THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith without hypocrisy:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
If you are pointing that verse at me, kind of silly because all I did wa post Scripture, but I would say yes, I dont fully understand Yahweh or His Instruction that is why I read and pray, but MORE IMPORTANTLY THAT IS WHY I SEEK TO HEAR AND OBEY TO MESSIAH, (no Im not perfect I know):

Matt 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

John 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Any ways I will make one short post before I have to go. The law is not evil as it came from God. The law is good. The problem with the law is the sin nature (or power of sin) that we are all born with. The law defines what sin is and the sin nature causes us to break that law. The only way to break the sin nature is to place your and my faith in the work of the cross ( the Blood of Jesus, the Ultimate Sacrifice).

If our faith is shifted from the work of the cross and placed in our own works or some other church fad (Daniel fast, forty days of purpose, keeping OT feast, wearing prayer shawls and so on) God will not accept it. The only thing He will accept is the cross and nothing else.

By placing faith in the cross, the power of sin is broken and gives the Holy Spirit the legal right to work in us and through us producing God fruit, which is better than law. Did jesus say that every tree that doe's not keep law shall be cut down and cast in the fire? No, He says that every tree that doe's not bear fruit. I have already explained the difference between law and fruit and fruit is higher than law. The law doe's not command to be a witness but fruit causes you to witness. The law say's that you shall not commit murder. God's morality say's that if you look at your brother with malice in your heart, then you have already committed murder. Fruit causes you to look at those who hate you and use you with love in your heart.

Fruit is better than law because fruit comes from the Holy Spirit.

Merry Christmas.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets"

"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law"

Did heaven and earth pass?

Has the Savior ALREADY fulfilled the prophecy of His 2nd coming?


Unless both of these are yes then the answer is;

"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law"
Right He fulfilled it "every jot and tittle" and it has passed away for those who are a New Creation in Him.
SO heaven and earth has passed already?

and the Messiah has already returned?


I know Im not the smartest guy.... but I think I would have noticed that...

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
 
P

passinthru

Guest
[TABLE="class: cms_table_table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]What do you make of 1 Corinthians chapter 5
? ................................///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



1Co 5:5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_td_bible_text"]






To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
402
11
18
Wow... 66 pages and there's still no common ground here?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
wearing prayer shawls and so on) God will not accept it. The only thing He will accept is the cross and nothing else.
Lol "prayer shawls" are a tradition, Jewish tradition of the "rabbis" (pharisees) and is not found not in Scripture...

Messiah spoke STRONGLY against teaching tradition as doctrine:

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."


Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2014
432
30
18

I must wonder what Laws. Traditions, and what religious ceremony Adam was required to follow before the fall..

Since this is the state God has placed those who have been adopted as his children are in.
With there being no sin at the time. I would think what came natural was to Love the Lord. Adam may have then just loved the Lord for who God is. I praise the Lord for who he is. I am awestruck of his power, and what he has done. Seems all of the laws,traditions, and ceremony's came due to the fall of man. None of which was good enough, it would seem. For Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifice.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
With there being no sin at the time.
How so?

Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

Romans 4:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."


1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
 

Trailblazer

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2014
432
30
18
For through one man. Sin entered the world. This is back in Genesis.
 
Last edited:
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Se there yuo go again.

I copied you post, and showed the works you claim one must do to be saved.

Yet you still deny it.

You can yell all you want, your only fooling yourself.

I have PROVED with your OWN WORDS that you DO WHAT YOU CLAIM NOT TO DO.




I already told you. Every man is shown grace by God. some more than others, If your in Gods house and are around his people. you experience Gos grace even more, but if while there, You decide you do not trust that grace, and walk away and go back to your religion. You have fallen from grace.

You did not lose salvation. YOU NEVER HAD IT!


It would be like you or hizekia deciding to try this faith stuff out. Walking around with the people and being blessed like you have never been blessed before (yes, I can say this, I have experienced it when I left the legalistic church) then deciding, no, You do not like it, you miss your religion, you do not feel closer to God because to you, being close to God is doing ritualistic tradition. So you go back to you law and works.

You have fallen from Grace.

but you were never saved, BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS TRUSTED IN YOUR WORKS< THAT NEVER CHANGE!




Paul never said salvation can be lost by sin, for if he did, he would contradict his own teachings of justification by faith, the eternal seal of the spirit. the fact that God will perfect the work he begun in you.

However. sin CAN and DOES CAUSE BAD THINGS IN YOUR LIFE. and the lives of others, and if it is not confronted immediately, Can lead you to a path of being the prodigal. that is how powerful sin (self) is.



He does not say you HAVE TO BE A DOER. He says, if you BELIEVE you WILL BE A DOER, and not just a DOER. Those born of him DO Obey his commands, DO walk in his statutes. He has WRITTEN his law in their hearts. they not only understand them, they do them (not perfectly however)


You can say you have faith till your blue in the faith, if your faith does not produce works, IT IS DEAD! Your not saved, and you never will be saved until you repent, and come fully to God. BELIEF is not enough, it takes FAITH!



Because those who do not do the will of the father HAVE NEVER SEEN GOD. NOR DO THEY KNOW HIM.


This is a faulty excuse to preach works. People can be saved and do many works, But still not be perfect. yet they are still saved.

SOme will remain babes and never grow, but STILL do Gods commands (although not as well.

The standard for salvation is what James said, Break ONE law, your guilty, Your guilty, your cursed. your cursed, YOU NEED SAVED.

No one will EVER be at the point they will obey good enough to be saved,


What does it mean to you when Jesus says those who love Him keep His commandments, those who don't love Him do not keep His commandments ?



I can not repent over and over, DO you want me to mock God over and over?

Godly sorrow comes from the chastening of God. and the knowledge yuo have HURT THE ONE You LOVE (GOD)



It means do not expect a blessed life on earth, if you refuse to forgive others because not forgiving places you in sin, thus you are grieving the spirit. He CAN NOT USE YOU




lol. How many times have yuo denied God? Every time you SIN you deny God, and promote self.

You do nto even know what sin is, if you did, you would not preach the way you do.




Well lets see.

I had gods truth in my hands, I could touch it.

I loved my sin more than God

I rejected his gift (said thanks but no thanks God)

then I get to heaven, and realise how close I was, and now will suffer eternally KNOWING I had it in my hands.

I will suffer FAR more than a person who knew in my heart I was a sinner, But never even listened to Gods message to even give it a try.


as for posting more questions?

Why bother, You never listen to the answer.


Remember, When paul said he (God) Who begun a good work in you (at salvation) will perfect it till the day of christ. ?

You claim you are stronger than God, and God may not be able to do it in your life. and give up and walk away from you. Even though God promised he would NEVEr leave nor forsake us, And ALL that God has given to him, HE WILL LOSE NOT ONE OF THEM.


Right there that I enlarged in what you said is a clear showing of what the bible says in Hebrews about being hard to bring a person to repent, because they believe they are mocking or crucifying the Lord again. When this is actually what is required of a believer to do for their sins they commit.

Hebrews 6:4-6


For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.


It says here that you are only doing yourself harm if you do not repent of your sins, and notice it says restore them again. This means that had to be part of His saving grace to begin with, and then lost it and can not be brought to repent again for their sins because they believe they are mocking or crucifying Him again.


Then in Luke 6 our Lord Jesus says you have to be a hearer and a doer of His word for Him to be your Lord. For He says if you are a hearer only, you have no foundation in your faith and can easily fall from the faith, which would end in no salvation.

Luke 6:46-49


And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.


And yes I do listen to what you say, but I am not going to accept an answer of a point of view that does not match scripture. I have constantly posted scripture to back my stance as others have pointed out to you, you for the most part have only posted your opinion. What I have said has matched scripture, but because you don't like that it did. You make claims of things I did not say, say misinterpret yet no scriptural rebuttal, and then also say does not apply to us when it does.

You are a fellow member in Christ and I wish for you to have a good life, and pray for you always.

God bless
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
For through one man. Sin entered the world. This is back in Genesis.
Yes.... Since the creation of the world and the universe the Laws of the Creator of that universe have always been there, He created it, it can't operate without Him. Satan tricks people into believing the "universe is chaotic", but it reality it is satan that is creating all the chaos, with the chaos teachings(#1Ab ordo Chao), when satan is gone there will be no more chaos. Please read these Scriptures brother, please.

Matt 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

Matt 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets."

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears (191) my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment (2920), but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

Psalm 2, "Why do the heathen rage, and the people plot vanity? The kings of the earth rise up, and the rulers take counsel against Yahweh and His Anointed, saying; Let us break their bands asunder; Let us cast their yoke of bondage from us. He Who sits in the heavens will laugh them to scorn; Yahweh will treat them with derision and contempt! He shall speak to them in wrath! He shall terrify them in His great displeasure, saying: I set My King on Mount Zion, My holy hill. I will proclaim the decree Yahweh declared; Yahweh said to me: You are My Son, this day I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You the nations for Your inheritance. The ends of the earth will be for Your possession. With a rod of iron You will break the nations; You will dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel! Be wise, therefore, all you rulers; be instructed, you judges of the earth. All of you serve Yahweh with reverence; you shall rejoice with trembling. Kiss the iSon, lest He be angry, and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled only a little. Blessed are they who will then put all their trust in mighty Yahweh; then they will stand as His Own Son."

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Matt 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets."

Revelation 21:3-4, "And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father. And Yahweh will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away."


1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."
 
Last edited:
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
102
0
For through one man. Sin entered the world. This is back in Genesis.

; 3but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
; 3but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"
Then satan came in and told Eve you will not die.
And satan is still telling God's people that lie, go ahead and do it for surely you will not die.
 
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
102
0
Yes.... Since the creation of the world and the universe the Laws of the Creator of that universe have always been there, He created it, it can't operate without Him. Satan tricks people into believing the "universe is chaotic", but it reality it is satan that is creating all the chaos, with the chaos teachings(#1Ab ordo Chao), when satan is gone there will be no more chaos. Please read these Scriptures brother, please.



Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."




."
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:



7 YAHWEH said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered YAHWEH and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.





satans always moving, he has no peace, he knows his end..now it's about taking as many down with him as possible. Yes, very chaotic ..
 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2014
432
30
18
Yes.... Since the creation of the world and the universe the Laws of the Creator of that universe have always been there, He created it, it can't operate without Him. Satan tricks people into believing the "universe is chaotic", but it reality it is satan that is creating all the chaos, with the chaos teachings(#1Ab ordo Chao), when satan is gone there will be no more chaos. Please read these Scriptures brother, please.

Matt 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

Matt 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets."

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears (191) my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment (2920), but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

Psalm 2, "Why do the heathen rage, and the people plot vanity? The kings of the earth rise up, and the rulers take counsel against Yahweh and His Anointed, saying; Let us break their bands asunder; Let us cast their yoke of bondage from us. He Who sits in the heavens will laugh them to scorn; Yahweh will treat them with derision and contempt! He shall speak to them in wrath! He shall terrify them in His great displeasure, saying: I set My King on Mount Zion, My holy hill. I will proclaim the decree Yahweh declared; Yahweh said to me: You are My Son, this day I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You the nations for Your inheritance. The ends of the earth will be for Your possession. With a rod of iron You will break the nations; You will dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel! Be wise, therefore, all you rulers; be instructed, you judges of the earth. All of you serve Yahweh with reverence; you shall rejoice with trembling. Kiss the iSon, lest He be angry, and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled only a little. Blessed are they who will then put all their trust in mighty Yahweh; then they will stand as His Own Son."

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Matt 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets."

Revelation 21:3-4, "And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father. And Yahweh will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away."


1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."
Very true of the chaos that Satan creates. It was also Satan who tricked Eve into eating of the forbidden fruit.
GENESIS 3 is some good reading. The Fall of Man. The serpent said to the woman. For God knows when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Wow... 66 pages and there's still no common ground here?
I think we have seen some...most admit that love fulfills the law... I think some admit this now and try to term there attempts to keep the law in love.... If love keeps all the law and it does...I guess one has to say all obedience to all scripture is based upon love...Gods love for us...our love for Him and others? I think most would agree in general with that?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Very true of the chaos that Satan creates. It was also Satan who tricked Eve into eating of the forbidden fruit.
GENESIS 3 is some good reading. The Fall of Man. The serpent said to the woman. For God knows when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.
Yes, it completely changed mans leadership over the trees, animals, etc that the Creator gave.

And because the world is currently in that state I think the world needs the words of Yahshua (Jesus)

Matt 22:36-40, "...You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might...You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:



7 YAHWEH said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered YAHWEH and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.





satans always moving, he has no peace, he knows his end..now it's about taking as many down with him as possible. Yes, very chaotic ..
How did satan deceive eve...did God say...and whats Pauls warning to us? Not the be lead away from the simplicity of Christ...as you received Him so walk ye in Him....how did we receive Him? By faith apart from the works of the law...which always makes salvation so complex ...this law ..that law...you gota do this and do that...etc Its not the gospel and it don't save anyone!
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Then satan came in and told Eve you will not die.
And satan is still telling God's people that lie, go ahead and do it for surely you will not die.
Does the tree of knowledge of good and evil sound like the law to you? It is! And the gospel is clear...don't eat from the "ministry of death"... Written and engraved in stones.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
How did satan deceive eve...did God say...and whats Pauls warning to us? Not the be lead away from the simplicity of Christ...as you received Him so walk ye in Him....how did we receive Him? By faith apart from the works of the law...which always makes salvation so complex ...this law ..that law...you gota do this and do that...etc Its not the gospel and it don't save anyone!
You do make a proper point, IMO, too much focus on the Law will take the eyes of Yahshua (Jesus).

I think we should focus on what He (Jesus) Himself said.

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"