The Great Apostasy.

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Jan 17, 2020
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#1
Paul warned about a great falling away from the faith in the end times. And many have turned their eyes and ears waiting for it. But it began early on and has grown to astronomical proportions since the 1800s and especially in our day. So what is it? First I’ll provide a sketch. One, it is a different gospel from what Jesus and the Apostles preached. It causes all of its victims to reject Christ and his atonement. And it ends in turning to Judaism and temple worship with animal sacrifices and rejecting Christ’s shed blood on the cross. All warned against in Hebrews 6. Where no repentance or forgiveness is possible. It is a damnable heresy warned about in the New Testament. And condemned as heresy by the Church in 431 at Ephesus.

But where do we see this today in Christendom? It originated with the Pharisees. And began in the centuries following sweeping through the Church as Premillennialism. Jesus preached a spiritual kingdom of faith. But Premillennialism preaches a physical kingdom of sight. Jesus stopped the temple and animal sacrifices with the sacrifice of himself. Premillennialism, and especially its new form of Dispensationalism calls for another temple and a return to literal animal sacrifices. Which according to Ezekiel’s temple plan atone for sin. Thus nullifying Christ’s shed blood for sin on the cross. If his temple is literal as they say, and not a symbol of Christ. So all holding these views unwittingly will one day abandon Jesus, and Christianity in exchange for Judaism that Hebrews 6 proclaims unforgivable.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#2
Repost:

Your Word for Today

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the House of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them who obey not the Gospel of God? And if the Righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (I Pet. 4:17-18).

After the horror of 9/11/01, when the lives of some 4,000 Americans were snuffed out due to Muslim terrorism, two Preachers of my acquaintance were interviewed over Network Television. They were asked why the Lord allowed this to happen to America.

Their answer was most interesting! Both agreed, “It is because of the homosexuals and the abortionists in this nation!”

That is basely incorrect!

While the two sins mentioned definitely are abominable, as should be overly obvious, that is not the problem in this country. According to the Word of God, the problem is the “House of God.” The Church in America has failed, and failed miserably! The Gospel is little preached from behind fashionable pulpits. The Cross of Christ, the very heartbeat of Christianity, has been relegated to the dustbin of antiquated doctrines, no longer applicable, or so it is said, for this modern age.

What I have just said is, in effect, the same as what Jesus said: “Verily I say unto you, that the Publicans and the harlots go into the Kingdom of God before you” (Mat. 21:31). Jesus certainly wasn’t condoning the sins of thievery and harlotry. What He was saying was that while the publicans and the harlots would repent, or at least some of them would, the religious leaders of Israel would not repent (Mat. 21:32).

Judgment always begins with Believers, and pertains to their Faith, whether in the Cross or otherwise; the Cross alone is spared judgment, for there Jesus was judged in our place.

If God will judge His Own, how much more will He judge the unredeemed? The Cross alone stays the Judgment of God. That must ever be understood.

The modern Church in this country is little preaching the Gospel. If it was preaching the Gospel, i.e., “the Cross,” which, as stated, alone stays the Judgment of God, then this nation would escape much punishment, and could very well have escaped the horror of 9/11/01.

Because it is so important, let us say it again:

If the Church faithfully preaches the Cross, most Judgment can be spared, for there Jesus was judged in our place. If the Cross is little preached, the nation is opened up for Judgment, and that’s exactly what is happening! The Cross of Christ alone stands between man and eternal Hell. We must never forget that (Eph. 2:13-18; Gal. 6:14). “

— Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#3
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away (II Tim. 3:1-5).

The Bible doesn’t teach that the situation is going to get better and better, but, as stated here, worse and worse. It also teaches, as we see from Verse 5, that the Church will go into total apostasy. It will have, and presently has, “a form of Godliness, but denies the power thereof.”

What does “denying the power thereof” mean?

Paul said, “For the preaching of the Cross is to them who perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the Power of God” (I Cor. 1:18).

The Church is in apostasy; it has fallen asleep. The Church faith is not in Christ and Him Crucified, but only Christ. In other words they are proclaiming Christ while forsaking the Cross (the Blood of Jesus). Which is another Jesus. It has made a covenant with the Evil One, and the price is the blindness of the right eye, spiritually speaking; now they cannot see what is right or what is wrong (I Sam. 11:1-2). No covenant can be made with Satan — not of any nature. If we make anything the object of our faith other than Christ and His Cross, we are, in effect, whether we realize it or not, making a covenant with Satan.

As stated, the Church has already apostatized. The Church Age opened with Christ standing in the midst of the candlesticks, in which the candlesticks represent the Church (Rev. 1:12-13). At the close of the Church Age, which pertains to the present time, we no longer find Christ in the midst of the Church, but rather outside, knocking on the door, trying to get in (Rev. 3:17-20). The Lord is, in fact, no longer dealing with the institutionalized Church as a whole, but rather with individuals only.

“If any man hear My Voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me” (Rev. 3:20). So, who presently is saved?

As there was a “Remnant” in Israel who were saved, meaning that most were lost, likewise, there also is a “Remnant” in the modern Church who are saved, but only a Remnant. Israel had rejected much of that which was of the Lord, but when they rejected the Cross, there was nothing left. They were cut off. The modern Church has done the same thing. It has rejected much which is of the Lord, but now it is rejecting the Cross. As with Israel, if the Cross is rejected, that means the Righteousness of God is rejected, and that means the Church is also cut off — except for the “Remnant.”

Are you in the Remnant?

The only way that anyone can be in the Remnant is by accepting Christ and what Christ did at the Cross. There is no other way!"’

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand” (Dan. 12:3, 10).
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
4,370
1,026
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#4
There are many more reasons than animal sacrifice for the temple to be built. God wants to once again Tabernacle with his people.
You are correct that Jesus has fulfilled the blood requirements but also the feast and celebrations God longs to share with his people.
A time of true peace will come in the form of a thousand year millennium in which Jesus will sit on David's throne.
Satan will be bound and the nation's will be called from all over to serve and worship the one true king.
The restoration of the earth will take place the deserts will bloom and the waters will flow once more.
We shall be blessed with worshipping our king as the Jewish remnant serves their Messiah with thanks giving and celebrations.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
953
834
93
#5
Paul warned about a great falling away from the faith in the end times. And many have turned their eyes and ears waiting for it. But it began early on and has grown to astronomical proportions since the 1800s and especially in our day. So what is it? First I’ll provide a sketch. One, it is a different gospel from what Jesus and the Apostles preached. It causes all of its victims to reject Christ and his atonement. And it ends in turning to Judaism and temple worship with animal sacrifices and rejecting Christ’s shed blood on the cross. All warned against in Hebrews 6. Where no repentance or forgiveness is possible. It is a damnable heresy warned about in the New Testament. And condemned as heresy by the Church in 431 at Ephesus.

But where do we see this today in Christendom? It originated with the Pharisees. And began in the centuries following sweeping through the Church as Premillennialism. Jesus preached a spiritual kingdom of faith. But Premillennialism preaches a physical kingdom of sight. Jesus stopped the temple and animal sacrifices with the sacrifice of himself. Premillennialism, and especially its new form of Dispensationalism calls for another temple and a return to literal animal sacrifices. Which according to Ezekiel’s temple plan atone for sin. Thus nullifying Christ’s shed blood for sin on the cross. If his temple is literal as they say, and not a symbol of Christ. So all holding these views unwittingly will one day abandon Jesus, and Christianity in exchange for Judaism that Hebrews 6 proclaims unforgivable.
I'm going to guess the verses you're referencing in chapter 6 are 4-6:

"4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6 and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame."

The language here is interesting for me. Apparently the audience tasted the heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit, and tasted the goodness of the word of God. The most interesting part to me is they have also experienced "the powers of the coming age." Given the time period of this scripture, I think this was written to people who were practicing Judaism and maybe even eye-witnessed Jesus Christ himself, in the flesh, before returning to Judaism, animal sacrifices, etc. By this singular verse alone it is not immediately evident, but a search through Hebrews reveals a broader narrative. I also think these verses are partly rhetorical because the Son of God does not get crucified all over again ever.

I do not think it means that they are forever, irrecoverably, damned without any hope of ever being restored to salvation. I think it means that there is no other way to salvation than Jesus Christ and that if they fall away back to Judaism then that old covenant will not suffice, but if they return to the faith in repentance then God will receive them again even if they commit apostasy. I think it is unforgivable while they are commuting the sin of apostasy, but if they ever return to Jesus in repentance they can be forgiven.

Again, there is a broader narrative that is revealed in the scriptures.

Let's look at verses 9-10:

"9 Even though we speak like this, beloved, we are convinced of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. 10 For God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown for His name as you have ministered to the saints and continue to do so."

Verse 9 it seems like he switches gears to a less condemning, more hopeful tone, " Even though we speak like this, beloved, we are convinced of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation." so who is he speaking to?
 

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
435
214
43
#6
There are many more reasons than animal sacrifice for the temple to be built. God wants to once again Tabernacle with his people.
You are correct that Jesus has fulfilled the blood requirements but also the feast and celebrations God longs to share with his people.
A time of true peace will come in the form of a thousand year millennium in which Jesus will sit on David's throne.
Satan will be bound and the nation's will be called from all over to serve and worship the one true king.
The restoration of the earth will take place the deserts will bloom and the waters will flow once more.
We shall be blessed with worshipping our king as the Jewish remnant serves their Messiah with thanks giving and celebrations.
Who will remain to hang around in the flesh during the kingdom?? My question/comment in [ ] brackets.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: [all unsaved are gone, no one survives in the flesh]
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. [Again, sheep get eternal life, goats the eternal punishment, no one left in the flesh]


These are the pressing questions that cannot be answered without changing the meaning of 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 and Matthew 25:31-46 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 and the parable of wheat and tares and many more passages like that in the New Testament. I realized this as of late that I was in the business of going to the OT or the book of Revelation and mangling these plain passages of the NT to make them fit what was in the OT or book of Revelation. Rather than taking the easy verses and making everything line up with them.

I am open to alternative interpretations but these verses ^are so clear its hard to fit a millennium in there, to be honest. My response in the past would of been Zechariah 14, but the problem with that is, these New Testament verses are clearly teaching that no one is left surviving in the flesh. Only two camps and today is the day of salvation no second chances after the Lord returns.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
5,621
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#7
^ Kolistus, first off, read more than just Isaiah 34:4 when reading Peter's 2Peter3:10-12 and what he is conveying here (read BOTH CHPTS of Isaiah 34 and 35).

Then note that Matt25:31-34 (and context) is NOT a "Rapture" verse. These are people STILL-LIVING at the time of His Second Coming to the earth. The "Sheep [of the nations]" will ENTER the EARTHLY MK age (in mortal bodies); they are called by our Lord "ye BLESSED" (whereas the "goats" are said by our Lord to be "ye CURSED").

After you examine these two passages, then move on to 2Thess1&2. Paul is not speaking merely of ONE POINT IN TIME, but a SPANS of time. I'll come back in a bit to talk more about these, if you wish to discuss further. But 2Th1:7 says, "ye who are troubled rest/repose with us IN THE REVELATION of the Lord Jesus from heaven..." (note also that Rev5:9 has the 24 elders saying "hast redeemed US"--so these are HUMANS; but this does NOT mean that those still on the earth DURING the trib years don't have the opp'ty to come to faith, they DO... and a great many WILL! Sadly, as we know, many will not.)
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#8
The Miracle of God’s Word

Philippians 3:17
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Never forget that it is our Faithful Lord Jesus Christ who is speaking through the Apostle Paul to the Church, that they TOGETHER BE FOLLOWERS OF HIM. We know that he is speaking of continuing in THE FAITH (Romans 12:3, Galatians 2:20), of Christ, which is maintaining faith in the cross of Christ. We know this because in the very next line he writes that he is warning of those who are enemies of the cross. Enemies of the cross do not always have the initial appearance of being so, for Jude says that they creep in among us (Jude 4) unawares.

The closer we get to the return of Christ for His Bride, The Church, deception is going to be greater than ever before. Never forget that deception is, “I don’t know that I don’t know, while I think I do.” There is a way which seems right to man, but the end of that way is death (Proverbs 14:12, 16:25). Death ALWAYS speaks of separation, and we need earnestly to remember and cling to the Truth that removed, and maintains the removal of our separation from God which is faith in what He did to reconcile us, which was the giving of His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ. Many have come in by Way of the Cross, but have gone out through the many other ways offered by Satan, the world and the lust of their flesh (2 Peter 2:21).

Seeking God in His Word and experiencing Him through faith in the sacrifice of Christ!

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Youtube: curtishutchinson316
4/30/2020

Pastor Curtis
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#9
I'm going to guess the verses you're referencing in chapter 6 are 4-6:

"4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6 and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame."

The language here is interesting for me. Apparently the audience tasted the heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit, and tasted the goodness of the word of God. The most interesting part to me is they have also experienced "the powers of the coming age." Given the time period of this scripture, I think this was written to people who were practicing Judaism and maybe even eye-witnessed Jesus Christ himself, in the flesh, before returning to Judaism, animal sacrifices, etc. By this singular verse alone it is not immediately evident, but a search through Hebrews reveals a broader narrative. I also think these verses are partly rhetorical because the Son of God does not get crucified all over again ever.

I do not think it means that they are forever, irrecoverably, damned without any hope of ever being restored to salvation. I think it means that there is no other way to salvation than Jesus Christ and that if they fall away back to Judaism then that old covenant will not suffice, but if they return to the faith in repentance then God will receive them again even if they commit apostasy. I think it is unforgivable while they are commuting the sin of apostasy, but if they ever return to Jesus in repentance they can be forgiven.

Again, there is a broader narrative that is revealed in the scriptures.

Let's look at verses 9-10:

"9 Even though we speak like this, beloved, we are convinced of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. 10 For God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown for His name as you have ministered to the saints and continue to do so."

Verse 9 it seems like he switches gears to a less condemning, more hopeful tone, " Even though we speak like this, beloved, we are convinced of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation." so who is he speaking to?
But it was written so the Jews would not return to Judaism. Many no doubt did just as many Christians have already converted thinking it's in their future. And that animals can replace Christ.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,460
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#10
So all holding these views unwittingly will one day abandon Jesus, and Christianity in exchange for Judaism that Hebrews 6 proclaims unforgivable.
More NONSENSE from one who has no clue about Bible prophecies.

The Great Apostasy includes people within Christendom who refuse to allow the Bible to speak, and attack the Bible, Bible texts, Bible doctrines, and Bible prophecies. The Great Apostasy is the elevation of man-made doctrines over the Word of God. But it also includes a high degree is of sinful behavior.

2 TIMOTHY 3: THE GREAT APOSTASY
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
 

Blade

Active member
Nov 19, 2019
450
186
43
#11
It can also mean departure? For that word "departure" is another meaning for whats written. hmm ... so reading before.. and then.. only after the departure comes. So .. the catching away.. almost fits :) Since this is not a new sub... we should already know how apostasy brakes down/means. Some just use the word "apostasy" before 1611.. departure was used.. on and on.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#12
The Great Apostasy is still fulture.



2 Thessalonians 2 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

1 Brothers and sisters, we have something to say about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We want to talk to you about that time when we will meet together with him. 2 Don’t let yourselves be easily upset or worried if you hear that the day of the Lord has already come. Someone might say that this idea came from us—in something the Spirit told us, or in something we said, or in a letter we wrote. 3 Don’t be fooled by anything they might say. That day of the Lord will not come until the turning away from God happens. And that day will not come until the Man of Evil appears, the one who belongs to hell.[a] 4 He will stand against and put himself above everything that people worship or think is worthy of worship. He will even go into God’s Temple and sit there, claiming that he is God.

5 I told you before that all these things would happen. Remember? 6 And you know what is stopping that Man of Evil now. He is being stopped now so that he will appear at the right time. 7 The secret power of evil is already working in the world now. But there is one who is stopping that secret power of evil. And he will continue to stop it until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that Man of Evil will appear. But the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath that comes from his mouth. The Lord will come in a way that everyone will see, and that will be the end of the Man of Evil.

9 When that Man of Evil comes, it will be the work of Satan. He will come with great power, and he will do all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders. 10 The Man of Evil will use every kind of evil to fool those who are lost. They are lost because they refused to love the truth and be saved. 11 So God will send them something powerful that leads them away from the truth and causes them to believe a lie. 12 They will all be condemned because they did not believe the truth and because they enjoyed doing evil.

You Are Chosen for Salvation
13 Brothers and sisters, you are people the Lord loves. And we always thank God for you. That’s what we should do, because God chose you to be some of the first people[c] to be saved. You are saved by the Spirit making you holy and by your faith in the truth. 14 God chose you to have that salvation. He chose you by using the Good News that we told you. You were chosen so that you can share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So, brothers and sisters, stand strong and continue to believe the teachings we gave you when we were there and by letter.

16-17 We pray that the Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father will comfort you and strengthen you in every good thing you do and say. God loved us and gave us through his grace a wonderful hope and comfort that has no end.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,460
6,131
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#13
The Great Apostasy is still future.
That is incorrect. The Great Apostasy began in the 19th century and has continued to gain momentum since then. Please take some time to study what has been happening within Christendom over the last 200 years.

The time is fast approaching for the revelation of the the Antichrist. The Orthodox Jews have already made detailed plans for the building of the third temple in Jerusalem. The New World Order has gained tremendously over the last decade, while theological liberalism and apostasy has entered into even the previously evangelical and fundamental churches. Pope Francis is not only a globalist but also a New Age adherent. One could go into great detail about what has happened in the various denominations, but it is up to you to do some research for yourself.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#14
More NONSENSE from one who has no clue about Bible prophecies.

The Great Apostasy includes people within Christendom who refuse to allow the Bible to speak, and attack the Bible, Bible texts, Bible doctrines, and Bible prophecies. The Great Apostasy is the elevation of man-made doctrines over the Word of God. But it also includes a high degree is of sinful behavior.

2 TIMOTHY 3: THE GREAT APOSTASY
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
Did you know that all, except 11 of 90 some fulfilled prophecies could not be understood until after God fulfilled it? And you add to God's words trying to preach their outcomes before their fulfillment.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,130
4,522
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#15
Apostasy is very simple to define in the people's language. It is when people who have the truth teach doctrine from their own minds as though it came from the mouth of our Maker.

If a person clains to believe God yet contradicts Him in speech, and in action, they are apostetic.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#16
Many have come in by Way of the Cross, but have gone out through the many other ways offered by Satan, the world and the lust of their flesh (2 Peter 2:21). They have abandoned the Cross for other things. Phil. 3:17-18

The answer for which we seek is found only in the Cross! If you don’t believe that, you are in apostasy.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#17
Premillennialism, and especially its new form of Dispensationalism calls for another temple and a return to literal animal sacrifices.
This is the 7 year tribulation period between the Holy Spirit Dispensation or the Church age and the Kingdom Age when we will rule and reign with Jesus for 1,000 years. We have good reason to believe that His return will be physical. We read that in the book of Acts and we read this in Zech 14:4 "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south." Although I could accept that the Kingdom age is symbolic or spiritual. WE can not see the Holy Spirit of God during the age we are currently in.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#18
This is the 7 year tribulation period between the Holy Spirit Dispensation or the Church age and the Kingdom Age when we will rule and reign with Jesus for 1,000 years. We have good reason to believe that His return will be physical. We read that in the book of Acts and we read this in Zech 14:4 "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south." Although I could accept that the Kingdom age is symbolic or spiritual. WE can not see the Holy Spirit of God during the age we are currently in.
That's a pretty big "Jesus" you got there. You need to listen to Jesus to find out what it means.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,130
4,522
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#19
The apostasy seems to be setting the stage for a world church or a world regulation of religions…………….
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#20
The apostasy seems to be setting the stage for a world church or a world regulation of religions…………….
It's a return to Judaism, a rejection of Christianity, temple and all.