THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Atwood]

James 2:23-24King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith,
Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness:
and he was called the Friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Justification is a concept that overlaps with salvation, but is not exactly the same thing. Justification is a declaration that a man is righteous (not merely forgiven). Now whenever a Christian does good works, the works do declare he is righteous (justification) -- by their fruits you know them.

But also we find that apart from works, whenever a man trusts Christ as Savior & thus gets saved (believe on the Lord Jesus & you shall be saved), at that point APART FROM WORKS, the new believer is declared righteous.

James shows concern for the truth that works follow salvation, not that works precede salvation or cause salvation.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

[All them who believer, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]

for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

 

[Atwood]

In its primary meaning, the Hebrew word mitzvah (/ˈmɪtsvə/;[SUP][1][/SUP] meaning "commandment", מִצְוָה, [mit͡sˈva]

Kerry, you're too funny. I see you come on at night and put one-liners on a whole line of threads on this BDF and it is funny seeing your name zoom up the BDF Index page. Way ta go -- hit 'em all!

How ya doing anyway?

מִּצְפָּה​

The screen name to me brings up, Laban who told Jacob: May the Lord watch between me & thee while we are absent one from the other.

Which methinks in context means: "Behave yourself in my absence, you scoundrel, since the Lord can see you when I can't."

וְהַמִּצְפָּה אֲשֶׁר אָמַר יִצֶף יְהוָה בֵּינִי וּבֵינֶךָ כִּי נִסָּתֵר אִישׁ מֵרֵעֵהוּ׃

f thou shalt afflict my daughters, and if thou shalt take wives besides my daughters, no man is with us; see, God is witness betwixt me and thee.
​

 

[Mitspa]

מִּצְפָּה​

The screen name to me brings up, Laban who told Jacob: May the Lord watch between me & thee while we are absent one from the other.

Which methinks in context means: "Behave yourself in my absence, you scoundrel, since the Lord can see you when I can't."

וְהַמִּצְפָּה אֲשֶׁר אָמַר יִצֶף יְהוָה בֵּינִי וּבֵינֶךָ כִּי נִסָּתֵר אִישׁ מֵרֵעֵהוּ׃

f thou shalt afflict my daughters, and if thou shalt take wives besides my daughters, no man is with us; see, God is witness betwixt me and thee.
​

actually the word means the place where God sees and judges what is right... Its used several places in is base form...Its at the core of the word for watchtower and other type words that relate to seeing and keeping guard ...Im not a JW lol

 

[Mitspa]

Paul made a man go blind..

…10and said, "You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of God? 11"Now, behold, the hand of God is upon you, and you will be blind and not see the sun for a time." And immediately a mist and a darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking those who would lead him by the hand. 12Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of Yahshua.

Yep we see that godliness and love always seeks mercy but from a heart of mercy often has to work justice.

 

[Atwood]

actually the word means the place where God sees and judges what is right... Its used several places in is base form...Its at the core of the word for watchtower and other type words that relate to seeing and keeping guard ...Im not a JW lol

I am sure that an interesting sermon or Bible study could be made of the place. I thought of quoting you the saying said at מִּצְפָּה

to you, but I was aware that really in context it isn't a blessing.

 

[Mitspa]

I am sure that an interesting sermon or Bible study could be made of the place. I thought of quoting you the saying said at מִּצְפָּה

to you, but I was aware that really in context it isn't a blessing.

Like I said the word means the place where God sees and judges what is just....That's a blessing if your heart is "just" I guess it could be bad if one is not? That's why its the place where God sees and judges

 

[newbirth]

Justification is a concept that overlaps with salvation, but is not exactly the same thing. Justification is a declaration that a man is righteous (not merely forgiven). Now whenever a Christian does good works, the works do declare he is righteous (justification) -- by their fruits you know them.

But also we find that apart from works, whenever a man trusts Christ as Savior & thus gets saved (believe on the Lord Jesus & you shall be saved), at that point APART FROM WORKS, the new believer is declared righteous.

James shows concern for the truth that works follow salvation, not that works precede salvation or cause salvation.

we are saved by grace through faith ...faith without works is dead....James concern is that some people believe faith can save without works....
James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?



which is exactly what you are saying...

at that point APART FROM WORKS, the new believer is declared righteous.

you are saying you have faith apart from works and it saves you ...James is saying that is a lie...you quote scripture but you add your own twist to support your doctrine.....God gives salvation to those who obey him...those who believe him obey...this is what those who believe do...
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 18:8
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

 

[Awoken]

Your works prove your faith. Simple.

 

[newbirth]

Your works prove your faith. Simple.

not so simple for some...

 

[Mitspa]

we are saved by grace through faith ...faith without works is dead....James concern is that some people believe faith can save without works....
James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?



which is exactly what you are saying...[/COLOR]
you are saying you have faith apart from works and it saves you ...James is saying that is a lie...you quote scripture but you add your own twist to support your doctrine.....God gives salvation to those who obey him...those who believe him obey...this is what those who believe do...
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 18:8
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

This passage has been used by some to suggest that James is somehow promoting "works" of law or some sort of moral works to justify? But James uses an interesting example? Rahab the harlot.... Now clearly this passage could not be used to support some system of self-righteousness... But works of faith and action that reflect our faith.

 

[Hizikyah]

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

 

[Mitspa]

Ro 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[Hizikyah]

Ro 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Still haven't studied those posts huh?

lol

TELOS.

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Notice it is used 42 times? Let's look at a few of those times...

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Would you miss apply that here and say that is the end of everlasting life? No more everlasting life, it is ended?

Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

The word for custom here is G5056; telos.

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

So now if we end the Commandment (notice it is singular?) then the result is love (charity) out of a pure heart? Lawlessness produces love?

Now this one is a real problem for you misapplication of the word telos...

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Oh no, the end of Christ?

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The end of faith?

The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law.

 

[Hizikyah]

Who does the dragon fight against?

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws/Commands of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

"went to make war with those who...keep the Laws/Commands of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah"

 

[Mitspa]

Still haven't studied those posts huh?

lol

TELOS.

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Notice it is used 42 times? Let's look at a few of those times...

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Would you miss apply that here and say that is the end of everlasting life? No more everlasting life, it is ended?

Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

The word for custom here is G5056; telos.

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

So now if we end the Commandment (notice it is singular?) then the result is love (charity) out of a pure heart? Lawlessness produces love?

Now this one is a real problem for you misapplication of the word telos...

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Oh no, the end of Christ?

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The end of faith?

The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law.

Hiz...I have studied the biblical Greek for years and have a good understanding of how the scholars have translated these things into English and how and what the words themselves means....NO biblical scholar would try to assert what some of you are trying to claim..as it relates to this word...if fact its so unreasonable that I cant even understand what point you guys think your making? End means end...complete ..finished...and in the context its absolutely clear that's whats being said.

Ro 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Ro 10:4 (KJV) For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ro 10:4 (ASV) For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ro 10:4 (BBE) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who has faith.
Ro 10:4 (DBY) For Christ is [the] end of law for righteousness to every one that believes.
Ro 10:4 (MKJV) For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes.
Ro 10:4 (MNT) For to every believer Christ is an end of law as a means of righteousness.
Ro 10:4 (NKJV) For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Ro 10:4 (Oracl) For Christ is the end of the law for justification to every believer.
Ro 10:4 (RSV) For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.
Ro 10:4 (TCNT) For Christ has brought Law to an end, so that righteousness may be obtained by every one who believes in him.
Ro 10:4 (WEB) For Christ is the fulfillment of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Ro 10:4 (WNT) For as a means of righteousness Christ is the termination of Law to every believer.
Ro 10:4 (YLT) For Christ is an end of law for righteousness to every one who is believing,

 

[kennethcadwell]

This passage has been used by some to suggest that James is somehow promoting "works" of law or some sort of moral works to justify? But James uses an interesting example? Rahab the harlot.... Now clearly this passage could not be used to support some system of self-righteousness... But works of faith and action that reflect our faith.

You keep wanting to go back to Rahab the harlot for your justification, but I never see you use the fact that James also uses seeing a person hungry or naked and if you refuse to help them. You have a dead worthless faith that does not lead to salvation.

James 2:15-16
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

How do we know that the person will not profit by receiving salvation, because we can go back to our Lord Jesus and see what He said about this same situation;

[h=1]Matthew 25:41-46[/h]41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Mitspa]

You keep wanting to go back to Rahab the harlot for your justification, but I never see you use the fact that James also uses seeing a person hungry or naked and if you refuse to help them. You have a dead worthless faith that does not lead to salvation.

James 2:15-16
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

How do we know that the person will not profit by receiving salvation, because we can go back to our Lord Jesus and see what He said about this same situation;

Matthew 25:41-46

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I did not use Rahab THE HARLOT...as the example of a faith that works...God did that!

 

[kennethcadwell]

I did not use Rahab THE HARLOT...as the example of a faith that works...God did that!

Yes and just like I showed in post 1376 how God through James and the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ show that if you say you have faith, but it is not shown in your actions it is a dead faith that does not lead to salvation.
Only a true faith that has actions that show an prove that faith is true and sincere in the Lord lead to salvation, one can not say they have faith and still have actions of hatred, and willful sin in their life. Your actions from a true faith in the Lord will be shown with and through love.

 

[Hizikyah]

Hiz...I have studied the biblical Greek for years and have a good understanding of how the scholars have translated these things into English and how and what the words themselves means....NO biblical scholar would try to assert what some of you are trying to claim..as it relates to this word...if fact its so unreasonable that I cant even understand what point you guys think your making? End means end...complete ..finished...and in the context its absolutely clear that's whats being said.

Ro 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

KJV 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Tradition. The bible publishers follow tradition and all these (below) admit they follow, so I cant put weight into that when I can look at the greek and these verses and see that some transltors have translated it correctly, and know the is not a proper translation. The same word can't mean different things in different places. *The Pharisees made this and all the bible publishers follow it.
and this was the last thing Yahshua (Jesus) said to the pharisees as He walked away from the temple;
Mattithyah 23:39, "For I say to you: From this moment you will not see Me, until you say: Blessed is He Who comes in the Name of Yahweh!"

Yahshua (Jesus) said to the Pharisees: Matt 15:3, "And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

New King James Version (Biblica) - Preface
"The covenant name of God was usually translated from the Hebrew word as "LORD" or "GOD", using capital letters as shown, as in the King James Old Testament. This tradition is maintained. In the present edition the name is so capitalized whenever the covenant name is quoted in the New Testament from a passage in the Old Testament."

Yahshua (Jesus) said to the Pharisees: Matt 15:3, "And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

New Revised Standard Version - Preface
"Careful readers will notice that here and there in the Old Testament the word Lord (or in certain cases God) is printed in capital letters. This represents the traditional manner in English versions of rendering the Divine Name,.."



Holman Christian Standard Bible - Preface
"The Tetragrammaton occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew Bible. Nearly all English versions follow the ancient tradition*

Yahshua (Jesus) said to the Pharisees: Matt 15:3, "And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

American Standard Version - Preface
"The change first proposed in the Appendix --- that which substitutes "Jehovah" for "LORD" and "GOD" (printed in small capitals) --- is one which will be unwelcome by many, because of the frequency and familiarity of the terms displaced. But the American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numerous versions made by modern missionaries.

The English Revised Version - Preface
"It has been thought advisable in regard to the word "JEHOVAH" to follow the usage of the Authorised Version, and not to insert it uniformly in place of "LORD" or "GOD," which when printed in small capitals represent the words substituted by Jewish custom for the ineffable Name according to the vowel points by which it is distinguished. It will be found, therefore, that in this respect the Authorised Version has been departed from only in a few passages, in which the introduction of a proper name seemed to be required."

GOD'S WORD Translation - Preface
"GOD'S WORD capitalizes the first letter in proper nouns and sentences and all the letters in the word LORD when it represents Yahweh, the name of God in the Old Testament."

Good News Translation Bible - Preface
"Following an ancient tradition, begun by the first translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (the Septuagint) and followed by the vast majority of English translations, the distinctive Hebrew name for God (usually transliterated Jehovah or Yahweh), is in this translation represented by “LORD.” When Adonai, normally translated “Lord,” is followed by Yahweh, the combination is rendered by the phrase “Sovereign LORD.”


Holman Christian Standard Bible - Preface
"The Tetragrammaton occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew Bible. Nearly all English versions follow the ancient tradition*

*The Pharisees made this and all the bible publishers follow it.
and this was the last thing Yahshua (Jesus) said to the pharisees as He walked away from the temple;
Mattithyah 23:39, "For I say to you: From this moment you will not see Me, until you say: Blessed is He Who comes in the Name of Yahweh!"

Because the Pharisees banned it

Talmud - Mas. Sotah 38a
Another [Baraitha] taught: ‘On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel’ — with the use of
the Shem Hameforash.15 You say that it means with the Tetragrammaton; but perhaps that is not so and a substituted name was used!16 There

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

KJV 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


(Mt 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:
And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?")

and all these publishers follow, so I cant put weight into that when I can look at the greek and these verses and see that some transltors have translated it correctly, and know the is not a proper translation.

Holman Christian Standard Bible - Preface
"The Tetragrammaton occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew Bible. Nearly all English versions follow the ancient tradition*of rendering the Divine name as “the Lord.” The King James Version makes only four exceptions (Exodus 6:3, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 12:2, and Isaiah 26:4), where it renders the name as “Jehovah.” The first edition of the HCSB used “Yahweh” seventy-five times, and the 2009 revision increased the number to 476, although the ordinary rendering continues to be “the Lord.” One of the editors of the version has explained why the version uses “Yahweh” in the places where it does: We use it as the rendering of YHWH (which the Hebrew Bible editors first rendered as Adonai, “Lord”) whenever God’s “name” is being given (either explicitly, using the word “name,” or implicitly), when He is being identified (“I am Yahweh”), when He is being contrasted to other gods such as Baal, in certain repeated phrases such as “Yahweh the God of your fathers,” or when YHWH has been rendered by Yahweh in the immediate context. … our objective is to introduce to the contemporary church what is the most likely pronunciation of the divine name YHWH in the Hebrew Bible. We did not render the majority of occurrences of YHWH as Yahweh because our goal is not only to be accurate but to use an English style that is most familiar to people. Since most Christians today probably do not commonly speak of “Yahweh,” but rather of “the Lord,” we felt it would be insensitive to use Yahweh for YHWH in every case and would make the Bible seem too uncomfortable for most people."

New American Bible - Preface
"A superficial difference between two of these sources is responsible for their names: the Yahwist prefers the name Yahweh (represented in translation as Lord) by which God revealed himself to Israel; the Elohist prefers the generic name for God, Elohim. The Yahwist is concrete, imaginative, using many anthropomorphisms in its theological approach, as seen, e.g., in the narrative of creation in Genesis 2, compared with the Priestly version in Genesis 1. The Elohist is more sober, moralistic. The Priestly strand, which emphasizes genealogies, is more severely theological in tone. The Deuteronomic approach is characterized by the intense hortatory style of Deuteronomy 5-11, and by certain principles from which it works, such as the centralization of worship in the Jerusalem temple."

New American Standard Bible - Preface
"THE PROPER NAME OF GOD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT: In the Scriptures, the name of God is most significant and understandably so. It is inconceivable to think of spiritual matters without a proper designation for the Supreme Deity. Thus the most common name for the Deity is God, a translation of the original Elohim. One of the titles for God is Lord, a translation of Adonai. There is yet another name which is particularly assigned to God as His special or proper name, that is, the four letters YHWH (Exodus 3:14 and Isaiah 42:8). This name has not been pronounced by the Jews because of reverence for the great sacredness of the divine name. Therefore, it has been consistently translated LORD. The only exception to this translation of YHWH is when it occurs in immediate proximity to the word Lord, that is, Adonai. In that case it is regularly translated GOD in order to avoid confusion. It is known that for many years YHWH has been transliterated as Yahweh, however no complete certainty attaches to this pronunciation."

New English Translation - Preface
"The translation of the Divine Name... This was rendered traditionally as “Jehovah” in the King James Version, but it is generally recognized that this represents a combination of the consonants of the tetragrammaton, YHWH, and the vowels from a completely different Hebrew word, adonai (“master”), which were substituted by the Masoretes so that pronunciation of the Divine Name could be avoided: whenever YHWH appeared in the text, the presence of the vowels from the word adonai signaled to the reader that the word adonai was to be pronounced instead... In spite of this, however, the Committee eventually decided to follow the usage of most English translations and render the Divine Name as “LORD” in small caps. Thus the frequent combination Yahweh elohim is rendered as LORD God...Other combinations like Yahweh Sebaoth, traditionally rendered “Lord of Hosts,” have been translated either as “Sovereign Lord” or “the Lord who leads armies” depending on the context. Such instances are typically indicated by a translator’s note [tn]."

New International Version - Preface
"In regard to the divine name YHWH, commonly referred to as the Tetragrammaton, the translators adopted the device used in most English versions...of rendering that name as "LORD" in capital letters to distinguish it from adonai, another Hebrew word rendered "Lord" for which small letters are used."

New King James Version (Holman) - Preface
"The covenant name of God was usually translated from the Hebrew word as LORD or GOD, using capital letters as shown, as in the King James Version. This convention is also maintained in the New King James Version when the Old Testament is quoted in the New."

New Living Translation - Preface
"We have rendered the tetragrammaton (YHWH) consistently as “the Lord,” utilizing a form with small capitals that is common among English translations. This will distinguish it from the name ’adonai, which we render “Lord.” When ’adonai and YHWH appear in conjunction, we have rendered it “Sovereign Lord.” This also distinguishes ’adonai YHWH from cases where YHWH appears with ’elohim, which is rendered “Lord God.” When YH (the short form of YHWH) and YHWH appear together, we have rendered it “Lord God.” The Hebrew word ’adon is rendered “lord,” or “master,” or sometimes “sir.”



Revised English Bible - Introduction to the Old Testament
"The divine name (YHWH in Hebrew characters) was probably pronounced 'Yahweh', but the name was regarded as ineffable, too sacred to be pronounced."

Revised Standard Version - Preface
"...the King James Version had employed this in four places, but everywhere else, except in three cases where it was employed as part of a proper name, used the English word LORD (or in certain cases GOD) printed in capitals. The present revision returns to the procedure of the King James Version, which follows the precedent of the ancient Greek and Latin translators and the long established practice in the reading of the Hebrew scriptures in the synagogue."

"long established practice" of the pharisees

Today's English Version - Preface
" Following an ancient tradition...begun by the first translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (the Septuagint) and followed by the vast majority of English translations, the distinctive Hebrew name for God (usually transliterated Jehovah or Yahweh), is in this translation represented by "LORD." When Adonai, normally translated "Lord," occurs preposed to Yahweh, the combination is rendered by the phrase "Sovereign LORD."

The World English Bible - Preface
"The World English Bible main edition translates God’s Proper Name in the Old Testament as “Yahweh.” The Messianic Edition and the British Edition of the World English Bible translates the same name as “LORD” (all capital letters), or when used with “Lord” (mixed case, translated from “Adonai”,) GOD. There are solid translational arguments for both traditions."

Yahshua (Jesus) said to the Pharisees: Matt 15:3, "And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TELOS.

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Notice it is used 42 times? Let's look at a few of those times...

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Would you miss apply that here and say that is the end of everlasting life? No more everlasting life, it is ended?

Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

The word for custom here is G5056; telos.

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

So now if we end the Commandment (notice it is singular?) then the result is love (charity) out of a pure heart? Lawlessness produces love?

Now this one is a real problem for you misapplication of the word telos...

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Oh no, the end of Christ?

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The end of faith?

The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law.

 

[Mitspa]

Yes and just like I showed in post 1376 how God through James and the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ show that if you say you have faith, but it is not shown in your actions it is a dead faith that does not lead to salvation.
Only a true faith that has actions that show an prove that faith is true and sincere in the Lord lead to salvation, one can not say they have faith and still have actions of hatred, and willful sin in their life. Your actions from a true faith in the Lord will be shown with and through love.

Right...but itsd not "works" of law or some sort of moral works to justify.... Its works of faith...meaning we put action to our faith... and God gave us the example of Rahab the HARLOT so we would know that He is not talking about works of the law, to justify ourselves.... And what was her works? m Very simple works...but she acted according to what she believed.