I don't think so. It makes a mockery of what Jesus accomplished.

People have misunderstood God and the gospel to mean...well nothing really. Just accept and it's yours. Like a push pull or drag it sale that looks more like a used car commercial than eternal truth.
As in...all you have to do is come on down...and if you act quickly you get bonus eternity points.

And God rejected the Jews...the original people...for this!???

There is a big surprise awaiting those who profane the words of the Lord.