The Heresy of Annihilationism

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Nov 12, 2015
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I wasn't directly referring to you with that comment about no Bible. I just hear it thrown around so much (or at me!) everytime I try to read the Greek. Sorry if you thought that was specifically referring to you! But, you keep reposting the same comment over, to defend your annihilationism. That is bad hermeneutics. If something has lots of support, make a doctrine for it. It there is no much support, or the support is iffy (like using Strong's for a definition!) then, try not to make it a doctrine.
I haven't made it a doctrine. If you read my posts, you will see words and phrases like: I think this or that verse supports, or I believe thus and thus, or I think this and that are pretty strong support for, etc.

What is the comment I keep reposting over and over and have you actually read my posts? I have given the verses I feel support that God may give some the leniency of destruction (which is so awful to me that I only call it leniency in relation to a neverending torture.) I think I've found a lot of support for what I suspect/think/believe. I do not think it is terribly iffy.

I do think the whole post was directed at me. Go back and read your post again. It really was directed to me because you strongly felt I was not okay. And that's fine. There's no problem with you directing a post to me. You don't have to deny it was directed to me. You should know by now you can freely speak to me and with me and I'm not going to get mad or offended.

Lastly, I didn't think you were attacking me...I just thought you were giving me a tongue lashing. :D Now where's my pin?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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I don't understand why people are resistant to reading and interpreting it in its plain literal sense.
The only explanation that fits is that Satan is snaring huge numbers of people today into believing his lies. And that is only because people will refuse to take Scripture PRIMARILY in its plain literal sense. Secondly, these lies have been promoted by the cults for so-long and with such vigor, that people have been fooled into thinking "It must be true".
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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All of the above are complete conjecture prove-all.


Funny I thought they where plain bible verses.

So now Jesus did not speak to the crowds in parables. Ok
Jesus spoke specifically to that generation of Israel in parables in fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah, as follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?

He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you (believers), but not to them (that generation of Israel). Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in parables:

‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’

In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled:

‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s (that generation of Israel) heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’

But blessed are your eyes (believers) because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

Therefore, in answer to the disciples question "why do you speak to the people in parables" Jesus answer was that it was fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy, which the Lord quoted above.

Often people attempt to infer that we can't know what God's word says because Jesus spoke in parables. But what they conveniently forget, is that we who are reading the word of God are given the meaning to most of the parables that were for that generation in the first place.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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The only explanation that fits is that Satan is snaring huge numbers of people today into believing his lies. And that is only because people will refuse to take Scripture PRIMARILY in its plain literal sense. Secondly, these lies have been promoted by the cults for so-long and with such vigor, that people have been fooled into thinking "It must be true".
What was Satan’s first lie?

“You will not surely die”.

Satan has snookered most of Christianity into believing that lie, and even has them vehemently defending it.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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What was Satan’s first lie?

“You will not surely die”.

Satan has snookered most of Christianity into believing that lie, and even has them vehemently defending it.
That's a stretch and misapplication in this discussion. Sure though, lets just say that a majority of Christians are pawns of the devil using a doctrine that converts souls to Christ. I mean, we can argue whether or not fire and brimstone preaching is the best evangelistic method (or even appropriate), but the devil would be working against himself to create a doctrine that, historically, drew in crowds to repentance (the Great Awakening, Jonathan Edwards).
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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That's a stretch and misapplication in this discussion.
It is true that most Christians believe that when a person dies, he really doesn’t. And it’s true that it is the first recorded lie in the Bible.

Sure though, lets just say that a majority of Christians are pawns of the devil using a doctrine that converts souls to Christ. I mean, we can argue whether or not fire and brimstone preaching is the best evangelistic method (or even appropriate), but the devil would be working against himself to create a doctrine that, historically, drew in crowds to repentance (the Great Awakening, Jonathan Edwards).
Fire and brimstone preaching about the torments of hell turns more people away from the gospel than leads people to salvation. It puts focus on the fear of the devil rather than the love of Christ.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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That's a stretch and misapplication in this discussion. Sure though, lets just say that a majority of Christians are pawns of the devil using a doctrine that converts souls to Christ. I mean, we can argue whether or not fire and brimstone preaching is the best evangelistic method (or even appropriate), but the devil would be working against himself to create a doctrine that, historically, drew in crowds to repentance (the Great Awakening, Jonathan Edwards).

I would say because suffering the pangs of hell (fire and brimstone ) is a living work. It is then...…. what kind of fire and brimstone preaching. Scare the hell out of us, or love the hell out of us?

.Jonas as well as Christ came under that kind of peaching . God does not threaten people to believe. But give them the faith to make it possible. No one seeks after God not seen they have no understanding. Mankind gave that up in the garden . God as always must do the first works

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:9-10

David having the Holy Spirit from His mothers womb asks the question the Holy Spirit put on his lips. If?

If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?( No one) we can fear him aright because he gives us Hid hearing of faith to make it possible. No scare tactics that's a different kind of gospel

Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O Lord. Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.
If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. I wait for the Lord, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope. My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning. Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption. And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities. Psalms 130

The father of lies continues to accuse the brethren day and night before God with the fear of hell as a work of suffering one must do after one dies .No purgatory for the believer.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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It is true that most Christians believe that when a person dies, he really doesn’t. And it’s true that it is the first recorded lie in the Bible.


Fire and brimstone preaching about the torments of hell turns more people away from the gospel than leads people to salvation. It puts focus on the fear of the devil rather than the love of Christ.
Funny you say such a thing. Jesus preached more on hell than He did on heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Funny you say such a thing. Jesus preached more on hell than He did on heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
He warned of the upcoming judgment, and about avoiding being thrown into gehenna, where people will be destroyed.

He did not preach eternal torments, burning alive forever in agony.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Teaching that hell is not eternal minimizes what God has said in His Word. If a sinner just dies and ceases to exist, then why would it matter if he lived in sin all his life? Annihilationism actually minimizes the love of God.
I hit disagree on this because no one has said the condition of being separated from God/eternally dead/hell is not an eternal state of being separated/dead. That's the main reason why I hit disagree. I just always like to explain why I have hit disagree.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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What was Satan’s first lie?

“You will not surely die”.

Satan has snookered most of Christianity into believing that lie, and even has them vehemently defending it.
lol you are lacking in the context of surely die. the Bible tells us Adam did die . so yes satan did lie and from the point on God Himself provided what was need to postpone the eternal Judgement year after year in the atonement Generation to generation to the very day Jesus said it is Finished Now the one who created hell for the devil to be thrown in for ever and ever in torment has made away to receive eternal life .
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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You can laugh it off if you like..

you are lacking in the context of surely die. the Bible tells us Adam did die . so yes satan did lie and from the point on God Himself provided what was need to postpone the eternal Judgement year after year in the atonement Generation to generation to the very day Jesus said it is Finished Now the one who created hell for the devil to be thrown in for ever and ever in torment has made away to receive eternal life .
What?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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He warned of the upcoming judgment, and about avoiding being thrown into gehenna, where people will be destroyed.

He did not preach eternal torments, burning alive forever in agony.
Jesus did and it was provide . you cannot change the word of Jesus because you disagree. The error of annilhilationism is even becoming to change the position more to that of universalism. No hell torment for ever even if Jesus said it is. Now all will be saved. it's is becoming more foolish as the refusal to say what the bible says. Bible says hell is eternal Nope substituted with human reasoning , Jesus said it , Nope it a metaphor the they substitute the word of God for conjecture .
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Jesus did and it was provide . you cannot change the word of Jesus because you disagree.
Jesus did not preach eternal torments, burning alive forever in agony.

The error of annilhilationism is even becoming to change the position more to that of universalism.
No, universalism teaches that everyone will be saved. Annihilationists do not believe everyone will be saved.

No hell torment for ever even if Jesus said it is.
Jesus did not preach eternal torments, burning alive forever in agony.

Now all will be saved.
See above. You're creating strawmen.

it's is becoming more foolish as the refusal to say what the bible says. Bible says hell is eternal
The second death will be permanent. Those thrown into the lake of fire will be gone forever.

Nope substituted with human reasoning , Jesus said it , Nope it a metaphor the they substitute the word of God for conjecture .
What?
 

Deade

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I wasn't directly referring to you with that comment about no Bible. I just hear it thrown around so much (or at me!) everytime I try to read the Greek. Sorry if you thought that was specifically referring to you! But, you keep reposting the same comment over, to defend your annihilationism. That is bad hermeneutics. If something has lots of support, make a doctrine for it. It there is no much support, or the support is iffy (like using Strong's for a definition!) then, try not to make it a doctrine.

I still don't understand why people are really arguing about this. I avoided this thread like the plague. I don't understand, because no one is going to lose their salvation, about what they believe about where the lost go when they die. So much more important to live for Jesus! But, not one thread about spiritual formation in this whole forum, just arguing about side issues. Which is also not addressed to you!

And you know I love you, too! Sorry you thought because I quoted you, my whole post was directed to you. I tend to go down a lot of rabbit trails, I didn't mean for it to come off as attacking you. Please forgive me!
Okay Angela, fair enough. I will repost with modern English. This will be in NKJV. I hope it helps. Thanks.

Angela, could you weigh the following scriptures without deducing Rev. 20:10 is nothing more than a memorial, like we have films of cleaning out the holocaust death camps. Somehow these scenes are preserved. File, tape or digitally, I am sure we don't need to give God an idea on how to store data. The same in Mark 9 where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.

Now for Rev. 20:10 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

The last "are" in that sentence was added by translators for ease of reading. You could read "where the beast and false profit were cast." ESV uses "were." What happens when you toss a live person into fire, they die! Even Satan will not be tormented forever.

Eze. 28:14: "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones." This establishes identity.

Eze. 28:18: "You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you."

Eze. 28:19: "All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.

You are the Greek expert, how do we parse Rev. 20:10 with Eze. 28:19?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Jesus did not preach eternal torments, burning alive forever in agony.


No, universalism teaches that everyone will be saved. Annihilationists do not believe everyone will be saved.


Jesus did not preach eternal torments, burning alive forever in agony.


See above. You're creating strawmen.


The second death will be permanent. Those thrown into the lake of fire will be gone forever.


What?
you do not even know what it ia you say you believe LOl . someone sold you a hill beans guy, the doctrine of annihilationism is well documented . You should study more of the founders of this heresy .
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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Jesus did not preach eternal torments, burning alive forever in agony.


No, universalism teaches that everyone will be saved. Annihilationists do not believe everyone will be saved.


Jesus did not preach eternal torments, burning alive forever in agony.


See above. You're creating strawmen.


The second death will be permanent. Those thrown into the lake of fire will be gone forever.


What?
CS1 gave you Bible verses which support what he's saying and you throw carnal wisdom:( at him. Quite sad really
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Okay Angela, fair enough. I will repost with modern English. This will be in NKJV. I hope it helps. Thanks.

Angela, could you weigh the following scriptures without deducing Rev. 20:10 is nothing more than a memorial, like we have films of cleaning out the holocaust death camps. Somehow these scenes are preserved. File, tape or digitally, I am sure we don't need to give God an idea on how to store data. The same in Mark 9 where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.

Now for Rev. 20:10 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

The last "are" in that sentence was added by translators for ease of reading. You could read "where the beast and false profit were cast." ESV uses "were." What happens when you toss a live person into fire, they die! Even Satan will not be tormented forever.

Eze. 28:14: "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones." This establishes identity.

Eze. 28:18: "You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you."

Eze. 28:19: "All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.

You are the Greek expert, how do we parse Rev. 20:10 with Eze. 28:19?
lol first off the parallel of Rev 20:10 is not Eze 28:19 this is the false narratives and conjecture with improper Biblical interpretation . Rev and the context of Hell are in the Gospels and the words of Jesus If you do not establish Christ as the authority on the topic of HELL when HE said ever lasting torment . then that is error. you do not look back at eze 28:19 to get clearer Picture of hel when Jesus provided . What Jesus said IS authoritative . Does anyone remember who Jesus is ? HE is the Word of God therefore HE is the authority when HE speaks . And Jesus said HELL was an eternal torment . Only pride and foolishness argues with Jesus on this topic LOl
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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CS1 gave you Bible verses which support what he's saying and you throw carnal wisdom:( at him. Quite sad really
what is sad is they look back in in books of the old testament with limited revelation for hell, and over look the words of Jesus who is the authority when he speaks . just look at the Bible verses they used Jesus is almost no where to be found to provide support for their position . Error 101
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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lol first off the parallel of Rev 20:10 is not Eze 28:19 this is the false narratives and conjecture with improper Biblical interpretation . Rev and the context of Hell are in the Gospels and the words of Jesus If you do not establish Christ as the authority on the topic of HELL when HE said ever lasting torment . then that is error. you do not look back at eze 28:19 to get clearer Picture of hel when Jesus provided . What Jesus said IS authoritative . Does anyone remember who Jesus is ? HE is the Word of God therefore HE is the authority when HE speaks . And Jesus said HELL was an eternal torment . Only pride and foolishness argues with Jesus on this topic LOl
Come on, you are a moderator. You should refrain from name calling. Remember what Jesus said about calling another fool.

Matt. 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."