The Gospel Demands Radical Sacrifice - David Platt

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Oct 31, 2015
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#81
I watched only the first 10 min or so of the vid. I detect a misunderstanding of the scriptures and Jesus messages. There are two key things going on here. First, Jesus is being literal when he says things like leave your father and mother and follow me. Same as in Matt when he says pluck your eye our or go to hell. Jesus taught in absolutes to people who lived before the price for sin was paid at the cross.
Living under OT law required a yes or no answer to God. The answers is yes, I am guilty and in need of a savior.
Second. Today we live in the NC.
We are forgiven of our sins. Yes we should put God above all else as is Jesus’ ideal. We however also now live under a new command to love one another.

Those who obey His commandments are those who love.

Those who come to be in Christ by believing must remain in Christ or be cast into the fire and burned.


It's really comes down to believing.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


If a person believes for a while, then no longer believes, is no longer a believer.


It's one thing to be in Christ, it's another to remain in Christ.


We must obey His word, His teaching, His doctrine as Lord if we are to remain in Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


His commandments are about loving God by loving His people.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5



If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?


20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20



2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2



  • For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JPT
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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#82
Here is the scheme that is falsely promoted by many here...

If the Jews had just not listened to God and DONE NOTHING (that was the test)...if they had not even tried to obey God...did nothing...sit on their hands and just believe in a God who says things for nothing...THEN they would be saved.

Nothing. That is the value of this false gospel. Nothing.

It's all about nothing.

But the truth is that the gospel reveals the power to know God and walk as Jesus walked. The gospel is the power over sin. The gospel is about salvation from sin by following Jesus into His perfect and miraculous life.

Is that better than the previous futile works of the law? YES!

But to accuse those who strive to walk by the faith of Jesus... of a works related gospel...is to miss the whole point of getting spiritually lazy people to do SOMETHING towards a walk of faith in God. A walk IN Christ that does the works from heaven...as Jesus did.

But most prefer nothing. Don't do anything...just have a religious opinion and condemn others who get off the couch.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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#83
I won't ask you the same question you asked me because it is blatantly obvious you know NOTHING about the 'SABBATH of the LORD'. You are NOT looking at what GOD says but what comes from human understanding....which we are NOT to rely on.
Isn't the sabbath of the Lord about entering His rest? Not OUR rest.

Heb. 3:11
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

In Christ when we let go of our lives and opinions and efforts to be filled with His Spirit...is that not His rest? Is Jesus not the Lord of the sabbath?
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
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#84
Those who obey His commandments are those who love.

Those who come to be in Christ by believing must remain in Christ or be cast into the fire and burned.


It's really comes down to believing.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


If a person believes for a while, then no longer believes, is no longer a believer.


It's one thing to be in Christ, it's another to remain in Christ.


We must obey His word, His teaching, His doctrine as Lord if we are to remain in Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


His commandments are about loving God by loving His people.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5



If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?


20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20



2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2



  • For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JPT
Not much grace there. A confused way of reading the Bible
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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#85
Why were the original people of God rejected? Because they tried too hard? Or was it because they could never get with what God was doing?

We have the exact same situation going on today. But instead of trying hard to please God...people think that have to do nothing to please God. So the same error is being committed....but just in reverse.

But God is still being missed.

How many actually walk with God in the light? How many live in His life. If you just mention the victory over sin that is found in the life IN Christ people get upset...as if...the gospel was a strange thing to them. (which it is to them)

But all is not lost if one looks deeper into the issue. Will people do that? I don't think that a person who has believed a lie (based on doing nothing) will easily exchange that for the truth that actually makes you "do something"...like seek God.

The devil knows his work.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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#86
Not much grace there. A confused way of reading the Bible

If born again Christians live their life not keeping His Commandments, will they inherit eternal life?



If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?


20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20



2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2



  • For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,807
473
83
#87
How many actually walk with God in the light? How many live in His life. If you just mention the victory over sin that is found in the life IN Christ people get upset...as if...the gospel was a strange thing to them. (which it is to them)

Yes sir!





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,807
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#88
I don't think that a person who has believed a lie (based on doing nothing) will easily exchange that for the truth that actually makes you "do something"...like seek God.

LIke be filled with His Spirit and live by the power and grace of the Spirit of Truth.


To walk in the Truth.

To obey the Truth.

To speak the Truth.



God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8





JPT
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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#89
Not much grace there. A confused way of reading the Bible

There is grace ONLY as we abide in Christ. Only He has eternal life. We only come into eternal life (which is His) by entering into Christ so as to walk as He walked. There is no free forgiveness card that makes us not responsible for our own actions. That isn't grace...that is a license to sin.

Grace is the power to do God's will. It comes from the resurrection power of Jesus Christ. Jesus lived the perfect human life. We become partakers of THAT life when we enter into Christ. Those who continue to be ruled by sin have NOT yet entered into Christ. In Christ there is NO sin. Jesus Christ is our victory over sin. He is our perfection. We don't need to try very hard to not sin...the victory is IN HIM.

We enter into Him by faith. That faith brings us under grace...meaning we are entered into Christ and now walk according to the power of the Spirit.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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#90
LIke be filled with His Spirit and live by the power and grace of the Spirit of Truth.


To walk in the Truth.

To obey the Truth.

To speak the Truth.



God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8





JPT

I have not found such faith...even on this chat site.! :)

Peace and blessings to you.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#91
LIke be filled with His Spirit and live by the power and grace of the Spirit of Truth.


To walk in the Truth.

To obey the Truth.

To speak the Truth.



God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8





JPT

Excellent post. <><
 
#92
This is so religious...and makes no sense whatsoever...besides this scheme where you just give a religious nod...and Jesus dies for you because well ....He just loves our approval. Does Jesus appreciate the nod? I don't think so. It makes a mockery of what Jesus accomplished.

People have misunderstood God and the gospel to mean...well nothing really. Just accept and it's yours. Like a push pull or drag it sale that looks more like a used car commercial than eternal truth.
As in...all you have to do is come on down...and if you act quickly you get bonus eternity points.

And God rejected the Jews...the original people...for this!???

There is a big surprise awaiting those who profane the words of the Lord.
How would you answer someone who honestly asks you “what must I do to be saved?”
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
693
190
43
#93
There is grace ONLY as we abide in Christ. Only He has eternal life. We only come into eternal life (which is His) by entering into Christ so as to walk as He walked. There is no free forgiveness card that makes us not responsible for our own actions. That isn't grace...that is a license to sin.

Grace is the power to do God's will. It comes from the resurrection power of Jesus Christ. Jesus lived the perfect human life. We become partakers of THAT life when we enter into Christ. Those who continue to be ruled by sin have NOT yet entered into Christ. In Christ there is NO sin. Jesus Christ is our victory over sin. He is our perfection. We don't need to try very hard to not sin...the victory is IN HIM.

We enter into Him by faith. That faith brings us under grace...meaning we are entered into Christ and now walk according to the power of the Spirit.
This may be a news flash but each of us sins every single day probably every single minute. Try or not it happens because we are human. Without the grace and mercy we have in Jesus Christ we are all dead in our sins.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
693
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#94
The main problem I have with this style of preaching is that he is skewing scripture to fit his argument. It is true that we should put Christ first and above all else in our lives. However, implying that somehow he knows we are not doing that or even that he knows what that looks like is error. God only knews our hearts. Having to prove to him or his church that somehow Christ is first is a form of legalism.
Besides that, there is no mention of the setting and who Jesus is talking to. He is talking to Jews and Jesus knows only a very small percentage of people will follow him. Those that do will pay heavy with their lives.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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#95
How would you answer someone who honestly asks you “what must I do to be saved?”
What did Jesus answer when asked that very thing? Does it matter what Jesus thinks?

If I say what Jesus said...you will hate my answer.

So I ill say this....believe INTO Jesus and you will partake of His eternal life.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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#96
This may be a news flash but each of us sins every single day probably every single minute. Try or not it happens because we are human. Without the grace and mercy we have in Jesus Christ we are all dead in our sins.

Is Christ powerless to cleanse us from our sins? And when we are cleansed, how clean are we? And when we are fully cleaned has God no power (grace) to keep us clean afterwards? Or is God powerless in your view? Why did Jesus come here to die and be resurrected? For what? For more status quo powerlessness?
 
#97
What did Jesus answer when asked that very thing?
John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 6:
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Does it matter what Jesus thinks?
See above. The word of God is clear regarding “what Jesus thinks.”

If I say what Jesus said...you will hate my answer.
Nonsense. See above.

So I ill say this....believe INTO Jesus and you will partake of His eternal life.
You really should hold to what Scripture says rather than making up your own doctrine simply because you assume falsely that I will “hate” what Jesus actually said on the matter.

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house

It’s truly unfortunate that if someone asked you “what must I do to be saved?”, that you would give them a different answer than the word of God plainly gives. And that apparently because you’re afraid someone would “hate” Jesus’ answer!
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#98
John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 6:
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.



See above. The word of God is clear regarding “what Jesus thinks.”



Nonsense. See above.



You really should hold to what Scripture says rather than making up your own doctrine simply because you assume falsely that I will “hate” what Jesus actually said on the matter.

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house

It’s truly unfortunate that if someone asked you “what must I do to be saved?”, that you would give them a different answer than the word of God plainly gives. And that apparently because you’re afraid someone would “hate” Jesus’ answer!
I am going to try explaining something for what is probably a futile attempt at unpackaging the gospel here.


What is disappointing is a lack of understanding of what it means to walk according to the Spirit and know life. You have taken one verse towards a specific person and made that a rule for everyone. When many see the word "saved" they automatically begin to salivate (like Pavlov's dog) and assume it means what they think it means.

Paul also says...

"But Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men remain with the ship, you cannot be saved.” Acts 27:31

Now I have done as you have a picked a verse that is about salvation. Is this about eternal salvation?

Or this...

Luke 17:19 And he told him, "Get up and go on your way. Your faith has saved you."

He was healed.

The Greek word sodzo....means many things...MOSTLY NOT about an eternal kind of salvation.

But that doesn't stop people from twisting the meaning when they desire to.

The Philippian jailer was worried for his life and the lives of his family because of the prison break.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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#99
Why don't the ones who have a hard time with what I'm presenting take apart post #89...using the bible? What is your understanding of what salvation entails? Can it even be presented at all?
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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Eternal life is found in One person...Jesus Christ. You don't enter into eternal life by just believing about eternal life. You aren't "saved" in an eternal way by just believing about Jesus Christ.

It is like when some claim that unless you believe in the rapture...then you can't be raptured.

If I stop believing in sunburns...does that make me immune from sunburn? If I trust in Jesus rather than say Godzilla or Thor for an eternal cushy place...does that force God to take me in?

It is foolish constructs that have NO basis in truth or reality that have swamped the church and rendered real testimony practically useless. Too many do this.