The Herods
- Thread starter zone
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Which Herod are we talking about here? I was thinking Herod the Great.
[TABLE="class: kno-fs ts, width: 424"]
[TR]
[TD]Born: 73 BC, Jericho
Died: 4 BC, Jericho
Parents: Antipater the Idumaean
Buried: Judea
Children: Herod Antipas, Herod Archelaus, Herod Philip, Antipater,Aristobulus IV, Alexander, son of Herod, Salampsio
(Wikepedia)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The reason I thought so was because he is the one who is renowned for his building, murders, etc. Correct me if I have the wrong Herod!
[TABLE="class: kno-fs ts, width: 424"]
[TR]
[TD]Born: 73 BC, Jericho
Died: 4 BC, Jericho
Parents: Antipater the Idumaean
Buried: Judea
Children: Herod Antipas, Herod Archelaus, Herod Philip, Antipater,Aristobulus IV, Alexander, son of Herod, Salampsio
(Wikepedia)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The reason I thought so was because he is the one who is renowned for his building, murders, etc. Correct me if I have the wrong Herod!
seems to be THE king of Daniel 11.
the particular one who slaughtered the innocents and stuff.
Herod is a title like caesar, so the succession of them matters, pointing to any identified by name in scripture i reckon.
there were (i think 2 caesars who don't figure in it except as reigning from rome; and one or two herods that aren't crucial cuz they didn't actually appear as involved in Judea...will get that list out again and check it)
the gentile bad guys (antiochus etc) are all in there also, obviously.
what i did not know was that they WERE all intermarried...just like Daniel 4 (? i think) said they would be.
co-mingled and stuff.
only on first coffee....
Last edited:
Angela:
can you look at this in the greek and see what it is saying exactly? purdy pleeze sis
(zone is determined to start learning greek)
Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
and likewise here:
Revelation 3
8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
it's the words jews i'm interested in, obviously.
what is the Spirit saying exactly?
all i have to look at right now is Thayer's.
is it just simply that Jesus is saying at that point anybody identifying as a jew (in this case Herod, those who fell away under him) who had rejected Him is just apostate?
Thayer's seems to be saying when joined to a noun it's Israel, when not it's a broader application (i.e: religion; affiliation).
is that right?
k....2nd coffee.
can you look at this in the greek and see what it is saying exactly? purdy pleeze sis
(zone is determined to start learning greek)
Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
and likewise here:
Revelation 3
8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
it's the words jews i'm interested in, obviously.
what is the Spirit saying exactly?
all i have to look at right now is Thayer's.
is it just simply that Jesus is saying at that point anybody identifying as a jew (in this case Herod, those who fell away under him) who had rejected Him is just apostate?
Thayer's seems to be saying when joined to a noun it's Israel, when not it's a broader application (i.e: religion; affiliation).
is that right?
k....2nd coffee.
HEROD’S TEMPLE
For example, Robinson's Arch, one of the largest masonry arches (75 feet tall, more than 45 feet across) in the ancient world, supported a massive staircase that ran from the Tyropean Valley and the Lower City to the Royal Stoa (the place of buying and selling, the location of the temple treasury, and the Sanhedrin's meeting place).
Herod's Temple | Follow The Rabbi < click
For example, Robinson's Arch, one of the largest masonry arches (75 feet tall, more than 45 feet across) in the ancient world, supported a massive staircase that ran from the Tyropean Valley and the Lower City to the Royal Stoa (the place of buying and selling, the location of the temple treasury, and the Sanhedrin's meeting place).
Herod's Temple | Follow The Rabbi < click
HEROD’S TEMPLE
The most ambitious of Herod’s projects was the re-building of the Temple, which was almost certainly an attempt to gain popularity among his subjects who, he knew, held him in contempt and also to make amends for his cruelty toward the rabbis.
It took 10,000 men ten years just to build the retaining walls around the Temple Mount (on top of which the Muslim shrine, the Dome of the Rock, stands today). The Western Wall (formerly known as the Wailing Wall) is merely part of that 500-meter-long retaining wall that was designed to hold a huge man-made platform that could accommodate twenty four football fields. When it was completed, it was the world’s largest functioning religious site and until today it remains the largest man-made platform in the world.
Why did he make the Temple Mount so large?
There’s no question that Herod had a huge ego and liked to impress people with grandiose building projects. But there is also another more practical reason. Historians estimate that there were about 6-7 million Jews living in the Roman Empire (plus another 1 million in Persia), many of whom would come to Jerusalem for the three pilgrimage festivals: Passover, Shavuot and Sukkot. So you had to have a huge space to accommodate such a huge number of people. Hence the size of the platform.
When it came to building the Temple itself on top of this platform, Herod truly outdid himself, and even the Talmud acknowledges that the end-result was spectacular. “He who has not seen Herod’s building, has never in his life seen a truly grand building.” (Talmud-Bava Basra 4a)
The Holy of Holies was covered in gold; the walls and columns of the other buildings were of white marble; the floors were of carrara marble, its blue tinge giving the impression of a moving sea of water; the curtains were tapestries of blue, white, scarlet and purple thread, depicting, according to Josephus, “the whole vista of the heavens.”
Josephus describes how incredible it looked:
Viewed from without, the Sanctuary had everything that could amaze either mind or eyes. Overlaid all round with stout plates of gold, the first rays of the sun it reflected so fierce a blaze of fire that those who endeavored to look at it were forced to turn away as if they had looked straight at the sun. To strangers as they approached it seemed in the distance like a mountain covered with snow; for any part not covered with gold was dazzling white… (The Jewish War, p. 304)
Herod saw fit however, to place at the main entrance a huge Roman eagle, which the pious Jews saw as a sacrilege. A group of Torah students promptly smashed this emblem of idolatry and oppression, but Herod had them hunted down, dragged in chains to his residence in Jericho, where they were burned alive.
Having built the Temple, Herod took pains to make sure it would be run without future problems of this kind. He appointed his own High Priest, having by then put to death forty-six leading members of the Sanhedrin, the rabbinical court.
Herod, the Great < click
The most ambitious of Herod’s projects was the re-building of the Temple, which was almost certainly an attempt to gain popularity among his subjects who, he knew, held him in contempt and also to make amends for his cruelty toward the rabbis.
It took 10,000 men ten years just to build the retaining walls around the Temple Mount (on top of which the Muslim shrine, the Dome of the Rock, stands today). The Western Wall (formerly known as the Wailing Wall) is merely part of that 500-meter-long retaining wall that was designed to hold a huge man-made platform that could accommodate twenty four football fields. When it was completed, it was the world’s largest functioning religious site and until today it remains the largest man-made platform in the world.
Why did he make the Temple Mount so large?
There’s no question that Herod had a huge ego and liked to impress people with grandiose building projects. But there is also another more practical reason. Historians estimate that there were about 6-7 million Jews living in the Roman Empire (plus another 1 million in Persia), many of whom would come to Jerusalem for the three pilgrimage festivals: Passover, Shavuot and Sukkot. So you had to have a huge space to accommodate such a huge number of people. Hence the size of the platform.
When it came to building the Temple itself on top of this platform, Herod truly outdid himself, and even the Talmud acknowledges that the end-result was spectacular. “He who has not seen Herod’s building, has never in his life seen a truly grand building.” (Talmud-Bava Basra 4a)
The Holy of Holies was covered in gold; the walls and columns of the other buildings were of white marble; the floors were of carrara marble, its blue tinge giving the impression of a moving sea of water; the curtains were tapestries of blue, white, scarlet and purple thread, depicting, according to Josephus, “the whole vista of the heavens.”
Josephus describes how incredible it looked:
Viewed from without, the Sanctuary had everything that could amaze either mind or eyes. Overlaid all round with stout plates of gold, the first rays of the sun it reflected so fierce a blaze of fire that those who endeavored to look at it were forced to turn away as if they had looked straight at the sun. To strangers as they approached it seemed in the distance like a mountain covered with snow; for any part not covered with gold was dazzling white… (The Jewish War, p. 304)
Herod saw fit however, to place at the main entrance a huge Roman eagle, which the pious Jews saw as a sacrilege. A group of Torah students promptly smashed this emblem of idolatry and oppression, but Herod had them hunted down, dragged in chains to his residence in Jericho, where they were burned alive.
Having built the Temple, Herod took pains to make sure it would be run without future problems of this kind. He appointed his own High Priest, having by then put to death forty-six leading members of the Sanhedrin, the rabbinical court.
Herod, the Great < click
The Royal Stoa (Hebrew: הסטיו המלכותי, also known as the Royal Colonnade, Royal Portico, Royal Cloisters, Royal Basilica or Stoa Basileia) was an ancient basilica constructed by Herod the Great during his renovation of the Temple Mount at the end of the 1st century BCE. Probably Herod's most magnificent secular construction, the three-aisled structure was described by Josephus as deserving "to be mentioned better than any other under the sun."
A center of public and commercial activity, the Royal Stoa was the likely location of Jesus' Cleansing of the Temple. The Royal Stoa overlooked Jerusalem's residential and commercial quarters, and at its southwestern corner was the place from which a ram's horn was blown to announce the start of holy days.
Every major Roman city had a basilica which was used for banking, law courts, and other commercial transactions. In Jerusalem, the Royal Stoa was the center of this activity.[15] In the forty years prior to the Great Revolt it served as the seat of the Sanhedrin, Judaism's supreme judicial court, which was moved from the Chamber of Stone to the "Shop" (Chanuyot in the Talmud), referring to the commercial activities conducted in the Stoa.[16][17] A fragment of a monumental inscription found near the eastern Huldah gates below the Stoa refers to the Zeqenim (elders) and may indicate the Sanhedrin's meeting place near the gates or in the Stoa above.[18]
Purpose
This center of commercial activity within sight of the Temple was considered irreverent to many devout Jews.[17] It was also a site of commerce related to the Temple ritual, where sacrificial doves could be bought and coins bearing prohibited images could be exchanged. It is therefore a likely location for Jesus' confrontation with the dove sellers and money changers which is related in chapter 21 of the Gospel of Matthew.[7] Special coinage was used for sacred contributions and other purposes. The Israel Antiquities Authority's numismatist Donald T. Ariel[19] has proposed that the Royal Stoa as the site for a mint, run by the priesthood. During the Great Revolt against Rome, this may have been the site where silver shekels were produced. The stoa's convenient proximity to the Temple's silver stores and the area's use for other commercial purposes argue for identification of the stoa as the location of minting operations.[20] Other "Revolt" coinage was in base metal, and these may have been struck elsewhere in Jerusalem.[19]
Royal Stoa (Jerusalem) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - click
A center of public and commercial activity, the Royal Stoa was the likely location of Jesus' Cleansing of the Temple. The Royal Stoa overlooked Jerusalem's residential and commercial quarters, and at its southwestern corner was the place from which a ram's horn was blown to announce the start of holy days.
Every major Roman city had a basilica which was used for banking, law courts, and other commercial transactions. In Jerusalem, the Royal Stoa was the center of this activity.[15] In the forty years prior to the Great Revolt it served as the seat of the Sanhedrin, Judaism's supreme judicial court, which was moved from the Chamber of Stone to the "Shop" (Chanuyot in the Talmud), referring to the commercial activities conducted in the Stoa.[16][17] A fragment of a monumental inscription found near the eastern Huldah gates below the Stoa refers to the Zeqenim (elders) and may indicate the Sanhedrin's meeting place near the gates or in the Stoa above.[18]
Purpose
This center of commercial activity within sight of the Temple was considered irreverent to many devout Jews.[17] It was also a site of commerce related to the Temple ritual, where sacrificial doves could be bought and coins bearing prohibited images could be exchanged. It is therefore a likely location for Jesus' confrontation with the dove sellers and money changers which is related in chapter 21 of the Gospel of Matthew.[7] Special coinage was used for sacred contributions and other purposes. The Israel Antiquities Authority's numismatist Donald T. Ariel[19] has proposed that the Royal Stoa as the site for a mint, run by the priesthood. During the Great Revolt against Rome, this may have been the site where silver shekels were produced. The stoa's convenient proximity to the Temple's silver stores and the area's use for other commercial purposes argue for identification of the stoa as the location of minting operations.[20] Other "Revolt" coinage was in base metal, and these may have been struck elsewhere in Jerusalem.[19]
Royal Stoa (Jerusalem) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - click
C
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him - Shall disturb him, or alarm him. That is, he will hear something from those quarters that will disarrange all his other plans, or that will summon him forth in his last and final expedition - on that expedition in which "he will come to his end" Daniel 11:45, or which will be the end of this series of historical events. The reference here is to the winding up of this series of transactions, and, according to the view taken on Daniel 11:40 (see the note at that place), it is not necessary to suppose that this would happen immediately after what is stated in Daniel 11:43, but it is rather to be regarded as a statement of what would occur in the end, or of the manner in which the person here referred to would finally come to an end, or in which these events would be closed. As a matter of fact, Antiochus, as will be seen in the notes at Daniel 11:45, was called forth in a warlike expedition by tidings or reports from Parthia and Armenia - regions lying to the east and the north, and it was in this expedition that he lost his life, and that this series of historical events was closed. Lengerke says, Antiochus assembled an army to take vengeance on the Jews, who, after the close of the unfortunate campaign in Egypt, rose up, under the Maccabees, against Antiochus, 1 Macc. 3:10, following Then the intelligence that the Parthians in the east, and the Armenians in the north, had armed themselves for war against him, alarmed him. So Tacitus (Hist. v. 8) says (Antiochus Judaeis), Demere superstitionem et mores Groecorum dare adnixus, quominus teterrimain gentem in melius mutaret, Parthorum bello prohibitus est, nam ea tempestate Arsaces defecerat. In the year 147 b.c., Antiochus went on the expedition to Persia and Armenia, on the return from which he died. The occasions for this were these:
But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him - Shall disturb him, or alarm him. That is, he will hear something from those quarters that will disarrange all his other plans, or that will summon him forth in his last and final expedition - on that expedition in which "he will come to his end" Daniel 11:45, or which will be the end of this series of historical events. The reference here is to the winding up of this series of transactions, and, according to the view taken on Daniel 11:40 (see the note at that place), it is not necessary to suppose that this would happen immediately after what is stated in Daniel 11:43, but it is rather to be regarded as a statement of what would occur in the end, or of the manner in which the person here referred to would finally come to an end, or in which these events would be closed. As a matter of fact, Antiochus, as will be seen in the notes at Daniel 11:45, was called forth in a warlike expedition by tidings or reports from Parthia and Armenia - regions lying to the east and the north, and it was in this expedition that he lost his life, and that this series of historical events was closed. Lengerke says, Antiochus assembled an army to take vengeance on the Jews, who, after the close of the unfortunate campaign in Egypt, rose up, under the Maccabees, against Antiochus, 1 Macc. 3:10, following Then the intelligence that the Parthians in the east, and the Armenians in the north, had armed themselves for war against him, alarmed him. So Tacitus (Hist. v. 8) says (Antiochus Judaeis), Demere superstitionem et mores Groecorum dare adnixus, quominus teterrimain gentem in melius mutaret, Parthorum bello prohibitus est, nam ea tempestate Arsaces defecerat. In the year 147 b.c., Antiochus went on the expedition to Persia and Armenia, on the return from which he died. The occasions for this were these:
Daniel 10:14
Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
Daniel 11
36“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. 38He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.
40“At the time of the end, the king of the south shall attackg him, but the king of the north shall rush upon him like a whirlwind, with chariots and horsemen, and with many ships. And he shall come into countries and shall overflow and pass through. 41He shall come into the glorious land. And tens of thousands shall fall, but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites. 42He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43He shall become ruler of the treasures of gold and of silver, and all the precious things of Egypt, and the Libyans and the Cushites shall follow in his train. 44But news from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go out with great fury to destroy and devote many to destruction. 45And he shall pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the glorious holy mountain. Yet he shall come to his end, with none to help him.
....
Lord willing, tomorrow i'm going to propose that these passages are referring to HEROD.
i knew the Herods have been overlooked, consistently.
let's see what happens.....
Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
Daniel 11
36“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. 38He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.
40“At the time of the end, the king of the south shall attackg him, but the king of the north shall rush upon him like a whirlwind, with chariots and horsemen, and with many ships. And he shall come into countries and shall overflow and pass through. 41He shall come into the glorious land. And tens of thousands shall fall, but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites. 42He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43He shall become ruler of the treasures of gold and of silver, and all the precious things of Egypt, and the Libyans and the Cushites shall follow in his train. 44But news from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go out with great fury to destroy and devote many to destruction. 45And he shall pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the glorious holy mountain. Yet he shall come to his end, with none to help him.
....
Lord willing, tomorrow i'm going to propose that these passages are referring to HEROD.
i knew the Herods have been overlooked, consistently.
let's see what happens.....
C
Antiochus went on the expedition to Persia and Armenia, on the return from which he died. The occasions for this were these:
(a) Artaxias, the king of Armenia, who was his vassal, had revolted from him, and
(b) he sought to replenish his exhausted treasury, that he might wage the war with Judas Maccabeus.
See 1 Macc. 3:27-37; Jos. Ant. b. xii. ch. vii. Section 2; Appian, Syriac. xlvi. 80; Porphyry, in Jerome, in loc.
Therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy ... - Great fury at the revolt of Artaxias, and especially at this juncture when he was waging war with the Jews; and great fury at the Jews, with a determination to obtain the means utterly to destroy them. 1 Macc. 3:27: "Now when king Antiochus heard these things (the successes of Judas Maceabeus), he was full of indignation." In every way his wrath was kindled. He was enraged against the Jews on account of their success; he was enraged against Artaxias for revolting from him; he was enraged because his treasury was exhausted, and he had not the means of prosecuting the war. In this mood of mind he crossed the Euphrates (1 Macc. 3:37) to prosecute the war in the East, and, as it is said here, "utterly to make away many." Everything conspired to kindle his fury, and in this state of mind, he went forth on his last expedition to the East. Nothing, in fact, could better describe the state of mind of Antiochus than the language used here by the angel to Daniel.
But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
(a) Artaxias, the king of Armenia, who was his vassal, had revolted from him, and
(b) he sought to replenish his exhausted treasury, that he might wage the war with Judas Maccabeus.
See 1 Macc. 3:27-37; Jos. Ant. b. xii. ch. vii. Section 2; Appian, Syriac. xlvi. 80; Porphyry, in Jerome, in loc.
Therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy ... - Great fury at the revolt of Artaxias, and especially at this juncture when he was waging war with the Jews; and great fury at the Jews, with a determination to obtain the means utterly to destroy them. 1 Macc. 3:27: "Now when king Antiochus heard these things (the successes of Judas Maceabeus), he was full of indignation." In every way his wrath was kindled. He was enraged against the Jews on account of their success; he was enraged against Artaxias for revolting from him; he was enraged because his treasury was exhausted, and he had not the means of prosecuting the war. In this mood of mind he crossed the Euphrates (1 Macc. 3:37) to prosecute the war in the East, and, as it is said here, "utterly to make away many." Everything conspired to kindle his fury, and in this state of mind, he went forth on his last expedition to the East. Nothing, in fact, could better describe the state of mind of Antiochus than the language used here by the angel to Daniel.
But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
okay: this is about Herod:
Daniel 11
36“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. 38He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.
so folks who are ripping this from Daniel and making a future antichrist of it are making a mistake.
Daniel 11
36“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. 38He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.
so folks who are ripping this from Daniel and making a future antichrist of it are making a mistake.
PREMISE:
restart from here....reorganizing.
Daniel 10,
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.
so Cyrus is in power at the time.
Gabriel tells Daniel he (Gabriel) had aided Darius.
Daniel 11
The Overthrow of Persia
1Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. 3And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
the fourth certainly to be Xerxes:
2a. and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
Xerxes
Xerxes I of Persia....meaning "ruling over heroes".....also known as Xerxes the Great....was the fourth King of Kings of Persia.
Xerxes I of Persia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Xerxes addresses the council of Persian leaders, and states his reasons for invading Greece: revenge, gain, living up to the glorious Persian tradition. His hubristic dream of world domination. A prize is offered to the general who produces the best troops...
Herodotus: Book Seven
Xerxes I (king of Persia) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
3. And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.
Alexander
Exactly 150 years after Xerxes burned Athens to the ground, Alexander was in the midst of his campaigning in Asia. After defeating the Persian armies on three occasions, he occupied the capital Persepolis...Though himself a non-Greek Macedonian, Alexander always thought of himself as the champion and exponent of Greek culture, and here seems to fancy himself avenging Athens’ destruction.
Athens on Fire
4. And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
Alexander the Great, quickly and powerfully conquered the Persians in a brilliant series of battles, and Greece became the masters of the Oriental World. Alexander died....after his death his empire was divided into four Kingdoms, the most important were Seleucus in Asia, and Ptolemy in Africa. In the division Israel became a part of Syria, under the authority of Seleucus. Shortly after Israel was ruled by Ptolemy Soter, the ruler of Egypt, and he and his successors ruled Israel....the dominion switched to the Seleucid line and Israel in their dominion. The Seleucid's ruled Israel with great cruelty until...the Maccabees revolted and threw off their yoke and Israel became virtually independent for a period...
The Greek Empire (Bible History Online)
History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alexander the Great Empire Map
5. And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.
Seleucus king of the north - stronger and a greater dominion than Ptolemy
Seleucus I ...was a leading officer of Alexander the Great's League of Corinth and one of the Diadochi. In the Wars of the Diadochi that took place after Alexander's death, Seleucus established the Seleucid dynasty and the Seleucid Empire. His kingdom would be one of the last holdouts of Alexander's former empire to Roman rule. They were only outlived by the Ptolemaic Kingdom in Egypt by roughly 34 years....After the death of Alexander, Seleucus was nominated as the satrap of Babylon...Antigonus forced Seleucus to flee from Babylon, but, supported by Ptolemy, he was able to return... Seleucus' later conquests include Persia and Media.
Seleucus I Nicator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(well as Syria; India; Mesopotamia; Thrace; Macedonia and Judea)
Ptolemy king of the south
Ptolemy I Soter, was a half brother of Alexander the Great, King of Macedonia and served under him as a Macedonian General. He later acquired the title of King of Egypt...Ptolemy I Soter was regarded by the Macedonians as the son of Philip II.....Ptolemy I Soter I (Ancient Greek: Πτολεμαῖος Σωτήρ, Ptolemaĩos Sōtḗr, i.e. Ptolemy (pronounced /ˈtɒləmi/) the Savior), also known as Ptolemy Lagides,.....was a Macedonian general under Alexander the Great, who became ruler of Egypt....and founder of both the Ptolemaic Kingdom and the Ptolemaic Dynasty....he took the title of pharaoh.
Ptolemy I Soter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ptolemy's daughter Berenice
6. And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king’s daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.
Antiochus II Theos ...was a Greek king of the Hellenistic Seleucid Kingdom...He inherited a state of war with Egypt, the "Second Syrian War", which was fought along the coasts of Asia Minor, and the constant intrigues of petty despots and restless city-states in Asia Minor. Antiochus also made some attempt to get a footing in Thrace. During the war he was given the title Theos (Greek: Θεός, "God"), being such to the Milesians in slaying the tyrant Timarchus....
Antiochus made peace with Ptolemy II of Egypt, ending the Second Syrian War. Antiochus repudiated his wife Laodice I and exiled her to Ephesus.
To seal the treaty,he married Ptolemy's daughter Berenice and received an enormous dowry....During her stay in Ephesus, Laodice I continued numerous intrigues to become queen again...Antiochus had left Berenice and their infant son Antiochus, in Antioch to live again with Laodice I in Asia Minor. Laodice I took the occasion to poison Antiochus while her partisans at Antioch murdered Berenice and their infant son.
Antiochus II Theos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ptolemy III Euergetes
7. But out of a branch of her roots shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail:
Berenice's brother, Ptolemy III Euergetes succeeded their father and set about to avenge his sister's murder by invading Syria and having Laodice killed.
Berenice (Seleucid queen) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
8. And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north.
9. So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.
he (Ptolemy III) returned back to Egypt, he distributed wheat and corn among the Egyptians to lessen the burden of famine on the population . These wheat and corn brought from Syria as booty . He also brought back some statues of the Egyptian deities which Cambyes took from Egypt few hundred years earlier . Then he used excessive force to put down the revolts of the Egyptians.
Ptolemy III, Euregettes I, the beneficent Visit Egypt Tour Egypt Travel to Egypt
Antiochus Hierax
10. But his sons shall be stirred up, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces: and one shall certainly come, and overflow, and pass through: then shall he return, and be stirred up, even to his fortress.
Antiochus Hierax (Greek: Ἀντίoχoς Ἱέραξ, transl. “Hawk”)...so called from his grasping and ambitious character, was the younger son of Antiochus II and Laodice I and separatist leader in the Hellenistic Seleucid kingdom, who ruled as king of Syria during his brother's reign......On the death of his father....Antiochus waged war on his brother Seleucus II Callinicus, in order to seize Anatolia for himself as an independent kingdom. He defeated his brother at the Battle of Ancyra..
Once more Antiochus attacked the Ptolemaic province of Coele Syria and Phoenicia, and....he seems to have had possession of it before the Aetolian, Scopas, recovered it for Ptolemy.
Antiochus Hierax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
11. And the king of the south shall be moved with choler, and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north: and he shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his hand.
Antiochus III....Syrian king of the Seleucid dynasty, Alexander the Great's successors in Asia.....When his older brother, Seleucus III, was assassinated in Phrygia.....Antiochus succeeded him as king at the age of 18.
.....Molon and Alexander, the satraps of Media and Persia, revolted.....Achaeus sought power and occupied Antioch, but the populace deserted him. Antiochus foolishly overlooked the brief insurrection and instead prepared to attack Egypt. His forces easily gained coastal Phoenicia, Tyre, and Ptolemais, but Antiochus faltered at the fortress of Dora in northern Palestine. This gave Egypt a chance to reorganize its army, and.... Antiochus was defeated in Gaza by Ptolemy IV Philopater.
Antiochus III Facts
12. And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it.
Antiochus III
13. For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches.
16. But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.
Antiochus III succeeds by defeating of Ptolemy V Epiphanes and Scopas.
with much of the war being fought in Judea, Antiochus army consumes most of Judeas wealth.
Antiochus III, called The Great...king of Syria....the son of Seleucus II and brother of Seleucus III...he warred successfully against the Egyptian king Ptolemy V and....obtained possession of all of Palestine and Lebanon.
Antiochus III Megas, King of the Seleucid Empire (-241 - -187) - Genealogy
Antiochus intends to take all of Egypt, but tries intrigue and subversion by giving his daughter.
17. He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.
Antiochus III indicated his willingness to make peace with Ptolemy V and to have his daughter Cleopatra I marry Ptolemy V. ....Later on, Egypt's Ptolemaic kings were to argue that Cleopatra I had received Coele-Syria as her dowry and, therefore, this territory again belonged to Egypt. It is not clear if this was the case. However, in practice, Coele-Syria remained a Seleucid possession...In Alexandria, Cleopatra I was called the Syrian.....As part of the Ptolemaic cult she was honoured with her husband as Theoi Epiphaneis. In line with ancient Egyptian tradition, she was also named adelphe (= sister) of Ptolemy V.
A synod of priests held at Memphis.....transferred all honours that Ptolemy V had received...(written on the Rosetta stone) to his wife.
Cleopatra I was appointed vizier and upon her husband's death....she ruled on behalf of her young son, Ptolemy VI.
Antiochus III the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
18. After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.
Antiochus then moved to Asia Minor, by land and by sea, to secure the coast towns which belonged to the remnants of Ptolemaic overseas dominions and the independent Greek cities. This enterprise earned him the antagonism of the Roman Republic, since Smyrna and Lampsacus appealed to the republic of the west, and the tension grew after Antiochus had in 196 BC established a footing in Thrace. The evacuation of Greece by the Romans gave Antiochus his opportunity, and he now had the fugitive Hannibal at his court to urge him on.
Antiochus III the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
19. Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.
Antiochus invaded Greece with a 10,000 man army, and was elected the commander in chief of the Aetolian League....however, the Romans under Manius Acilius Glabrio routed him at Thermopylae, forcing him to withdraw to Asia Minor. The Romans followed up their success by invading Anatolia, and the decisive victory of Scipio Asiaticus at Magnesia ad Sipylum...following the defeat of Hannibal at sea off Side, delivered Asia Minor into their hands.
...Antiochus III attempted to pillage a temple of the god Ba’al in Elam, proving his previous actions in Ecbatana were not at all atypical. The underlying motive was again undoubtedly pecuniary. Following the treaty of Apamea, Antiochus III badly needed coin and bullion to pay the Roman indemnity. He had already paid two down payments together totaling 3000 silver talents, but now was required to produce 1000 silver talents per year for the next twelve years.
The war with Rome had no doubt been expensive, and his tactical defeats in Greece and Asia Minor meant that he would have had little booty to offset his costs.
Native Temples and Predatory Rule in the Seleucid Empire (Working Paper) | Michael Taylor - Academia.edu
...the Seleucid king abandoned all the country north of the Taurus, which the Roman Republic distributed amongst its local allies. As a consequence of this blow to the Seleucid power, the outlying provinces of the empire, recovered by Antiochus, reasserted their independence. Antiochus mounted a fresh eastern expedition in Luristan, where he died while pillaging a temple of Bel at Elymaïs, Persia.
Antiochus III the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Seleucus IV Philopator
20. Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.
Antiochus died....on another expedition to the east, where he sought to extract money to pay the indemnity.....The reign of his son and successor Seleucus IV Philopator..... largely spent in attempts to pay the large indemnity, and Seleucus was ultimately assassinated by his minister Heliodorus.
Seleucid Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
OH WOW I CAN NOT BELIEVE I AM TRYING TO DO THIS
do i have to go through
Antiochus Epiphanes - 11:21-32
and The Maccabees - 11:32-35
to GET TO HEROD.....arg.
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.
so Cyrus is in power at the time.
Gabriel tells Daniel he (Gabriel) had aided Darius.
Daniel 11
The Overthrow of Persia
1Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. 3And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
the fourth certainly to be Xerxes:
2a. and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
Xerxes
Xerxes I of Persia....meaning "ruling over heroes".....also known as Xerxes the Great....was the fourth King of Kings of Persia.
Xerxes I of Persia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Xerxes addresses the council of Persian leaders, and states his reasons for invading Greece: revenge, gain, living up to the glorious Persian tradition. His hubristic dream of world domination. A prize is offered to the general who produces the best troops...
Herodotus: Book Seven
Xerxes I (king of Persia) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
3. And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.
Alexander
Exactly 150 years after Xerxes burned Athens to the ground, Alexander was in the midst of his campaigning in Asia. After defeating the Persian armies on three occasions, he occupied the capital Persepolis...Though himself a non-Greek Macedonian, Alexander always thought of himself as the champion and exponent of Greek culture, and here seems to fancy himself avenging Athens’ destruction.
Athens on Fire
4. And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
Alexander the Great, quickly and powerfully conquered the Persians in a brilliant series of battles, and Greece became the masters of the Oriental World. Alexander died....after his death his empire was divided into four Kingdoms, the most important were Seleucus in Asia, and Ptolemy in Africa. In the division Israel became a part of Syria, under the authority of Seleucus. Shortly after Israel was ruled by Ptolemy Soter, the ruler of Egypt, and he and his successors ruled Israel....the dominion switched to the Seleucid line and Israel in their dominion. The Seleucid's ruled Israel with great cruelty until...the Maccabees revolted and threw off their yoke and Israel became virtually independent for a period...
The Greek Empire (Bible History Online)
History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alexander the Great Empire Map
5. And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.
Seleucus king of the north - stronger and a greater dominion than Ptolemy
Seleucus I ...was a leading officer of Alexander the Great's League of Corinth and one of the Diadochi. In the Wars of the Diadochi that took place after Alexander's death, Seleucus established the Seleucid dynasty and the Seleucid Empire. His kingdom would be one of the last holdouts of Alexander's former empire to Roman rule. They were only outlived by the Ptolemaic Kingdom in Egypt by roughly 34 years....After the death of Alexander, Seleucus was nominated as the satrap of Babylon...Antigonus forced Seleucus to flee from Babylon, but, supported by Ptolemy, he was able to return... Seleucus' later conquests include Persia and Media.
Seleucus I Nicator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(well as Syria; India; Mesopotamia; Thrace; Macedonia and Judea)
Ptolemy king of the south
Ptolemy I Soter, was a half brother of Alexander the Great, King of Macedonia and served under him as a Macedonian General. He later acquired the title of King of Egypt...Ptolemy I Soter was regarded by the Macedonians as the son of Philip II.....Ptolemy I Soter I (Ancient Greek: Πτολεμαῖος Σωτήρ, Ptolemaĩos Sōtḗr, i.e. Ptolemy (pronounced /ˈtɒləmi/) the Savior), also known as Ptolemy Lagides,.....was a Macedonian general under Alexander the Great, who became ruler of Egypt....and founder of both the Ptolemaic Kingdom and the Ptolemaic Dynasty....he took the title of pharaoh.
Ptolemy I Soter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ptolemy's daughter Berenice
6. And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king’s daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.
Antiochus II Theos ...was a Greek king of the Hellenistic Seleucid Kingdom...He inherited a state of war with Egypt, the "Second Syrian War", which was fought along the coasts of Asia Minor, and the constant intrigues of petty despots and restless city-states in Asia Minor. Antiochus also made some attempt to get a footing in Thrace. During the war he was given the title Theos (Greek: Θεός, "God"), being such to the Milesians in slaying the tyrant Timarchus....
Antiochus made peace with Ptolemy II of Egypt, ending the Second Syrian War. Antiochus repudiated his wife Laodice I and exiled her to Ephesus.
To seal the treaty,he married Ptolemy's daughter Berenice and received an enormous dowry....During her stay in Ephesus, Laodice I continued numerous intrigues to become queen again...Antiochus had left Berenice and their infant son Antiochus, in Antioch to live again with Laodice I in Asia Minor. Laodice I took the occasion to poison Antiochus while her partisans at Antioch murdered Berenice and their infant son.
Antiochus II Theos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ptolemy III Euergetes
7. But out of a branch of her roots shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail:
Berenice's brother, Ptolemy III Euergetes succeeded their father and set about to avenge his sister's murder by invading Syria and having Laodice killed.
Berenice (Seleucid queen) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
8. And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north.
9. So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.
he (Ptolemy III) returned back to Egypt, he distributed wheat and corn among the Egyptians to lessen the burden of famine on the population . These wheat and corn brought from Syria as booty . He also brought back some statues of the Egyptian deities which Cambyes took from Egypt few hundred years earlier . Then he used excessive force to put down the revolts of the Egyptians.
Ptolemy III, Euregettes I, the beneficent Visit Egypt Tour Egypt Travel to Egypt
Antiochus Hierax
10. But his sons shall be stirred up, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces: and one shall certainly come, and overflow, and pass through: then shall he return, and be stirred up, even to his fortress.
Antiochus Hierax (Greek: Ἀντίoχoς Ἱέραξ, transl. “Hawk”)...so called from his grasping and ambitious character, was the younger son of Antiochus II and Laodice I and separatist leader in the Hellenistic Seleucid kingdom, who ruled as king of Syria during his brother's reign......On the death of his father....Antiochus waged war on his brother Seleucus II Callinicus, in order to seize Anatolia for himself as an independent kingdom. He defeated his brother at the Battle of Ancyra..
Once more Antiochus attacked the Ptolemaic province of Coele Syria and Phoenicia, and....he seems to have had possession of it before the Aetolian, Scopas, recovered it for Ptolemy.
Antiochus Hierax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
11. And the king of the south shall be moved with choler, and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north: and he shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his hand.
Antiochus III....Syrian king of the Seleucid dynasty, Alexander the Great's successors in Asia.....When his older brother, Seleucus III, was assassinated in Phrygia.....Antiochus succeeded him as king at the age of 18.
.....Molon and Alexander, the satraps of Media and Persia, revolted.....Achaeus sought power and occupied Antioch, but the populace deserted him. Antiochus foolishly overlooked the brief insurrection and instead prepared to attack Egypt. His forces easily gained coastal Phoenicia, Tyre, and Ptolemais, but Antiochus faltered at the fortress of Dora in northern Palestine. This gave Egypt a chance to reorganize its army, and.... Antiochus was defeated in Gaza by Ptolemy IV Philopater.
Antiochus III Facts
12. And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it.
Antiochus III
13. For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches.
16. But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.
Antiochus III succeeds by defeating of Ptolemy V Epiphanes and Scopas.
with much of the war being fought in Judea, Antiochus army consumes most of Judeas wealth.
Antiochus III, called The Great...king of Syria....the son of Seleucus II and brother of Seleucus III...he warred successfully against the Egyptian king Ptolemy V and....obtained possession of all of Palestine and Lebanon.
Antiochus III Megas, King of the Seleucid Empire (-241 - -187) - Genealogy
Antiochus intends to take all of Egypt, but tries intrigue and subversion by giving his daughter.
17. He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.
Antiochus III indicated his willingness to make peace with Ptolemy V and to have his daughter Cleopatra I marry Ptolemy V. ....Later on, Egypt's Ptolemaic kings were to argue that Cleopatra I had received Coele-Syria as her dowry and, therefore, this territory again belonged to Egypt. It is not clear if this was the case. However, in practice, Coele-Syria remained a Seleucid possession...In Alexandria, Cleopatra I was called the Syrian.....As part of the Ptolemaic cult she was honoured with her husband as Theoi Epiphaneis. In line with ancient Egyptian tradition, she was also named adelphe (= sister) of Ptolemy V.
A synod of priests held at Memphis.....transferred all honours that Ptolemy V had received...(written on the Rosetta stone) to his wife.
Cleopatra I was appointed vizier and upon her husband's death....she ruled on behalf of her young son, Ptolemy VI.
Antiochus III the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
18. After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.
Antiochus then moved to Asia Minor, by land and by sea, to secure the coast towns which belonged to the remnants of Ptolemaic overseas dominions and the independent Greek cities. This enterprise earned him the antagonism of the Roman Republic, since Smyrna and Lampsacus appealed to the republic of the west, and the tension grew after Antiochus had in 196 BC established a footing in Thrace. The evacuation of Greece by the Romans gave Antiochus his opportunity, and he now had the fugitive Hannibal at his court to urge him on.
Antiochus III the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
19. Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.
Antiochus invaded Greece with a 10,000 man army, and was elected the commander in chief of the Aetolian League....however, the Romans under Manius Acilius Glabrio routed him at Thermopylae, forcing him to withdraw to Asia Minor. The Romans followed up their success by invading Anatolia, and the decisive victory of Scipio Asiaticus at Magnesia ad Sipylum...following the defeat of Hannibal at sea off Side, delivered Asia Minor into their hands.
...Antiochus III attempted to pillage a temple of the god Ba’al in Elam, proving his previous actions in Ecbatana were not at all atypical. The underlying motive was again undoubtedly pecuniary. Following the treaty of Apamea, Antiochus III badly needed coin and bullion to pay the Roman indemnity. He had already paid two down payments together totaling 3000 silver talents, but now was required to produce 1000 silver talents per year for the next twelve years.
The war with Rome had no doubt been expensive, and his tactical defeats in Greece and Asia Minor meant that he would have had little booty to offset his costs.
Native Temples and Predatory Rule in the Seleucid Empire (Working Paper) | Michael Taylor - Academia.edu
...the Seleucid king abandoned all the country north of the Taurus, which the Roman Republic distributed amongst its local allies. As a consequence of this blow to the Seleucid power, the outlying provinces of the empire, recovered by Antiochus, reasserted their independence. Antiochus mounted a fresh eastern expedition in Luristan, where he died while pillaging a temple of Bel at Elymaïs, Persia.
Antiochus III the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Seleucus IV Philopator
20. Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.
Antiochus died....on another expedition to the east, where he sought to extract money to pay the indemnity.....The reign of his son and successor Seleucus IV Philopator..... largely spent in attempts to pay the large indemnity, and Seleucus was ultimately assassinated by his minister Heliodorus.
Seleucid Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
OH WOW I CAN NOT BELIEVE I AM TRYING TO DO THIS
do i have to go through
Antiochus Epiphanes - 11:21-32
and The Maccabees - 11:32-35
to GET TO HEROD.....arg.
Seleucus IV Philopator
20. Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.
Antiochus died....on another expedition to the east, where he sought to extract money to pay the indemnity.....The reign of his son and successor Seleucus IV Philopator..... largely spent in attempts to pay the large indemnity, and Seleucus was ultimately assassinated by his minister Heliodorus.
Seleucid Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
"was assassinated, probably by his brother Antiochus IV."
Daniel 11 - Antiochus and Antichrist Revisited < click
Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes - Seleucus Philopater succeeded his father Antiochus. He sent his treasurer Heliodorus to seize the money deposited in the temple of Jerusalem, which is here called the glory of the kingdom, see 2 Maccabees 9:23. He was so cramped to pay the annual tax to the Romans, that he was obliged to burden his subjects with continual taxes.
He shall be destroyed, neither in anger - fighting against an enemy, nor in battle - at the head of his troops; but basely and treacherously, by the hand of Heliodorus his treasurer, who hoped to reign in his stead. - Adam Clarke
........
Daniel 11
Antiochus Epiphanes - 11:21-32
Daniel 11
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
In his estate shall stand up a vile person - This was Antiochus, surnamed Epiphanes - the Illustrious. They did not give him the honor of the kingdom: he was at Athens, on his way from Rome, when his father died; and Heliodorus had declared himself king, as had several others. But Antiochus came in peaceably, for he obtained the kingdom by flatteries. He flattered Eumenes, king of Pergamus, and Attalus his brother, and got their assistance. He flattered the Romans, and sent ambassadors to court their favor, and pay them the arrears of the tribute. He flattered the Syrians, and gained their concurrence; and as he flattered the Syrians, so they flattered him, giving him the epithet of Epiphanes - the Illustrious. But that he was what the prophet here calls him, a vile person, is fully evident from what Polybius says of him, from Athenians, lib. v.: "He was every man's companion: he resorted to the common shops, and prattled with the workmen: he frequented the common taverns, and ate and drank with the meanest fellows, singing debauched songs," etc., etc. On this account a contemporary writer, and others after him, instead of Epiphanes, called him Epimanes - the Madman. - Adam Clarke
see also Josephus:
INTRODUCTION
http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-pref.htm < click
The History Of The Destruction Of Jerusalem
Book I
CONTAINING THE INTERVAL OF ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN YEARS.
FROM THE TAKING OF JERUSALEM BY ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES, TO THE DEATH OF HEROD THE GREAT.
http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-1.htm < click
20. Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.
Antiochus died....on another expedition to the east, where he sought to extract money to pay the indemnity.....The reign of his son and successor Seleucus IV Philopator..... largely spent in attempts to pay the large indemnity, and Seleucus was ultimately assassinated by his minister Heliodorus.
Seleucid Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
"was assassinated, probably by his brother Antiochus IV."
Daniel 11 - Antiochus and Antichrist Revisited < click
Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes - Seleucus Philopater succeeded his father Antiochus. He sent his treasurer Heliodorus to seize the money deposited in the temple of Jerusalem, which is here called the glory of the kingdom, see 2 Maccabees 9:23. He was so cramped to pay the annual tax to the Romans, that he was obliged to burden his subjects with continual taxes.
He shall be destroyed, neither in anger - fighting against an enemy, nor in battle - at the head of his troops; but basely and treacherously, by the hand of Heliodorus his treasurer, who hoped to reign in his stead. - Adam Clarke
........
Daniel 11
Antiochus Epiphanes - 11:21-32
Daniel 11
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
In his estate shall stand up a vile person - This was Antiochus, surnamed Epiphanes - the Illustrious. They did not give him the honor of the kingdom: he was at Athens, on his way from Rome, when his father died; and Heliodorus had declared himself king, as had several others. But Antiochus came in peaceably, for he obtained the kingdom by flatteries. He flattered Eumenes, king of Pergamus, and Attalus his brother, and got their assistance. He flattered the Romans, and sent ambassadors to court their favor, and pay them the arrears of the tribute. He flattered the Syrians, and gained their concurrence; and as he flattered the Syrians, so they flattered him, giving him the epithet of Epiphanes - the Illustrious. But that he was what the prophet here calls him, a vile person, is fully evident from what Polybius says of him, from Athenians, lib. v.: "He was every man's companion: he resorted to the common shops, and prattled with the workmen: he frequented the common taverns, and ate and drank with the meanest fellows, singing debauched songs," etc., etc. On this account a contemporary writer, and others after him, instead of Epiphanes, called him Epimanes - the Madman. - Adam Clarke
see also Josephus:
INTRODUCTION
http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-pref.htm < click
The History Of The Destruction Of Jerusalem
Book I
CONTAINING THE INTERVAL OF ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN YEARS.
FROM THE TAKING OF JERUSALEM BY ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES, TO THE DEATH OF HEROD THE GREAT.
http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-1.htm < click
Antiochus Epiphanes
Daniel 11
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
"Antiochus did not lead a bloody coup, but he obtained “the kingdom by flatteries.” Edward J. Young writes, “By flattery he won over the kings of Pergamus to his cause, and the Syrians gave in peaceably” (The Prophecy of Daniel, Grand Rapids: Eerdmands, 1977, p. 241)"
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
"And with the arms of a flood - The arms which were overflown before him were his competitors for the crown. They were vanquished by the forces of Eumenes and Attalus; and were dissipated by the arrival of Antiochus from Athens, whose presence disconcerted all their measures.
The prince of the covenant - This was Onias, the high priest, whom he removed, and put Jason in his place, who had given him a great sum of money; and then put wicked Menelaus in his room, who had offered him a larger sum. Thus he acted deceitfully in the league made with Jason." - Adam Clarke
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
"He shall come up - From Rome, where he had been a hostage for the payment of the tax laid on his father.
Shall become strong with a small people - At first he had but few to espouse his cause when he arrived at Antioch, the people having been greatly divided by the many claimants of the crown; but being supported by Eumenes and Attalus, his few people increased, and he became strong." - Adam Clarke
As the son and a potential successor of King Antiochus III, Antiochus became a political hostage of the Roman Republic following the Peace of Apamea in 188 BC. When his older brother, Seleucus IV followed his father onto the throne in 187 BC, Antiochus was exchanged for his nephew Demetrius I Soter (the son and heir of Seleucus). After King Seleucus was assassinated by Heliodorus, a usurper, in 175 BC, Antiochus in turn ousted him.
Since Seleucus' legitimate heir, Demetrius I Soter, was still a hostage in Rome, Antiochus, with the help of King Eumenes II of Pergamum, seized the throne for himself, proclaiming himself co-regent for another son of Seleucus, an infant named Antiochus (whom he then murdered a few years later).
Antiochus IV Epiphanes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
Daniel 11
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
"Antiochus did not lead a bloody coup, but he obtained “the kingdom by flatteries.” Edward J. Young writes, “By flattery he won over the kings of Pergamus to his cause, and the Syrians gave in peaceably” (The Prophecy of Daniel, Grand Rapids: Eerdmands, 1977, p. 241)"
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
"And with the arms of a flood - The arms which were overflown before him were his competitors for the crown. They were vanquished by the forces of Eumenes and Attalus; and were dissipated by the arrival of Antiochus from Athens, whose presence disconcerted all their measures.
The prince of the covenant - This was Onias, the high priest, whom he removed, and put Jason in his place, who had given him a great sum of money; and then put wicked Menelaus in his room, who had offered him a larger sum. Thus he acted deceitfully in the league made with Jason." - Adam Clarke
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
"He shall come up - From Rome, where he had been a hostage for the payment of the tax laid on his father.
Shall become strong with a small people - At first he had but few to espouse his cause when he arrived at Antioch, the people having been greatly divided by the many claimants of the crown; but being supported by Eumenes and Attalus, his few people increased, and he became strong." - Adam Clarke
As the son and a potential successor of King Antiochus III, Antiochus became a political hostage of the Roman Republic following the Peace of Apamea in 188 BC. When his older brother, Seleucus IV followed his father onto the throne in 187 BC, Antiochus was exchanged for his nephew Demetrius I Soter (the son and heir of Seleucus). After King Seleucus was assassinated by Heliodorus, a usurper, in 175 BC, Antiochus in turn ousted him.
Since Seleucus' legitimate heir, Demetrius I Soter, was still a hostage in Rome, Antiochus, with the help of King Eumenes II of Pergamum, seized the throne for himself, proclaiming himself co-regent for another son of Seleucus, an infant named Antiochus (whom he then murdered a few years later).
Antiochus IV Epiphanes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
Angela:
can you look at this in the greek and see what it is saying exactly? purdy pleeze sis
(zone is determined to start learning greek)
Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
and likewise here:
Revelation 3
8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
it's the words jews i'm interested in, obviously.
what is the Spirit saying exactly?
all i have to look at right now is Thayer's.
is it just simply that Jesus is saying at that point anybody identifying as a jew (in this case Herod, those who fell away under him) who had rejected Him is just apostate?
Thayer's seems to be saying when joined to a noun it's Israel, when not it's a broader application (i.e: religion; affiliation).
is that right?
k....2nd coffee.
can you look at this in the greek and see what it is saying exactly? purdy pleeze sis
(zone is determined to start learning greek)
Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
and likewise here:
Revelation 3
8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
it's the words jews i'm interested in, obviously.
what is the Spirit saying exactly?
all i have to look at right now is Thayer's.
is it just simply that Jesus is saying at that point anybody identifying as a jew (in this case Herod, those who fell away under him) who had rejected Him is just apostate?
Thayer's seems to be saying when joined to a noun it's Israel, when not it's a broader application (i.e: religion; affiliation).
is that right?
k....2nd coffee.
"Οἶδά σου τὴν θλῖψιν καὶ τὴν πτωχείαν, ἀλλὰ πλούσιος εἶ, καὶ τὴν βλασφημίαν ἐκ τῶν λεγόντων Ἰουδαίους εἶναι ἑαυτούς, καὶ οὐκ εἰσίν, ἀλλὰ συναγωγὴ τοῦ Σατανᾶ." Rev. 2:9
"ἰδοὺ διδῶ ἐκ τῆς συναγωγῆς τοῦ Σατανᾶ, τῶν λεγόντων ἑαυτοὺς Ἰουδαίους εἶναι, καὶ οὐκ εἰσὶν ἀλλὰ ψεύδονται— ἰδοὺ ποιήσω αὐτοὺς ἵναἥξουσιν καὶ προσκυνήσουσιν ἐνώπιον τῶν ποδῶν σου, καὶ γνῶσιν ὅτι ἐγὼ ἠγάπησά σε.' Rev. 3:9
"τῶν λεγόντων Ἰουδαίους εἶναι ἑαυτούς," Rev. 2:8
"τῶν λεγόντων ἑαυτοὺς Ἰουδαίους εἶναι," Rev. 3:9
These two verses refer obviously to the exact same thing -
"the ones, declaring (or calling/saying) to be themselves Jews" or "calling themselves to be Jews."
BUT as the Greek says, "καὶ οὐκ εἰσὶν ἀλλὰ ψεύδονται"
"and are not but lie"
Remind me to get back to context in a day or two when I have lots of study tools.
So in essence, they are pretending to be Jews, but are not! In fact, both verses say they are the synagogue of Satan.