The gospel of …..

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded him without departing from it. Jesus defeated the temptations of Satan by quoting three times from Deuteronomy, so he affirmed its authority.
he’s the authority it witnesses of his authority your looking at some rocks with letters on them given to unrepentant sinners to condemn them and make tbier sin known …….when you could step into the presence of the lord and know him by the gospel

You need to hear what Jesus said in the gospel friend meankng acrualky listen to what it is he’s saying

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.

He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all authority and judgement was given to Christ the messiah when he came and was born in the flesh according to the law and prophets witness

They are prophetic and witness that Christ is the authority

This is Moses writing about Jesus who would come later speaking Gods words that are required of mankind Moses is not claiming his words but he’s telling them God would later raise up a prophet from among them and they would have to hear him this other prophet that would come later that would speak his words in his name

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats Moses foretelling that Jesus would be raised up later and speak Gods words of requirement for the people.

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40, 43, 45-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

moses said many prophetic things just like the example there there’s a witness of Christ who would later come in Moses words

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

heres Peter afterwards for confirmation of all this

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Im only taking the time to discuss with you because I hope you’ll take this off so you can hear the gospel

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The way you trust in Moses words you need to trust in the words of Christ in the gospel that’s where salvation is . And that’s actually what Moses foretold showing his law was temporary until Christ would come later and speak his everlasting words that offer life and salvation

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up

unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


What you’ll find though at some point is opposite doctrine from Moses and Jesus because it’s a different mediation it’s not Jesus the son of God born in Bethlehem preaching his promised kingdom it’s God ordaining a covenant with israel and giving angels charge over them to fulfill the promise he made regarding the land of promise and promising that later he would speak his words himself

There are two covenants one is Moses words and animals blood levite priests the specific bloodline of Abram the Hebrew pertaining to a certain plot of land promised to them in genesis 12-15. Moses words govern and define it in every way and no other word can be added to or taken from it it consists of everything he ever said by command to the children of Israel and the leviticle priesthood it is binding with every word and does not pardon anyone’s sin by its ordination of an unforgiving angel God places over the rebellious people

the other covenant os the fulfillment of all the promises of the messiah and Gods everlasting kingdom to come in tbe Old Testament things they kept saying God would someday bring to pass like this

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or this

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a you keep trying to live according to the broken covenant he’s saying the new one is not according to the new covenant is complete it doesn’t need the law a deed to it it’s way better able to save sinners and change thier issues in the heart able to teach them righteousness and truth , fill them with Gods spirit ect

One covenant is not part of the other the old witnesses that the new would later come and take precedence and superiority

You have to let the broken covenant go it’s a curse and the reason this is going to happen

The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 17, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we need this now

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
yeah look how it was dealt with under the law of Moses

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: and they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:18, 20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Sure glad God the father isn’t like that
Jesus Yeshua teaches a law must contain mercy. Now you know which do and do not if you study the law according to the teaching and fulfillment by our Savior.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
Jesus Yeshua teaches a law must contain mercy. Now you know which do and do not if you study the law according to the teaching and fulfillment by our Savior.
Jesus said he would make a new covenant not according to the one he made at Sinai which they broke ….

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This covenant isn’t for any of us

“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when moses was going to die

“And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after Moses died it remained because it was written in full couldn’t be changed or altered later it literwlly is the covenant the words hat define the covenant are Moses words written in his book . It’s like a Will and testament no one can alter Moses words and claim to be keeping them once he died his words are immutable and define that covenant forever

“And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a different covenant we just need Jesus and what he taught then we don’t need a law for rebellious sinners that some seem to really be having a hard time seeing they don’t belong to it in any measire by any means it’s for a totally contrary people from born again Christian’s

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

awe can’t be those folks that the law is for anymore lol we don’t have to be we have a new and better word from God that saved us and has power in it
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
Proverbs teaches that in a multitude of words, sin is not far away. I shall not add to this.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
856
102
43
You misunderstood. I believe that individuals can outwardly keep commandments. But they cannot do so inwardly apart from Christ.
The law requires not only correct outward observance, but correct motivation in the heart as well.
I suspect that most of us most of the time are merely drawing nigh with our lips to God, but our hearts are far from Him. And I also suspect that people know far less of what it is to walk in the Spirit than they suppose. We have a form of godliness but lack any real power.
In Matthew 5 we are told to let our lights so shine among men that when they observe us, they glorify God. When is the last time you remember this happening in your life?
I'm not trying to single you out. We all could use a little more and better scrutiny of our own lives. But I've been meditating alot on Isaiah 58 recently. It's worth a look-see.
In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His children to love Him and obey His commandments, so the point of the Mosaic Law is to teach us how to love, which means if someone is going through the outward motions apart from love, then they are not actually obeying it. If the Mosaic Law was only commanding our outward behavior, the God would have not disdained it when His people honored Him with their lips while their hearts were far from Him. Jesus is the exact image of God’s character (Hebrews 1:3), so he the embodiment of the inward aspect of the Mosaic Law expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in inward and outward obedience to the Mosaic Law. The fruits of the Spirit are the aspects of God’s character that Jesus expressed through living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27). The way to let our light shine is by good good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law that testify about God’s goodness and other aspects of His character, which is why our good works bring glory to Him. What are your thoughts on Isaiah 58?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,319
6,645
113
62
In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His children to love Him and obey His commandments, so the point of the Mosaic Law is to teach us how to love, which means if someone is going through the outward motions apart from love, then they are not actually obeying it. If the Mosaic Law was only commanding our outward behavior, the God would have not disdained it when His people honored Him with their lips while their hearts were far from Him. Jesus is the exact image of God’s character (Hebrews 1:3), so he the embodiment of the inward aspect of the Mosaic Law expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in inward and outward obedience to the Mosaic Law. The fruits of the Spirit are the aspects of God’s character that Jesus expressed through living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27). The way to let our light shine is by good good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law that testify about God’s goodness and other aspects of His character, which is why our good works bring glory to Him. What are your thoughts on Isaiah 58?
Your initial assertion is wrong. The law was given to reveal sin. Recognizing sin in us and the impossibility of meeting God's standards, we were to look for another way. That way is Christ. In this way, the law was to serve as a schoolmaster and lead us to Christ.
Very unfortunately, most in the time of Jesus thought as you and rejected Christ. And while with your lips you draw near to Him, by continually going back to the law, it reveals that you too reject Him in favor of the law and your own righteousness.
Paul said that he cared to know nothing other than Christ, and Him crucified; not the law, and it resurrected.
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
677
426
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Notice the cloud appeared around them all and remember how Moses entered the cloud
How did Moses enter the cloud? I browsed through Matthew, Mark, and Luke's account of the experience, and it's like all of them entered the cloud. The disciples were fearful for good reason because they were stepping into the presence of Almighty God the Father, when the voice said, "this is my Beloved Son. Hear Him!" (Luke 9:35). Then,

Luke 9:36

New King James Version

36 When the voice had ceased, Jesus was found alone. But they kept quiet, and told no one in those days any of the things they had seen.

Moses (the law) and Elijah (the prophets) vanish, and Jesus is back to being Himself as a human. I like Luke's account (Luke 9). It provides more detail than the other two accounts. I wonder why John didn't include the transfiguration in his gospel?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
How did Moses enter the cloud? I browsed through Matthew, Mark, and Luke's account of the experience, and it's like all of them entered the cloud. The disciples were fearful for good reason because they were stepping into the presence of Almighty God the Father, when the voice said, "this is my Beloved Son. Hear Him!" (Luke 9:35). Then,

Luke 9:36

New King James Version

36 When the voice had ceased, Jesus was found alone. But they kept quiet, and told no one in those days any of the things they had seen.

Moses (the law) and Elijah (the prophets) vanish, and Jesus is back to being Himself as a human. I like Luke's account (Luke 9). It provides more detail than the other two accounts. I wonder why John didn't include the transfiguration in his gospel?
aim. It sure just that johns gospel sort of shows the inner part of Jesus glorified definately speaks of his divinity and eternal nature and existence Peter mentions it again in his epistles also

I look at it as what was within the cloud in the ot being revealed in the open .

“And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount. And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud. And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel. And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s when Moses receives the genesis account from the lord and the mediation of the law for Israel’s children

moses and Elijah appear in glory talking about Jesus death …the law ( Moses ) and prophets ( Elijah) witness of the gospel and foretell it which is what Jesus fulfilled all the things in the law and prophets that were about him

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,( the ot law and prophets were the only scriptures when he said this ) and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s what Paul was saying also

“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”( all nations )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses also is a prophetic pattern of Jesus who would later come as lawgiver

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; ( Moses is a pattern for the prophet who would come later ) him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. ….Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”( repentance and remission of sins )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

moses was born at time when Hebrews male children were slaughtered in infancy as a pattern for Jesus when king Herod ordered the slaughter of the Jewish sons under two years old

both Moses and Jesus were saved as children bieng led into Egypt . Moses led into an Egyptian family Jesus family fled into Egypt and remained u til it was safe and they were called out

Moses spent fourty days and nights fasting like Jesus did .

moses was made mediator between God and the children of Israel a pattern for Jesus the one mediator between God and mankind

Moses had said God would raise up a prophet like him from among the people and that prophet would speak Gods judgments of requirement ms and whoever wouldn’t hearken to his voice would perish

He was talking about Jesus who came preaching the gospel of life. The old teetement lays out a pattern so we can underrrsnd the new when the reality comes the pattern has fulfilled its purpose
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
677
426
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
aim. It sure just that johns gospel sort of shows the inner part of Jesus glorified definately speaks of his divinity and eternal nature and existence Peter mentions it again in his epistles also

I look at it as what was within the cloud in the ot being revealed in the open .

“And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount. And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud. And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel. And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s when Moses receives the genesis account from the lord and the mediation of the law for Israel’s children

moses and Elijah appear in glory talking about Jesus death …the law ( Moses ) and prophets ( Elijah) witness of the gospel and foretell it which is what Jesus fulfilled all the things in the law and prophets that were about him

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,( the ot law and prophets were the only scriptures when he said this ) and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s what Paul was saying also

“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”( all nations )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses also is a prophetic pattern of Jesus who would later come as lawgiver

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; ( Moses is a pattern for the prophet who would come later ) him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. ….Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”( repentance and remission of sins )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

moses was born at time when Hebrews male children were slaughtered in infancy as a pattern for Jesus when king Herod ordered the slaughter of the Jewish sons under two years old

both Moses and Jesus were saved as children bieng led into Egypt . Moses led into an Egyptian family Jesus family fled into Egypt and remained u til it was safe and they were called out

Moses spent fourty days and nights fasting like Jesus did .

moses was made mediator between God and the children of Israel a pattern for Jesus the one mediator between God and mankind

Moses had said God would raise up a prophet like him from among the people and that prophet would speak Gods judgments of requirement ms and whoever wouldn’t hearken to his voice would perish

He was talking about Jesus who came preaching the gospel of life. The old teetement lays out a pattern so we can underrrsnd the new when the reality comes the pattern has fulfilled its purpose
These are wonderful thoughts my friend, and I think you have summed it up quite well in relationship to this important topic in your forum. Why try to live under an obsolete covenant (the law and the prophets) when they were only "patterns" pointing towards a New Covenant in Jesus Christ our Lord? Moses is definitely a type of Jesus Christ.

That doesn't mean we can't benefit from studying the Old Testament. On the contrary, viewed from Jesus' perspective, it only enhances our lives as New Testament children of God. Both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible are food for our physical and spiritual lives, and I'm learning more about the "simplicity in Christ" that Paul himself committed his life to achieving. Everything needs to be viewed from the perspective of our relationship with Jesus Christ; it's that simple (yet that difficult as well...).

Take the 10 commandments as an example. What a monumental gift God gave to His people (although many in that first generation of Israelites didn't see it that way). Jesus takes that gift and enhances and simplifies it even further by summing up the commandments as love towards God and love towards our fellow man. And, the gift of the Holy Spirit which came on Pentecost ties in with the original "Feast of Weeks" it came from which not only celebrated the spring harvest in Israel. Pentecost (Feast of Weeks/Firstfruits in the OT) is a celebration and commemorates the day God gave Moses the law. The Holy Spirit empowers us to live the law of Christ to love God and humanity with an agape love, selfless and focused on glorifying God and serving others.

I love your reference back to Peter's elaboration of his "mountain top" experience with Christ:

2 Peter 1:16-21

New King James Version

The Trustworthy Prophetic Word
16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 [a]And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private [b]interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but [c]holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

I'd like to spend a little more time with the Transfiguration tying Peter's thoughts back to Lukes' account in another posting later.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
These are wonderful thoughts my friend, and I think you have summed it up quite well in relationship to this important topic in your forum. Why try to live under an obsolete covenant (the law and the prophets) when they were only "patterns" pointing towards a New Covenant in Jesus Christ our Lord? Moses is definitely a type of Jesus Christ.

That doesn't mean we can't benefit from studying the Old Testament. On the contrary, viewed from Jesus' perspective, it only enhances our lives as New Testament children of God. Both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible are food for our physical and spiritual lives, and I'm learning more about the "simplicity in Christ" that Paul himself committed his life to achieving. Everything needs to be viewed from the perspective of our relationship with Jesus Christ; it's that simple (yet that difficult as well...).

Take the 10 commandments as an example. What a monumental gift God gave to His people (although many in that first generation of Israelites didn't see it that way). Jesus takes that gift and enhances and simplifies it even further by summing up the commandments as love towards God and love towards our fellow man. And, the gift of the Holy Spirit which came on Pentecost ties in with the original "Feast of Weeks" it came from which not only celebrated the spring harvest in Israel. Pentecost (Feast of Weeks/Firstfruits in the OT) is a celebration and commemorates the day God gave Moses the law. The Holy Spirit empowers us to live the law of Christ to love God and humanity with an agape love, selfless and focused on glorifying God and serving others.

I love your reference back to Peter's elaboration of his "mountain top" experience with Christ:

2 Peter 1:16-21

New King James Version

The Trustworthy Prophetic Word
16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 [a]And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private [b]interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but [c]holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

I'd like to spend a little more time with the Transfiguration tying Peter's thoughts back to Lukes' account in another posting later.
Amen yes I love what oeter was saying there too it’s strangely eloquent and beautiful and shows the foundational point that Jesus really is the son of God who was promised long before

i like how Peter is making his argument “we aren’t following cleverly devised fables !! But we were eye witnesses to his majesty on the Mount !!

It hearkens back the the importance of the apostles witness to the rest of the world and how Christs is expansive and inclusive of his dovupkes as they convert to carry in his message and gether folks into his kingdom

I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:14, 20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
These are wonderful thoughts my friend, and I think you have summed it up quite well in relationship to this important topic in your forum. Why try to live under an obsolete covenant (the law and the prophets) when they were only "patterns" pointing towards a New Covenant in Jesus Christ our Lord? Moses is definitely a type of Jesus Christ.

That doesn't mean we can't benefit from studying the Old Testament. On the contrary, viewed from Jesus' perspective, it only enhances our lives as New Testament children of God. Both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible are food for our physical and spiritual lives, and I'm learning more about the "simplicity in Christ" that Paul himself committed his life to achieving. Everything needs to be viewed from the perspective of our relationship with Jesus Christ; it's that simple (yet that difficult as well...).

Take the 10 commandments as an example. What a monumental gift God gave to His people (although many in that first generation of Israelites didn't see it that way). Jesus takes that gift and enhances and simplifies it even further by summing up the commandments as love towards God and love towards our fellow man. And, the gift of the Holy Spirit which came on Pentecost ties in with the original "Feast of Weeks" it came from which not only celebrated the spring harvest in Israel. Pentecost (Feast of Weeks/Firstfruits in the OT) is a celebration and commemorates the day God gave Moses the law. The Holy Spirit empowers us to live the law of Christ to love God and humanity with an agape love, selfless and focused on glorifying God and serving others.

I love your reference back to Peter's elaboration of his "mountain top" experience with Christ:

2 Peter 1:16-21

New King James Version

The Trustworthy Prophetic Word
16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 [a]And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private [b]interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but [c]holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

I'd like to spend a little more time with the Transfiguration tying Peter's thoughts back to Lukes' account in another posting later.
“That doesn't mean we can't benefit from studying the Old Testament. On the contrary, viewed from Jesus' perspective, it only enhances our lives as New Testament children of God. “

yes brother once we understand this part both the law and prophets become exponentially more valuable to Christian’s

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭

“But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. ( the law and prophets prophesied until John )

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.( the covenant made with Abraham always included gentiles )

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:18-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s the one Moses foretold would speak Gods words of requirement . The ot was foretelling the new

“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:22-23‬ ‭

Paul was one of these witnesses

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. ( the prophetic points within the law and prophets had to be fulfilled )

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬


once we hear the witness of the law and prophets about Christ they become so edifying and we realize it is t our law but the law and prophets are powerful witnesses that testify of Christ and his kingdom

“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all scriptire is useful and edifying I love studying the law and prophets because they always reveal things about Christ and the gospel

This is actually a prophetic point about the blood of Christ which would later be shed by him for the atonement

“For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭17:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We know that because of the new testaments revelation

“But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In Christs blood is the atonement for sin the law is prophetic for us in Christ it speaks of what we now have in him
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
677
426
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
yes brother once we understand this part both the law and prophets become exponentially more valuable to Christian’s

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭
I was thinking about what a revolutionary revelation God gave to His people with the law and prophets taking civilization multiple levels above where they were at prior to God's intervention. It really transformed our world as we know it.

And, then, Jesus comes on the scene and brings us to the third heavens with His teachings and ultimately His sacrifice. After that, He is resurrected from the dead and ascends into heaven as our glorified Savior and High Priest.

Belief is a matter of faith, which comes from God. It is good to have concrete evidence from credible sources like Peter to back up our beliefs, too. This world is without excuse:

2 Peter 1:16-21

16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure I read this many times from Luke's account, but I never really grasped the added insight Luke gives us into the interaction between Jesus with Moses and Elijah on the mountain:

Luke 9:30-31

New King James Version

30 And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of His [a]decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.

As important as the law and prophets are within God's plan for humanity, Moses and Elijah appeared to speak and probably comfort Jesus as well about His ultimate passion and upcoming suffering and death "He was about to accomplish in Jerusalem!"
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
I was thinking about what a revolutionary revelation God gave to His people with the law and prophets taking civilization multiple levels above where they were at prior to God's intervention. It really transformed our world as we know it.

And, then, Jesus comes on the scene and brings us to the third heavens with His teachings and ultimately His sacrifice. After that, He is resurrected from the dead and ascends into heaven as our glorified Savior and High Priest.

Belief is a matter of faith, which comes from God. It is good to have concrete evidence from credible sources like Peter to back up our beliefs, too. This world is without excuse:

2 Peter 1:16-21

16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
I'm sure I read this many times from Luke's account, but I never really grasped the added insight Luke gives us into the interaction between Jesus with Moses and Elijah on the mountain:

Luke 9:30-31

New King James Version

30 And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of His [a]decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.

As important as the law and prophets are within God's plan for humanity, Moses and Elijah appeared to speak and probably comfort Jesus as well about His ultimate passion and upcoming suffering and death "He was about to accomplish in Jerusalem!"[/QUOTE]
Indeed

“Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:11, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: ( Elijah )

and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, ( Moses ) as often as they will.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-4, 6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah : who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead,

and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭