THE HOLINESS OF GOD IS WITHOUT COMPROMISE, --- so how did sin invade mankind?

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Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
212
12
18
#1
Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.
--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,649
449
83
#2
So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world?
He had some other, higher or more important reasons to allow sin.

One can be - He wanted to have many sons through Christ.

Another can be - He wanted us to be holy after we knew what it is to be unholy, so that we will not be naive or silly like Eve. We got experience.
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
52
48
#3
Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.
--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?
is love real when it has no option other than to choose to love you?

God didn't allow sin into the world, He allowed us to choose. Him and all His wonders, or Death and sin. man was stupid an chose sin, but God already had a plan because He knew there would be those that would choose to love Him over sin.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#4
GOD made man in his own image. GOD has free will. Man chose of his own free will to let sin enter the world. It's man's fault.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
1,392
155
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#5
It is who God is that makes everything else the way it appears.
God is truth and He is also the savior from the beginning- it follows that He must save if He is truth truth, if He doesn't then we call Him a liar; God forbid.

If God is perfect, everything else must be imperfect- don't you get it?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,649
449
83
#6
GOD made man in his own image. GOD has free will. Man chose of his own free will to let sin enter the world. It's man's fault.
Will this free will of men, angels and other beings produce new and new falls and rebelions against God for eternity?

If not, why?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,685
231
63
#7
Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.
--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?
It seems God wants us to make a choice.

duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

We have God's Holiness, His Words and Instructions, and we have everything else.

We are to choose. And given we have all already chosen death over life, He has made arrangements to give us another chance at the choice.

This time we know the penalty, we know the score. Do we still choose death? Jesus said most would, but we don't have to. We can choose the narrow Path with "few" on it and if we really believe His Words, that is the choice we will make. but we must first believe Him.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
1,551
37
48
#8
Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.
--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?
How sin startet? This is a question which only God our father really knows. I would say he had not revealed it to us, because its not important for us to know. How it came into our world we can read in Genesis 3. And how sin can be forgiven we can read f.e. in the Gospel of John and in Romans.
Clear is, without Jesus no forgiven Sin. With this we are holy in Gods eyes.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
680
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#9
Will this free will of men, angels and other beings produce new and new falls and rebelions against God for eternity?

If not, why?
Great question that I don't have the answer to, but I don't think it will happen. In my opinion that is what the lake of fire will be for - to remind everyone what the end of rebellion is. IMO it will be before the throne of GOD.

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:24

And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind. Revelation 4:6

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mixed with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Revelation 15:2
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,649
449
83
#10
Great question that I don't have the answer to, but I don't think it will happen. In my opinion that is what the lake of fire will be for - to remind everyone what the end of rebellion is. IMO it will be before the throne of GOD.

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:24

And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind. Revelation 4:6

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mixed with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Revelation 15:2
Satan and angels knew and know about their end in the lake of fire and still they decided to rebel.

So... just a fear of punishment is not sufficient.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
680
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#11
Satan and angels knew and know about their end in the lake of fire and still they decided to rebel.

So... just a fear of punishment is not sufficient.
What evidence do you have to support that claim?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,942
637
113
#12
So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?
God created men and angels to be free moral agents, and He had His own reasons for doing this. It was this freedom to choose between obedience and disobedience that allowed Lucifer to become Satan and allowed Adam and Eve to disobey and be cast out of Eden. However, sin and evil will not remain forever, and there will be a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness. In the meantime all men are commanded to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and all Christians are commanded to take the Gospel to every creature.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,649
449
83
#13
What evidence do you have to support that claim?

"...devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."
Rev 12:12

"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" Mt 8:29

And logic - they are not stupid and they have much more information than we have. They are beings from higher dimensions.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
680
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#14

"...devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."
Rev 12:12

"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" Mt 8:29

And logic - they are not stupid and they have much more information than we have. They are beings from higher dimensions.
Those things were said after the angels rebelled. So there is no evidence that they knew their destiny before they did. I'm sure they thought at some point that they would overthrow GOD.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,649
449
83
#15
Those things were said after the angels rebelled. So there is no evidence that they knew their destiny before they did. I'm sure they thought at some point that they would overthrow GOD.
Any evidence for it?

Even we, humans, using proper philosophy and logic can define God as a being that is impossible to overthrow.

You have quite a low view of angels who were in heaven and of their knowledge.
 

JB2018

Senior Member
Jan 17, 2018
239
20
18
#16
God did not make sin. How could he when there is no sin in him? Sin entered into the world through the disobedience of Adam and Eve. But of course they were tempted by the devil.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
212
12
18
#17
Thanks for the responses. --- I will continue with some short numbered posts on this topic, which can be easily referenced as we continue for discussion. Blessings

2. There is an explanation in the Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary on “The origin of sin” that says, Quote: “God is love” and “God is holy.” Because love is His predominating characteristic, God desired to surround His throne with creatures whom He might love, and by whom He might be loved. Because of His holiness these creatures must also be holy; and by logical necessity love and holiness cannot be forced. Compulsory love or holiness would not be either love or holiness, and could not satisfy the all-wise Creator. Therefore, these loving and holy creatures must be endowed with the ability to choose whether “to glorify God and enjoy Him forever,” or to reject Him and suffer the consequences.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,942
637
113
#18
Will this free will of men, angels and other beings produce new and new falls and rebelions against God for eternity?
Surely you have read about the New Heavens and the New Earth.
 

CS1

Moderator
Staff member
May 23, 2012
2,781
310
83
#19
Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.
--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?
the idea that God allowed sin to happen is in some way for one to question His holiness is very serious ground to tread. I for one would not do that. Today there is much hostility to God standard ( Holliness) and His word too. They go hand in hand . those who question Gods Holliness do so pridefully and without reverence for the All Powerful God. The Audacity of the willingness to call into question Gods Holiness is why there are so many self-obsorbed people in the church today.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,358
91
48
#20
Hi Friends, I would like to start this subject, which you might also have questions or comments on. --- It is interesting today that we hear so much about the signs of the times in prophecy, and we need to be aware of the times we live in; where it seems that on every level man is opposed to man. --- So where did animosity start? --- And with whatever we see on earth, it ultimately leads us back to God.
--- The Bible teaches that God is Holy, and Holiness is an absolute, so it cannot be compromised. --- It says in Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all men, and Holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” --- So if God demands Holiness from us, why did He allow sin in the world? And how did it start?
It is called choice for God's kingdom is true love,and if we do not have a choice then His kingdom is not true love.

Some people make bad choices because they like to sin.

That is why the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in the garden of Eden that God told them to not eat of it,because they had to have choice.

And it would of never entered their mind to sin and eat of that tree unless an outside source tempted them.

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve,and she sinned,and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she did not die,and he sinned.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The angels were created perfect in their ways until iniquity was found in them by rebelling because God gave them a choice.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

People have a choice.

Having a choice is the only way that God's kingdom can be true love,and the sin comes from people,and God said He is not tempted to sin,neither does He tempt people to sin,but they sin when they are led away with the lust of the flesh.

So God allows the good and the bad to happen for a certain amount of time,then He will allow the wicked to rebel against Him on a worldwide scale as they come together acknowledging a kingdom that believes in no personal God,which will happen in the future when the nations come together and try to establish peace on earth,and when they follow that kingdom then God can end this sin business on earth.

Then Jesus will rule on earth for 1000 years,and then the saints shall go to the New Jerusalem,new earth,new heaven,a place where sin has never been,and will never be,and sin and rebellion will never come up again,and the former earth,and heaven,will not be remembered,nor come to mind,so the saints,and angels,will remember nothing prior to the New Jerusalem.

If God did not give us a choice He would of not put people in the flesh,and allowed them to dwell on earth,for He would of cut out the earth,and went right to the New Jerusalem,or whatever He created for the saints,for without choice there is no purpose for people to be on earth.

For whether God created them to be with Him,and cut out the earth,or have them dwell on earth,the result is the same if they do not have a choice.

For if they do not have a choice concerning salvation then their faith is not real,their belief in God is not real,and their confession of Christ is not real,and their love,and hope,is not real,for it did not come from them,but from God.

And it is obvious we have a choice for people do good and bad exercising their choice.

And if God did not give us a choice then no one would sin on earth,and all people would be saved,for God would not condemn people that have no choice but to not believe.

Because we are in the flesh we can be saved if we sin,for all sin dwells in the flesh,and if we are right with God we can put off the flesh,and the soul is saved.

But an angel cannot be saved after they sinned because they cannot put off the sin,for when they sinned they tainted their entire being with no way to put it off.

God holiness is His holiness,and people sinning does not take away from His holiness,like a person's sin does not take away your righteousness if you are in Christ,for Jesus said it is how you think and act is how you are defined.