the Gospel or the Letters ?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 14, 2011
86
0
0
#1
I found this on the web, what is youre opinion

On Dying:


Paul says:
I Corinthians 15

31: I protest, brethren, by my pride in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!


Jesus says:
John 11
26: and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.




On the commandments and eternal life:


Paul says:
Rom.7
[9] I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
[10] the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me.


Jesus says:
Matt.19
[17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.



On your father:



Paul says:
1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Phlm.1
[10] I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.



Jesus says:
Matt.23

[9] And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.



. On the destiny of the creation (heavens and earth):


Paul says:
Rom.8
[21] because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.


Jesus says:
Matt.24
[35] Heaven and earth will pass away,



On the destiny of the Law and the Prophets:


Paul says:
Rom.10
[4] For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.

Jesus says:
Matt.5
[17] Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.


On the number and identity of teachers:



Paul says:
1Cor.12
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers,
Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
1Tim.2
[7] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Tim.1
[11] For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher,


Jesus says:

Matt.23
[8] But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.



On the number to be saved:


Paul says:
Rom.11
[25] Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in,
[26] and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob.



Jesus says:
Matt.7
[13] Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
[14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.



On the number and identity of pastors (shepherds):


Paul says:
Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors (shepherds) and teachers,


Jesus says:
John.10
[16] And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.



. On the number and identity of leaders:


Paul says:
1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless leaders in Christ . . ..


Jesus says:
Matt.23
[10] Neither be called leaders, for you have one leader, the Christ.



On total depravity:


Paul says:
Rom.3
[9] What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all; for I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin,
[10] as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
[22] For there is no distinction;
[23] since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, . . ..



Jesus says:
Matt.12
[35] The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.
Luke.6
[45] The good man out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure produces evil; for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
Matt.23
[35] that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechari'ah the son of Barachi'ah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.



. On unconditional election:



Paul says:
Rom.9
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.


Jesus says:
Matt.7
[21] Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' [23] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.



On remuneration for preaching the gospel:


Paul says:
1Tim.5
[17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;
[18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.
1Cor.9
[11] If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?
[12] If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more?


Jesus says:
Matt.10
[7] And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
[8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay.




. On how one becomes a child of God:


Paul says:
Rom.8
[23] and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Gal.4
[5] to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.


Jesus says:
John.3
[3] Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is begotten from above,* he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is begotten of the flesh is flesh, and that which is begotten of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be begotten from above.*


Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me."

AMEN


please dont insult me, I am only seeking the truth and am not afraid of facing the truth
 
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
24
0
#2
What you posted just shows that you do not understand the Bible or believe that it is the inspired Word of God. Before you attack the apostles' teaching maybe you should admit first that you do not understand what it means.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#3
On Dying:

Paul Says:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus says:
John 11
26: and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.




I guess you can't just take some verses out of context and make them seem to contradict what Jesus says. They don't contradict. They expound. They help the new christian understand what this being born again is all about. Why don't you try it? Seek the Kingdom of God for it is at hand.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#4
On the commandments and eternal life:

Paul says:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Jesus says:
Matt.19
[17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.
John 11
26: and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.



Once again Paul does not contradict Jesus but teaches us what it means to follow the Lord.

Its all the gospel. All you have to do is pray to God for Wisdom and discernment in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. And Keep reading your bible.
 
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#5
I have often found that where there seems to be contradiction in scripture,
there is Great Understanding to be found also.

Blessings
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#6
I have often found that where there seems to be contradiction in scripture,
there is Great Understanding to be found also.

Blessings

Very true it becomes either a stumbling block to aid in your desire
to not believe or yes theres a pearl in it. :)
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
83
#7
Last edited:
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#8
The truth: God is the final judge, whether or not you believe in His word.

And has been said: You cannot take verses out of context in order to "prove" they contradict.
I suggest you find a bible and read the verses AND the ones surrounding them :)

God bless
 
Dec 14, 2011
86
0
0
#9
You are insulting the christian faith with your denial of the deity of Christ and rejection of the apostle Paul. What do you "seek" here other than to further your own contentions. And these contentions are against the rules of this forum, as seen below:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...t-vibrant-heated-discussions-please-read.html <- link

this is not my intention.

what is the insult ?
and which of the rules have I not respected?

Ive read youre link, and you are right about these rules, I didnt know.

thank you and do not worry I wont post here, for there is no free speech allowed in debating the subjects.

may peace be upon you
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#10
this is not my intention.

what is the insult ?
and which of the rules have I not respected?

Ive read youre link, and you are right about these rules, I didnt know.

thank you and do not worry I wont post here, for there is no free speech allowed in debating the subjects.

may peace be upon you
It has nothing to do with free speech, you are in essence wondering if something that contradicts everything we believe here is true. We may not agree on everything here, but the Bible is true and free of contradictions. Any supposed contradictions are examples of misuse of God's Word (ie. verses and/or phrases taken out of context). You can't come on here with a post that rejects God and Christianity and expect people to sit here and discuss with you, we are told by Paul to rebuke false teaching(teachers).
 
H

HEisgreaterthani

Guest
#11
It is written:

"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matthew 13:24-30 KJV

Jesus is my Shepard.



Here is my share of copy pasta:

"Paul claimed to be an apostle by divine intercession, Galatians 1:1, 12. He claims to be ordained an apostle, I Timothy 2:7, 2 Timothy 1:11. Ask yourself: By whom? All the real apostles are documented in scripture. There is no support for Paul&#8217;s claim other than his own word in the epistles that he wrote. Of the 22 times he is called an apostle, only two come from someone other than himself. That &#8216;someone&#8217; was Luke, Paul&#8217;s friend, traveling companion, and biographer, Acts 14:4, 14. The real apostles did not recognize Paul&#8217;s apostleship and referred to him as &#8216;brother&#8217;. The real apostles met these qualifications: They were twelve in number, and all were witness to Yahushua&#8217;s life, teachings, and resurrection; from the beginning to the end, Acts 1:21-22. Paul meets none of these qualifications. ZERO. Yahushua verified the number twelve, Matthew 19:28, and verified it again, Revelation 21:14. There are no scriptural references for thirteen apostles. Matthias replaced Judas, Acts 1:26. If the Pharisee Saul/Paul is truly an apostle as many wish to believe, that means one of the twelve is not an apostle. Who got demoted?"

"Nowhere does Yahushua mention, or even hint, that He would give &#8216;new&#8217; revelations to someone after His resurrection. One has to question why Yahushua would spend 3 ½ years in the flesh teaching the twelve chosen apostles that &#8216;till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle will pass from the law&#8217;, Matthew 5:18; and then, after His resurrection, give new revelations to a Pharisee (Saul/Paul) that make the Law void by His resurrection. Furthermore, ask yourself why would Yahushua bypass the apostles with this &#8216;new&#8217; revelation; choosing instead to reveal it to a Pharisee, the sect He called &#8216;vipers&#8217;, Matthew 12:34, and sons of the devil, John 8:44?"

"Then there&#8217;s the matter of Yahweh&#8217;s Law. Paul went to great lengths to make void the law. Yahushua and the apostles said otherwise. Yahushua taught obedience to Yahweh&#8217;s Law. Paul taught (in Christ&#8217;s name) that the Law passed away. As you can see, Paul spoke against the teaching of Yahushua."

http://www.justgivemethetruth.com/problem.htm



Discussion strengthens our Faith.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#12
It is written:

"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matthew 13:24-30 KJV

Jesus is my Shepard.



Here is my share of copy pasta:

"Paul claimed to be an apostle by divine intercession, Galatians 1:1, 12. He claims to be ordained an apostle, I Timothy 2:7, 2 Timothy 1:11. Ask yourself: By whom? All the real apostles are documented in scripture. There is no support for Paul’s claim other than his own word in the epistles that he wrote. Of the 22 times he is called an apostle, only two come from someone other than himself. That ‘someone’ was Luke, Paul’s friend, traveling companion, and biographer, Acts 14:4, 14. The real apostles did not recognize Paul’s apostleship and referred to him as ‘brother’. The real apostles met these qualifications: They were twelve in number, and all were witness to Yahushua’s life, teachings, and resurrection; from the beginning to the end, Acts 1:21-22. Paul meets none of these qualifications. ZERO. Yahushua verified the number twelve, Matthew 19:28, and verified it again, Revelation 21:14. There are no scriptural references for thirteen apostles. Matthias replaced Judas, Acts 1:26. If the Pharisee Saul/Paul is truly an apostle as many wish to believe, that means one of the twelve is not an apostle. Who got demoted?"

"Nowhere does Yahushua mention, or even hint, that He would give ‘new’ revelations to someone after His resurrection. One has to question why Yahushua would spend 3 ½ years in the flesh teaching the twelve chosen apostles that ‘till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle will pass from the law’, Matthew 5:18; and then, after His resurrection, give new revelations to a Pharisee (Saul/Paul) that make the Law void by His resurrection. Furthermore, ask yourself why would Yahushua bypass the apostles with this ‘new’ revelation; choosing instead to reveal it to a Pharisee, the sect He called ‘vipers’, Matthew 12:34, and sons of the devil, John 8:44?"

"Then there’s the matter of Yahweh’s Law. Paul went to great lengths to make void the law. Yahushua and the apostles said otherwise. Yahushua taught obedience to Yahweh’s Law. Paul taught (in Christ’s name) that the Law passed away. As you can see, Paul spoke against the teaching of Yahushua."

http



Discussion strengthens our Faith.
That is a load. Paul is one the strongest case for faith (a murderer of christians, who suddenly supports them to his own detriment of position and much suffering including death) and nothing he teaches rejects anything Jesus, nor any of the disciples taught. People love to take tidbits and pretend that there are contradictions between this book and that book, but there is none.
 
H

HEisgreaterthani

Guest
#13
(a murderer of christians, who suddenly supports them)
Interesting don't you think?

Genesis 40-42 Pharaoh had a dream of seven skinny ill-visioned cows that devoured without anyone knowing seven fat proper-visioned cows. The seven skinny ill-visioned cows parallel the churches plated by Paul (Crete, Thessalonica, Colossi, Phillipi, Galatia, Corinth and Rome). The seven fat proper-visioned cows parallel the churches planted by Jesus (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea) which were assimilated into (devoured by) the doctrine of the Pauline churches which taught salvation for anyone by grace through faith alone rather than salvation for the lost sheep only which was the 'way' taught by Jesus in Matthew 10:5. Jesus warned of this when He stated in John 5:43 "I come in My Father's name and ye receive me not, if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive!" Is it no coincidence that after Jesus left, that Paul begins nearly all of his books in his 'own name' stating 'I Paul'.

http://youtu.be/IXeSikN4Ci0
 
Last edited:
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#14
Interesting don't you think?

Genesis 40-42 Pharaoh had a dream of seven skinny ill-visioned cows that devoured without anyone knowing seven fat proper-visioned cows. The seven skinny ill-visioned cows parallel the churches plated by Paul (Crete, Thessalonica, Colossi, Phillipi, Galatia, Corinth and Rome). The seven fat proper-visioned cows parallel the churches planted by Jesus (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea) which were assimilated into (devoured by) the doctrine of the Pauline churches which taught salvation for anyone by grace through faith alone rather than salvation for the lost sheep only which was the 'way' taught by Jesus in Matthew 10:5. Jesus warned of this when He stated in John 5:43 "I come in My Father's name and ye receive me not, if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive!" Is it no coincidence that after Jesus left, that Paul begins nearly all of his books in his 'own name' stating 'I Paul'.

PAUL, FOUNDER OF CHRISTIANITY UNVEILED PART 1 OF 2 - YouTube
Paul planted no churches, the HOLY SPIRIT through Paul planted more than 7 churches. And besides that Paul never planted the church in Rome.
 
H

HEisgreaterthani

Guest
#15
the HOLY SPIRIT through Paul
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?...And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. Acts 9:4,7

And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. Acts 22:9

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 26:14

The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#16
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?...And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. Acts 9:4,7

And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. Acts 22:9

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 26:14

The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself.
In the Greek language (in which the entire New Testament was originally written), the word &#8220;akouo&#8221; is used in both of these accounts. Like many other words, this word has different meanings that vary depending on the context in which it is used. It can mean to both understand and to hear.
This same word is used in I Corinthians 14:2, which clearly shows the intended meaning: &#8220;For he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands [Greek: akouo] him; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries.&#8221; Although they heard a voice, they did not understand. This is what happened to Paul and those with him while traveling to Damascus. While the men with him heard Christ&#8217;s voice&#8212;they did not understand what was said. However, Paul both heard and understood! You see contradiction where there is not because satan is whispering in your ear hoping to tear the foundation of the bible from beneath you. Its like someone who says they love Jesus but don't love the church. Saying you love God, but don't love His Word is exactly what satan wants. You need to understand that you have to study God's word you cannot just do a surface read, english is not a strong a language as greek or hebrew.

Lord God, we rebuke Satan here and now, help your children to see through the lies that he tries to feed us, and help us to feed on your word though your Holy Spirit.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
H

HEisgreaterthani

Guest
#17
Lord God, we rebuke Satan here and now, help your children to see through the lies that he tries to feed us, and help us to feed on your word though your Holy Spirit.
Thank you

"...you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;" Revelation 2:2

"Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:14

Where is the foundation for the apostle Paul?

In the Greek language (in which the entire New Testament was originally written), the word “akouo” is used in both of these accounts. Like many other words, this word has different meanings that vary depending on the context in which it is used. It can mean to both understand and to hear.
Are there different meanings for "we were all fallen" and "only he fell" or "saw indeed" and "seeing not" also?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#18
Thank you

"...you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;" Revelation 2:2

"Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:14

Where is the foundation for the apostle Paul?



Are there different meanings for "we were all fallen" and "only he fell" or "saw indeed" and "seeing not" also?

Why do you think that one of the twelve foundations isn't Paul? Who are the twelve foundations in your view?
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#19
Thank you

Are there different meanings for "we were all fallen" and "only he fell" or "saw indeed" and "seeing not" also?
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?...And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. Acts 9:4,7

And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. Acts 22:9

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 26:14

No, because there doesn't need to be. Take a look at the verses closely. Acts 9:4,7 is someone talking about what happened to Paul, it focuses on Paul falling, it does not say whether the others fell or not, only that they were standing speachless by the end of it. And about seeing one says they did not see a man and the other says they say the light, no contradiction. You need to stop trying to find contradiction where there is none. How many times do you hear a story and then hear more details about the same story and your mind slots the new details into what you already knew. You are listening to the lies of the devil, who from the beginning has been trying to twist the Words of God. Look at Genesis 3:

And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.

Satan twisted what God said and Eve then added to what God said. That is what Satan does he tries to confuse us so that we will mess up God's Words, which then makes us vulnerable to other lies of Satan.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#20
Thank you

"...you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;" Revelation 2:2

"Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:14

Where is the foundation for the apostle Paul?
Which apostles is God talking about here, we can make assumptions, but there is not enough information here to say for sure.

Apostle actually means messenger/ambassador, though is was used it to talk about the 12 disciples in the bible. Why were they called apostles because they were chosen to be ambassadors by Christ. Paul was chosen as well to be an ambassador to the Gentiles. The Disciples accepted him as one of them, so why can't you?